Does this celery coon actually post here...

How about I refute them all instead of just one?
Population studies are shit. I can show you studies where the average American who eats hot dogs and burgers is more B12 deficient than the average vegan. But then you will say "the average American eats like shit" and you'll be right. Perhaps the vegans ate like shit in those studies.
Anyway
>B12 and calcium
1 cup soy milk a day
>Zinc
Literally everywhere. I added a cup each of pasta, oats, chickpeas and baked beans in cronometer and got 150% as you said

I could go on. You can eat meat or be vegan and you can be unhealthy or healthy. Just plan your diet properly

>He cites the same bullshit studies funded by the USDA
Oy vey those pesky dietitians, wanting what is good for the goyim! Shut it all down! Only dairy and egg industry approved studies!
> that claim saturated fats and cholesterol are unhealthy.
>Claim
Loaded language, and false implication
>When that fails, he starts morally equivicating the death of farmed animals with the death of people.
Analogy≠equation
>He's also extremely autistic
Pot, kettle, etc

>1 cup of soy milk
You better make it two cups, because soy milk only gives 45% and 50% of the rda on calcium and b12 respectively. Unfortunately you're still vitamin a deficient.

>1 cup soy milk a day
You're gonna ignore those ncbi links that say YOU can't adsorb that shit very well? And 1 cup of soy milk doesn't even have 10% of your calcium RDA, you absolute ass.

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings user. I don't want to come across as smug. I only want what's best for you, the animals and the environment

>Pot, kettle, etc
Please explain what you mean by this.

...

There are soy milks with 125% DV B12 but who cares the pill is 2¢ a day and it's literally the only one you should be taking
>You're gonna ignore those ncbi links that say YOU can't adsorb that shit very well?
The B12 links are population studies, not mechanistic ones
> And 1 cup of soy milk doesn't even have 10% of your calcium RDA, you absolute ass.
Soy milk has literally the same calcium as cow milk, and other stuff like tahini and potatoes have it too

You're lying through your teeth about the soy milk as the picture the other user posted shows.

>the pill is 2¢ a day
What is the pill? Birth control?

>One cherrypicked picture is evidence!
>You don't know what you have in your fridge and the doctor lied about your "excellent" bloodwork results!
Ok you will I'll eat kebab tomorrow gnite

He's talking about B12 pills.

Even their super duper FORTIFIED Soy Milks aren't good enough for you. This fucking asshole told you you'd meet your calcium needs drinking 1 cup of this. He's a boldfaced liar.

How are B12 pills made? What's in them?

bacteria and sourced from bacteria cultures, according to a 2 second google search.

Hey vegans. Don't lie to me. How much fiber do you eat? If I was to go vegan I would consume 70 or more grams and that apparently can be too much fiber?

Prove those claims.

The supplement industry is completely unregulated, and is a way for industrial and chemical companies to unload byproduct waste material at a profit.

Just open up a b12 pill and show me the real food in there. Also, what type of bacteria? Is the bacteria alive or dead? Can it reproduce? Isn't bacteria a living organism? How much bacteria has to die for you?

You know what I'd like to see, a vegan who put their money where their mouth is when it comes to environmentalism.

You get up on your pedestal about the awful effects that mass scale animal farming has but neglect to take into account that especially for those in the northern hemisphere, every piece of food you eat has to be shipped in from some far away place.

Cutting down swathes of forest to make way for avocado farms and whatever other fad vegetable/grain that you need to eat ridiculous amounts of to meet your caloric needs and it all gets shipped across the world just so that you don't have to eat that locally produced beef (we're not all in the US or some other third world shithole, ethically farmed animal products, produced locally might I add, are not hard to come by.) or milk.

Your diet isn't helping anything or anyone. What do you think will happen to the animals when nobody wants to eat them anymore? They just won't exist period except as a rare novelty, the way of the horse.

Get off your fuckin high horse.

Oh and as for putting your money where your mouth is, get through the winter on bread and vegetable preserves and shrink that carbon footprint. It would be the morally superior diet.

Here's the mind of a liberal:
>We have to stop using paper, because we're running out of trees.
>We have to stop eating meat, because we're running out of animals.
>We will never run out of corn.
They can't grasp the idea that demand for paper trees and human-consumable livestock is actually what keeps these things around, no different from the consumability of corn.

