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If animal products are healthy for me, why do I have to limit their consumption to avoid certain diseases?

You're an omnivore, this means you're _capable_ of obtaining nutrients from both plant and animal sources, this doesn't mean you _have to_.

Humans have been eating fruits, grains and legumes since the Paleolithic era, actually. Humans didn't invent the plants that are used in agriculture, they existed and were edible before then.

If water is healthy for me, why do I have to limit it's consumption to avoid death?

because of government dietary """guidelines""".

I have to if I want to be fookin swole m8

Have we evolved also because of animal products? Yes

Do we still need meat to survive? No

Is meat detrimental to the environment (and to some degree to our health)? Unfortunately yes

Draw your own conclusion

It's almost like you have to take everything in moderation

>vaccines and modern medicine in general
>air conditioning
>heated water
>cooking food
>using cars and trains instead of walking on your own two feet for a measly 25 km
why do some people think they're smarter than millions of years of evolution?
And now that we've gotten the appeal to nature out of the way,
>evolution is smart
>implying evolution is anything other than a glorified dna bogosort
Barely smarter than a creationist.

No you don't.

False equivalence.

The government should be abolished, I agree.

Why can I eat as much fruit and vegetables as I want but I have to limit my meat consumption?

What's wrong with low fat?

Yup

>False equivalence
How though?

>all of the world record holders in any sport that matters are people who eat meat
>vegans pick out specially selected vegans who were only vegan for a very small fraction of their lives
>largest born vegan bodybuilder looks like a skelly compared to people like Phil Heath or Kai Greene
>on top of all of that, plant protein is still undeniably less efficient than protein found in meat

Water is necessary, meat is not

what's wrong with eating less of an essential macronutrient and eating more of a non-essential one instead? i wonder

Kendrick Farris
>He's not a *world record* holder though, he's only the strongest WLer in the US!
Patrick Baboumian
>N-now you're just cherrypicking!

>only *animal* fat is essential

none of these has an inherent adverse effect on your body. and cooking is part of our evolution, you cretin.

Vegetables and fruit aren't either. Especially considering the fact that fatties who eat shit food are not deficient meanwhile underweight or vegans are.

Strongest wler in a country with 4k wlers is nothing US is a literal joke in weightlifting

I wasn't objecting I am asking. Please elaborate why low fat milk is bad. What is missing? How bad is it?

>here is a record holder that got gold in the pan American championships, turned vegan 6 years later, and continued not to medal for literally any championship since turning vegan
LOL
Same for Patrick. A majority of his training was done as a meat eater

>none of these has an inherent adverse effect on your body
Neither does veganism, inherently.
>and cooking is part of our evolution
I take cooking back, the rest still stand.
>Fiber is unnecessary
>Vitamins are unnecessary
5/10 made me reply
Your point?

>>Fiber is unnecessary
well, technically......
>>Vitamins are unnecessary
name one (1) vitamin present in plants that is absent from animals

>A majority of his training was done as a meat eater
Terrible argument. If veganism was inherently bad for gains he'd have lost size and strength. Maintaining strength and size is as hard as gaining it, you'd know that if you squatted above 2 plate

>well, technically......
What?
>name one (1) vitamin present in plants that is absent from animals
I'd say C but cbf to google it, that's not the point. I can make the exact same argument for plants vs animals, so this results in a tie at best. But animal products cause (way more) death and suffering to animals, so you lose.

what the hell do you mean "millions of years of evolution"
you think everybody has eaten the same diet for "millions of years"?

>C
organ meats. done.
>animal products cause (way more) death and suffering to animals, so you lose
why are you under the impression that that's relevant to this thread?

Have you never talked with a paleolarper?

The OP isn't relevant to fitness either but you don't complain

The point is being the best in a joke nation with the help of anabolics is not an accomplishment the guy didn't even get bronze. And female lifters of other countries lift almost as much as US male lifters maybe they should start eating more meat.
>so you lose
Post body hot vegan teen

the fitness industry is rife with veganism and low fat bullshit, and there's a soylent thread in the catalog right now.

And you'd understand that gaining muscle is hard as fuck to do (without any """ supplements""") and doubly so on a vegan diet, if you had a bodyweight bigger than the average woman

Humans are herbivorous by nature, hence why we get atherosclerosis if we ingest too much cholesterol.

Can't believe a board named Veeky Forums is unaware of how detrimental animal product is for human consumption.