Simply by not eating beef or drinking milk, a vegan is better than you. there's almost nothing a vegan can do to have a larger carbon footprint than a beef eater/milk drinker

>Cutting down swathes of forest to make way for avocado farms
I don't eat avocados

>whatever other fad vegetable/grain that you need to eat ridiculous amounts of to meet your caloric needs and it all gets shipped across the world
The fuck have you ever been to a grocery store? The chief portion of my calories are grown here in America. A lot of it from my very state.

>cutting down forests to make giant commercial farming fields and spraying the crops with chemicals which will inevitably get into the environment and water

Yeah, vegans totally dont cause any environmental damage.

Every vegan who has ever lived has consumed meat and milk at one point in their life or another. Tell me, if you had your way, would no one ever get to drink milk?

You vegan cucks ever going to shut up about morals? It's impossible for most people to ever give a care about livestock being butchered. If you want to convert people to your religion you should focus on shit that matters. This is a fitness board.

>vegans totally dont cause any environmental damage.

Have you ever thought how livestock gets fed?

More than half the U.S. grain and nearly 40 percent of world grain is being fed to livestock rather than being consumed directly by humans

>A: carrots
>D: sunlight

Do you really think everyone doesn't cringe at your low effort political cartoons? Get a new gimmick.

>guess which one got cancer...
>... three fucking times

Reminder that no matter how hypothetically local, eco-conscious, organic etc your diet is, a vegan diet by default is more environmentally friendly

That's called bad luck. You don't get testicle cancer from your fucking diet. Just like you don't get lung cancer from your fucking diet. Even Pete's doctors said so. You ready to claim that cancer specialists are conspiring against him with false information?

>You don't get testicle cancer from your fucking diet.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11857417

>cheese was most closely correlated with the incidence of testicular cancer at ages 20-39, followed by animal fats and milk. The correlation coefficient (r) was highest (r = 0.804) when calculated for cheese consumed during the period 1961-65 (maternal or prepubertal consumption).

WATCH ME EAT 20 BACON CHEESEBURGERS IN 10 SECONDS
.... hello guys this is Pete turns out I have testicular cancer.....

appeal to futility fallacy

Vitamin A: eating 2 cups of carrots, one cup of sweet potatoes or 2 cups of kale. This can be done as a SNACK. Vegan or not you should be able to get probably 3-4 times the RDI for vitamin A you need from plant sources alone.

Vitamin D: Sun for 15 minutes if you live in a place with enough exposure, this also comes fortified in plant based milks and extremely cheap supps ($5 a year) which I take so I dont have to buy fortified eggs/milks.

On a side note liver and organ meats accumulate way too many toxins and are for that reason not nearly as consumed as before. Also due to cultural stigma.

I'm not vegan but these arguments fall flat on their faces man cmon

>B12

Legitimate concern but not a legitimate criticism. Eat a fortified food or supplement B12.

>On paper, calcium intake is similar in vegetarians and omnivores (probably because both eat dairy products), but is much lower in vegans, who are often deficient.

Neither of your links talk about calcium deficiency. Without dairy, it's less likely that you'll hit the US goal of (I think) 1200mg/d, but the RDI set by the US is not necessarily the amount of calcium you need. Calcium RDIs vary around the world. The WHO recommends that in countries with high fracture rates, 400-500mg should be the minimum intake, while in countries with low fracture rates more than that isn't supported. They say there's a paradox because the countries with the highest fracture rates drink the most milk and get the most calcium, and that animal protein may work against calcium for bone health

who.int/dietphysicalactivity/publications/trs916/en/gsfao_osteo.pdf (section 5.7.5)

>Vegetarians and omnivores have similar levels of serum iron, but levels of ferritin—the long-term storage form of iron—are lower in vegetarians than in omnivores.
>This is significant, because ferritin depletion is the first stage of iron deficiency

Iron is a two edged sword. Lack of iron causes anemia of course, while too much iron can promote disease. Reducing iron stores lowers cancer and overall mortality risk

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18612130

Heme iron, the highly absorbable form found especially in red meats, is implicated as a major reason why red meat is associated with colorectal cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. Iron is a highly reactive metal that causes oxidative stress in higher amounts, and unlike plant iron for which we have mechanisms to limit absorption of, the absorption of heme is uncontrollable.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25592152
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3261306/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941820/

The idea that plant foods contain vitamin A is a common misconception. Plants contain beta-carotene, the precursor to active vitamin A (retinol). While beta-carotene is converted into vitamin A in humans, the conversion is inefficient.

I'm having trouble understanding. Are you saying that 2 cups of carrots, one cup of sweet potatoes or 2 cups of kale in a day is inefficient? That seems like a small amount needed to be eaten for such a large amount of vitamin A

>many plant foods that contain zinc also contain phytate, which inhibits zinc absorption.
>Thus, even when the diet meets or exceeds the RDA for zinc, deficiency may still occur. One study suggested that vegetarians may require up to 50% more zinc than omnivores for this reason.

Quoting your first link here, right from the abstract

>>The health consequences of lower iron and zinc bioavailability are not clear, especially in industrialized countries with abundant, varied food supplies, where nutrition and health research has generally supported recommendations to reduce meat and increase legume and whole-grain consumption. Although it is clear that vegetarians have lower iron stores, adverse health effects from lower iron and zinc absorption have not been demonstrated with varied vegetarian diets in developed countries, and moderately lower iron stores have even been hypothesized to reduce the risk of chronic diseases.

So there's your last two points. Phytate content can be reduced by certain methods of preparing and cooking food as well, but it should also be pointed out that phytates themselves have health benefits, and have been associated with stronger bones (adding to the earlier comments about calcium)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17044765
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16080543
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22905230

>near total lack of two fat-soluble vitamins: A and D.

Vitamin D is a hormone your body normally synthesizes in response to sunlight. Food is not a practical way to get vitamin D, you either get enough sunlight, take a vitain D supplement (very common), or you don't get enough vitamin D.
As for vitamin A

>The idea that plant foods contain vitamin A is a common misconception. Plants contain beta-carotene, the precursor to active vitamin A (retinol). While beta-carotene is converted into vitamin A in humans, the conversion is inefficient.

It's a bit misleading to say the conversion is inefficient. It can be inefficient, because your body converts beta-carotene to meet its needs, converting less when the diet contains more vitamin A and converting more when no dietary retinol is taken. Retinol of course is toxic in higher amounts, while beta-carotene is benign and actually helpful in preventing disease by its antioxidant nature

nature.com/articles/srep26983

Like with heme iron, we have little way of dealing with an overload of vitamin A. Kind of bringing up calcium again, the vitamin A content of milk is something Harvard cites as a reason for why they don't recommend drinking milk to get calcium anymore

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-and-milk/

So, like with heme iron, it's something where on the surface it looks like "this nutrient absorbs better" or "this nutrient is already pre-formed for my body to use" but in reality it comes with risks, whereas obtaining it from plants is much safer and has added benefits.

>unsheathes multivitamin
>teleports behind you
hheh... nothing personnel kid

webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/news/20131216/experts-dont-waste-your-money-on-multivitamins
bbc.com/future/story/20161208-why-vitamin-supplements-could-kill-you
t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/stop-taking-multivitamins

Disproving vegan shit is like saying there's no god. Nobody here is a fucking scientists, nobody here knows shit.

We must summon

HAHAHAHAHAHA

No, but many here have a reasonable IQ, along with the ability to share and scrutinize multiple studies to draw collective conclusions.

>Disproving vegan shit is like saying there's no god.
Probably the most divergent comparison you could have possibly made, good job buddy...

...

lmgtfy.com/?q=what does b12 do

It's not even about their diet. Just the fact you participate in a modern lifestyle means you directly contribute to the destruction of nature and the planet.

it hurts to share veganism with retards like this

B12 deficiency is a species-wide problem, not just a vegan problem; everyone should supplement B12. Please stop parroting shit you've heard on random buzzfeed articles

arent both those things true though?

Anyone eating a healthy diet with a balanced amount of meat, dairy and eggs will not be B12 deficient.

>Vegans everyone
Chemotherapy does kill cells, 100%, but it doesn't kill you unless you doctor severely fucks up.
Think of it like a day surgery, a doctor is slicing you up with a scalpel, but no serious harm will come to you unless the doctor fucks up.

Menstruation is an essential and natural part of the female reproductive system, when a woman stops menstruating there is something severely wrong with her body.