@42003151

subtle bait, you'll probably get a few (you)s

>The point is being the best in a joke nation with the help of anabolics is not an accomplishment
Other non-vegan US WLers roid too, so the playing field within the US confines is level. I really don't see your point. If eating meat is so good, then why is there not a single WLer in his weight class who can outlift him?
I'm not saying veganism makes you stronger, I'm saying it doesn't make you weaker
>post body
Don't have much to show yet bby, gimme 6 months. How about you post body + timestamp? Or don't because that has nothing to do with how good my argument or yours is.
Faggot.

But chicken breast isn't bad for cholesterol unless you eat ronnie coleman levels and fish even helps in reducing it.

Well no shit, i'm eating an apple right now. Doesn't mean my grand^30 father didn't hunt mammoths with his bros because it was the most cost effective thing before agriculture came around

rip

>Other non-vegan US WLers roid too, so the playing field within the US confines is level. I really don't see your point. If eating meat is so good, then why is there not a single WLer in his weight class who can outlift him?
I'm not saying veganism makes you stronger, I'm saying it doesn't make you weaker
m8 he didn't even get bronze the US is irrelevant no one cares that you can outlift retards, do you feel good about your sub 1pl8 bench because the average normie gym goer can't hit that?

>gimme 6 months.
i'll give you 6 years bbygurl maybe start the transitioning as well

>Don't have much to show yet bby, gimme 6 months.
lol v

>doubly so
>doubly so
How so?
inb4 "hurr I'm not eating 10kg spinach to meet my protein needs lol vegans btfo"
Seitan, tofu, tempeh, pb
inb4 "soy gives you bitchtits"
Estrogen gives you bitchtits
Beef and dairy contain estrogen
Soy contains PHYTOestrogen which has the same binding affinity to estrogen receptors in your body but orders of magnitude worse potency
inb4 "B12"
Nooch, fortified soymilk, if all else fails, supplement.
Fun fact: Red bull is vegan and has 80% RDA B12.
Waiting for someone to strawman my argument as "lol vegans relying on Red bull for B12"

>the fitness industry is rife with veganism and low fat bullshit
1) don't conflate veganism and low fat
2) there is nothing inherently wrong with veganism
>there's a soylent thread in the catalog right now.
report it and move on, no need to create another thread to whine

>Humans are herbivorous by nature, hence why we get atherosclerosis if we ingest too much cholesterol.

Even vegan SDA's touted as the healthiest population on earth die of heart disease, albeit at much less rates than there omnivorous counter parts

>do you feel good about your sub 1pl8 bench because the average normie gym goer can't hit that?
I bench 2 for 6 but nice projection

So you can bench 2 for 6 and don't show body, sure thing half repping harry.

>half repping
nice projection
>strength = size
nice meme

name one nutritional element that you cant get from plants that you need for muscle building and healthy living

So you're not posting pic and instead post a pic of an out of season meat eating Oly lifter that shits all over your vegan nigger.

>strength = size
You're right bro those few exceptions are the norm, people that bench 3 pl8 all look no different than your untrained sedentry skinnfat

gf

Just post body m8

b12

You haven't posted body either btw

read

A majority, if not all, of plant based foods are at the very most 30% protein while chicken breast is probably +90% protein.
Digestion of plant based proteins suck, and on top of that we can only absorb 50% of it
A simple 1500 calorie diet for cutting fat means at most protein you can consume without supplements is 112, assuming all you eat is beans all day
For losing weight on a caloric deficit (while keeping muscle), the average athlete should eat about 150 grams

Supplements don't count. If your diet was as healthy as you suggest, supplements shouldn't be needed

supplements are plants

Protein in the correct amounts. Read

*>

Why do you hate yourself so much that you'd go to such lengths to get essential nutrients?

>15% protein

gotta get all those WHOLE GRAINS my dude

Yes, you don't HAVE to. But your body will perform optimally when you do, because that's what it evolved to do.

Instead vegan niggas are over here like 'Oh yeah you can get calcium from the bungabunga bean and b12 from sucking off your dad' and all that shit.

No, just fucking eat meat and vegetables like your body wants you to you sickly looking motherfuckers.

Why are vegans so militant? A better and more reasonable request is to eat less meat. Nobody cares about dying animals. It's all holier than thou bullshit.

Your argument is essentially "muh ancestors tho".

Yeah, your ancestors also didn't live into their 40s so they did not get cardiovascular disease or cancers due to meat. The WHO classifies processed meat to be a class 1 carcinogen based on scientific research. Besides, grains (i.e carbs) was what allowed civilization to develop.