Guys, serious question here. If a vegan can't eat anything that has a part of an animal in it like a bread with eggs in it or a chocolate bar with milk than how does he spot the difference between vegan and not vegan food?
I mean, if a mice died under the tree and then this tree suck water and other stuff from the ground, then technically apples from that tree can have small parts of that mice, right? Are atoms of mice's body vegan?

Sorry for my english.

if your diet requires vitamins to be balanced then it was shit from the start

> how does he spot the difference between vegan and not vegan food?

By reading the ingredients list. Second part of your question I can't believe is genuine.

>Anyone eating a healthy diet with a balanced amount of meat, dairy and eggs will not be B12 deficient.
Eggs are King

Most vegan products market themselves as such and are priced exorbitantly higher.

There is no system in place to prevent animals from being killed or harmed by the methods and equipment used to cultivate and harvest vegan foods.

Yeah like bananas and rice, those things are hella expensive

They're not marketed as vegan.

Anything marketed as vegan gets a price increase, like almond milk, or vegan baked goods, or vegan imitation meat, etc.
They also tend to be deficient in cartinine which is essential for muscle development and cognitive function, which explains a lot of vegans.

>I can't believe is genuine
It pretty much is. How much of some kind of an animal's molecular mass in your meal is considered as vegan?

Man if I could just eat some kind of mixture between the two of these for the rest of my life. I would satiated.

Eggs are actually a terrible source of B12, the absorption is in the area of 9%

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17959839

And of course B12 is a nutrient. We want nutrients so that we can be healthy. It doesn't make sense to get your nutrients from sources that, overall, promote disease.

>They also tend to be deficient in cartinine which is essential for muscle development and cognitive function, which explains a lot of vegans.

Let's go ahead and get that citation

Most if not all B12, Cartinine and other vitamins that are lacking in vegan diets do not have vegan friendly supplements.

If you take any such supplement, I'd bet money you're not as vegan as you thought you were.

yeah I know, I just wanted to take the opportunity to make a point

>They also tend to be deficient in cartinine which is essential for muscle development and cognitive function, which explains a lot of vegans.
Not sure about this though senpai

The bioavailability of B12 in eggs is 9%

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Carnitine-HealthProfessional/

Speak to a nutritionist before taking a meme diet friends.

Did you read this before you posted? Nowhere does it say that vegans are carnitine deficient. It says

>The body makes sufficient carnitine to meet the needs of most people

Outside of people with rare genetic defects, you shouldn't need to eat or supplement carnitine.

If you're a meat eater who harbors the wrong bacteria in his gut, dietary carnitine may even be increasing your risk of heart disease

nature.com/nm/journal/v19/n5/full/nm.3145.html

The only thing non-vegans have on vegans is B12, but you can counter that by taking B12 or eating B12 fortified foods. Also mushrooms have small amounts of B12 as well.

I am sure you know that B12 is not from plants nor animals, but from the environment, which due to the sanitized lifestyle we lead has been hard to acquire.

You do realise that American Health Association, Cancer, etc. take big money from dairy and the meat industry? And due to your idiotic system of healthcare profit is incentivised.

The misinformation is the basis of their strategy, to make money. This was the case with the Tobacco Industry, they spread confusion. You can literally find conflicting studies.

Kill me.

This is also a misconception. Not all vegans are tree huggers. But you have to understand the simple fact of animal farming, the antibiotics that goes into the meat, the diseases, animals standing in their own shit and piss. That does not seem like fresh and good meat.

Eat meat, by all means you are killing yourself, I do not give a fuck. But animal husbandry can be done efficiently and in a healthier way.

Another example, corn is mostly fed to animals and not to people.

To refute your point, growing your food in your own backyard is quite possible. By using newer techniques you can let go of spending money on food.

Also there is not enough of a consumer base to get other governments to raze forests (which they unfortunately do, I agree). Most razed forests are used for animal husbandry, as that requires more room.

I do this lol, what is wrong about this?

Liberals are cancer.

see

ooooh

Holy shit. Eat 4x more meat and drink more milk please, I do beg you. Eat yourself to death.

>muh doctor said it
US doctors especially are in the business of making money off of your problems.

What a fucking retard. Just as much as the half-black dude.

Retinol toxicity level are around 3000 mg/die, so the risk of hypervitaminosis A is basically zero. Beta carotene is always less bioavaiable than retinol (m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/96/5/1193S.full)
It is true that beta carotene is unharmful, the only side effect is that it accumulate in the skin and gives you an orange coloration

Retinol, as a fat soluble vitamin, also accumulates, and can cause health problems without symptoms of acute toxicity.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16469975

>Beta carotene is always less bioavaiable than retinol

Sure, but speaking practically, it doesn't matter. The point is that the most bioavailable, pre-formed option doesn't necessarily mean the best option for health when factoring in the overall effects of the food and the nutrient's interactions with the human body.

sure, vegan faggot, of course you do

first off, animals don't have a concept of life. they function on pure instinct. they don't worry about dying one day because they don't realise they are living at all. they just do what feels natural. to actually be able to notice that you are alive, you will have to be able to ask questions. animals and humans up to the age of 3 years old don't do that. if they insta dies, they don't feel anything. vegans being mad about killing animals in a humane way is basically saying "stop this, I feel bad. this hurts MY feelings." it doesn't hurt the animal in any way because it dies instantly. the only argument that makes sense is the environmental one. but then it's up to personal choice and culture. personally, I'd like to waste a little food for better food. if you want to be vegan because of the diet, then that's ok. if you want to be vegan because you think you actually change something, then you're wrong. you're just being fucking annoying. they won't stop producing the exact same amount of meat because you personally stopped. for every vegan that is created, there are probably a million meat eaters that are created. the meat production would only increase anyway, so why care about that? because you went vegan doesn't mean everyone else went vegan as well. stop being annoying.

no one doing it properly is hurting animals in any way. in a sense, animals live a better life because of us. in the wild they'd die of violent causes. from predators, injuries and diseases etc. no animal will die of old age in the wild. imagine being a teen wild pig in the woods, then a fucking wolf grabs your neck and rips it open with his bare teeth. imagine lying there dying slowly and painfully as the wolf is eating you while you're still alive. then we have the alternative. living a long and healthy life while eating tasty food, fucking hot pig bitches while only having to lie and chill in the mud your whole life. then after many years of pleasure, you get transported to a place where they kill you so fast you don't even have the time to realise you just died. which is better for the animals pleasure? which were you fighting for again? the one where they die slowly and horribly in a ditch in the woods? why are vegans so cruel to animals?

granted though, many animals in the west are slaughtered horribly. like chickens. personally, I only buy chicken and meat in general where I know that the animals haven't been "tortured". I am also against killing dogs in the way they do is Asia. that's brutal. they steal dogs from people and then proceeds to boil them alive until they die. I would not mind if they raised the dogs at a farm, and killed in instantly and humanely when that time comes. it's too bad they don't though.

that doesn't make sense as a response... are you okay?

He looks fucking terrible.

Is this supposed to be a good example of vegan 'gains'? It's funny that all of the allegedly ripped/shredded vegan lifters they trot out have been omnivores for most of their lives. Certainly, most of their lifting careers.

vegan logic
>take animals living in paradise their whole lives
>send them back to nature where they die horribly and violently in a ditch with a wolf's teeth around their bleeding and broken neck.
>gets mad when humans kill them instantly with precise robots
and they ask meat eaters why they are so violent?

it's the only good argument for a nationwide veganism. it's a bad argument for personal choice though.

it would make more sense that the guy eating the food that made animals "toxic" gets the most toxic himself.

You are beyond retarded, holy shit.
Your pic doesn't even mention vitamin B or D quantities or even calcium.

Pic related.
Also fortified cereals have pretty much every nutrient there is.

Anything with introduced B12 that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars isn't vegan.

That spine

Besides veganism videos he's actually pretty cool. I thought that he would be some kind of leftie, but he hates black lives matter, islam and all that sjw bullshit

Same, i don't like/care about him being vegan but i still watch the videos

b12 is literally from bacteria, vegan diet is a diet that reduces the suffering and death of animals as much as possible, so b12 reinforced foods are vegan

Also, how does that disprove the fact that it is ridiculously easy to get enough vitamin B12 and calcium from soy milk?
I just pour 500ml in a bowl with two handfulls of cereals and I have all my main vitamins for the entire day, even toddlers can do this shit.

Does any vegan here actually lift weights? Didn't think so.

It can possibly come from bacteria, but not in economically harvestable amounts.
Anything that lists B12 as an ingredient means it was fortified with B12.
Anything fortified with B12 and not marked as vegan will contain animal products.

You fucked up.