Just because we needed meat to survive thousands of years ago, does not mean we need to eat meat today. There are far better alternatives when it comes to health, the only good thing about meat is the taste.

Also, just because we can digest meat does not mean we should eat it. Cows are also able to digest meat and are also fed meat leftovers...

I'm not a vegan, I still eat meat but I try to limit my consumption as the scientific evidence is overwhelmingly against meat being "healthy".

Look, when the legions of vegans are not skinny DYEL idiots and are living 20/30+ longer than the rest of the population, then yes people will be inclined to agree. But as it stands they all just look sickly, skinny and weak.

>doesn't understand that life expectancy was so low becauseof child death
>thinks people didn't get older than 30
Didn't even read rest of your post. Fuck off back to re dd it asap

I'm not vegan but some of these people view animals as highly as any other life, it's only reasonable then to be vocal about not wanting them to be tortured.

I regularly shoot and eat rabbits so I am very much desensitized to that side of the argument, but you can't deny the benefits to our health and to the environment that comes with more vegans.

You don't have to lift either, oh wait you don't

What scientific evidence is there against Fish? Also if not for meat you would still be a monkey.

This. Life expectancy data has been provided as an average and has been skewed by infant mortality.

No, vegans won't help. Moderates will. Less meat consumption is a good idea. Veganism comes off as a religion

If this was Veeky Forums I'd call you out on having a low IQ for making jokes that poor

(you)

One that comes to mind is pollution. If you consume fish, you inevitably consume heavy metals. There are better alternatives to protein which contain little to none heavy metals.

Never argued against meat consumption of our ancestors. Yes, it had its place in our evolution, but we're talking about today with better alternatives where meat consumption causes more health problems than it does help.

Fish heavy metals comes from carnivorous fish you absolute monkey and that is also very limited and minimal. I feel embarrassed just talking to you, you sound like a literal leddit normie.

WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY ELIMINATED
that's not plausible

just like people won't stop eating junk food
meat is here to stay
work with that fact

and the healthiest diets
anyway for living longest is pescetarianism

apparently, applying evolutionary lore to our foods is "paleo nonsense" as the vegetarians would put it. These weasels and snakes are horrible people to deal with. I suggest that the mods ban most of these topics already, perhaps they did not have the misfortune to know what kind of creatures they are from dealing with them in this board. But they are horrible, they dont deserve to post on this board. They should all GTFO

>humans changed the accessibility of food in the last three hundred years more drastically than in the 3 million years before that
>food is now widely available and is no longer all one hundred percent natural
>implying this is the result of millions of years of evolution
Do you think there are doritos in nature

No, but the foods that do exist in nature still exist today (and are more widely availabe). Stupid post, my man.

>thousands of years
>how long did the ice age last I wonder

sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140402100056.htm

What do you think is a good human diet?

I would say
5% junk food (optional)
50% carbohydrates
>35% complex
>15% simple

15% fat
>no trans fat

30% protein
>mostly chicken and fish

no alcohol, red meat, sugar - that's all junk
no dairy

>50% carbohydrate

no
o

>Carbs are bad
My country is the living proof that they're not. We're one of the thinnest countries in europe despite the fact that the average guy eats pasta almost every single day.

Believe it or not, it's possible to be unhealthy without being overweight.

>A majority, if not all, of plant based foods are at the very most 30% protein while chicken breast is probably +90% protein.
Seitan, tofu and tempeh are all >30% protein, seitan is equal to chicken and tuna. And I haven't even touched mock meat products.
>Digestion of plant based proteins suck
source
>and on top of that we can only absorb 50% of it
source
>A simple 1500 calorie diet
How short are you? Normal people cut at 2000 at least
>for cutting fat means at most protein you can consume without supplements is 112, assuming all you eat is beans all day
...and assuming that your tdee is laughably low and assuming you don't eat higher protein vegan foods like the aforementioned ones
>For losing weight on a caloric deficit (while keeping muscle), the average athlete should eat about 150 grams
This is another assumption btw, source or fuck off

Fake food. Nothing wrong with meat in moderation.

>seitan, tofu and soymilk is "such lengths"
What

Vegetables, grains, legumes?

LOL

pastebin.com/RsaYNUrm

>Fake food
>coping this much

You're consuming a bunch of processed garbage because you think animals deserve more rights than you do. Vegans are more cucked than Louis CK.