All these shitty sticky routines

>the whole point of it is to turn the uninformed into the barely informed.
This is what pisses me off, though. If you're going to do something, you should do it as well as possible. When you teach someone carpentry you don't leave out a bunch of shit just because "Well it's complicated so don't worry about it"

You mean Harsh.
Yes, he's the biggest dyel ever. If you guys want a new sticky, would you as a board help create an updated sticky. Perhaps starting with a sticky general thread until the board agrees with the new sticky as a whole (more or less)?

I'm serious.

This is Harshs' lats at their best.

literally ignore sticky and do PPL

That's what the board should be for. Unfortunately people just post their SS and SL bullshit circlejerks and don't realise that they'd progress further if they put more effort into training. This board is complete garbage if you want to seriously get into lifting and 99% of the information posted here will set you back months if not years depending on how long you decide to believe it for. PLG would theoretically be okay if it wasn't 99.99% shitposts.

Letting Veeky Forums decide the contents of the sticky is the most retarded thing you could possibly do. The majority of this board unironically believes that you have to do SS until you can squat 4 plates for 3x5 otherwise if you try a high volume routine you'll "overtrain".

Honestly there's so much contradictory information floating around here, it's hard to know what the truth is. That's why I started out on plebbit, of all places. While they're all libtard neckbears, at least you get correct information more frequently than here.

took the words right out of my post
/r/fitness is almost as bad because they have the same culture of blind leading the blind, /r/weightroom is very good though

Sifting through all the broscience is half the fun though.

Hence creating a general until there is some agreement. All I'm reading is excuses and bitching. How do you expect to get a better sticky if not one of you faggots at least try. Do you think the original sticky magically appeared? Shit took a long time for that autist to create and Eventually be stickied by the mods.
This whole place gets such hard ons shitting on each other, it's far from a community that cared about bettering oneself. Enough to actually contribute and create something in a place that most of you lurk 24/7.

It depends on your fitness goals. Thats what most people don't get.
Read PP to be able to make your own routine based on your own goals.

ya

I'm doing stronglifts and it seems to be working, only been at it a mounth though.

When should I switch to intermediate

I agree, but it does build a decent base and after around 4 to 6 months you should be able to start noticing some weak points in the lifts and add accessories accordingly. Anyone who blindly follows any routine lift for lift is a dink.

read the sticky; disregard shitposters i.e. >42028913, >42029187

it's the fucking sticky for a reason

What's PP?

Practical programming i believe

I don't want a different sticky. The sticky is perfect for the purpose of making the transition from doing absolutely nothing to having some kind of idea about what to do as easy as possible. First and foremost, it makes fitness accessible to the average retard. That's important and certainly has a place.

If you really want to make something useful, create an advanced fitness general where people can discuss how to intelligently invest more of their time into lifting. Programming, volume discussion, frequency discussion, studies, diet discussion, fitness goal discussion etc all go there. No competitive focus (PL, BB, OW), just general discussion of fitness as a hobby. People who want to know how to get as big as possible with exactly 2 hours and 15 minutes of gym time per week can continue to post their SS/TM circlejerking, and everyone is happy.

Got it.

>If you really want to make something useful, create an advanced fitness general where people can discuss how to intelligently invest more of their time into lifting. Programming, volume discussion, frequency discussion, studies, diet discussion, fitness goal discussion etc all go there.
>advanced fitness general
Honestly user, I like this and think it's a good idea.

SL/SSL until 1/2/3/4 while eating a tiny bit above maint calories
Then C6W
Then 5/3/1 with jokers

This is the exact kind of shit tier advice that keeps people from making gains.

>Just because Bench somewhat uses triceps doesn't mean you can fuckin ignore them for a whole year.
Yes you can. If they lag, they are easily bulked up later.

there isnt a "truth" there is many ways to train, get in shape, and build muscle. there are thousands of techniques that work really

the sad reality is that john cena has no power here...

>>all these shitty sticky routines
>>lel isolations are evil!!!
>>bench/squat/deadlift/ohp for the rest of your life

Those are beginner routines you retard. You are supposed to switch to a split routine with more isolation exercises once you have reached a certain strength base and muscle exhaustion plateau. Feel free to stop posting and kill yourself any time you useless piece of shit.

full body routines are king for nattys PPL are a waste of time especially if you have no strength

A focus on slow, steady progression of:
-Press
-Deadlift
-Bench
-Squat
While also making time for core work and adding isolation exercises along the way
Eat excess calories, do some cardio, rest appropriate rest, gg.

I'll bite, what makes it shit

People shit on the sticky just to be edgy.

SS is GOD-TIER for a little while(maybe 6 months; don't get too attached to it) because it helps you practice the compound lifts.

After you have gotten the necessary base, and have practiced the lifts enough, find some routine that is based on compounds but incorporates isos as well.

Nothing, he's either shit posting or another angsty teen who thinks his musclemag workout and $150 worth of monthly supplements makes him a snowflake.

99% of this board hasn't even read practical programming. Rip literally answers every question and explains everything in detail that ever gets posted on Veeky Forums

Blatantly retarded posters that obviously haven't read the book (most likely the same person)

i know you idiot, that's why i said i'll bite. because it's bait. why in the hell are you so defensive anyway

You're joking or you actually want me to explain why c6w is a more advanced than 5/3/1 and doing SS until 1/2/3/4 is virtually impossible without bulking to 200. Inb4 you say "I put up a class B total on my first day at the gym lmao".

OK, so what is a good routine to get out of SS&GOMAD induced T-Rex mode? I thought I was bulking but I just got fat.

I only really care about aesthetics, should I just do PPL? Which variant?

Also forgot, because i'm sleepy and I'm typing fast, who the fuck tells someone to bulk without asking him his bw and bf% first. He didn't even ask the guy about his goals. He just picked some arbitrary routines, put SS first, then the others in no apparent particular order, and told him "do X routine until you hit arbitrary lift numbers". Not even the best fucking coaches in the world can tell someone what they should do for the next 2 years of training in 2 sentences but this nigga apparently did it because neither c6w and 531 are not routines that you quickly exhaust the gains on for 3 months and hop to something else. Not to mention it'll probably be years before the guy even knows how to make use of joker sets.

What I don't under stand is how you can possibly think it is in any way, shape or form productive advice that can be practically followed?

Some form of Linear progression based program (the best one that I found was Greyskull LP, although I would reccommend that a true beginner just followed the program outlined in starting strength (read the fucking book, not the summaries which you find online and do your back extensions and chinups)) until you can no longer linearly progress. After that you should assess your goals and choose a program that will fit your goals. Good examples of Intermediate programs are the Texas Method (and it's many variants) outlined in Practical Programming, all of the variants of 5/3/1, German Volume Training which is the only bodybuilding program which I will actually recommend, the many programs put out by Chad Wesley Smith, C6W, the many programs put out by Greg Nuckols, and many others.

Look into Nsun's 5 day 5/3/1 LP or whatever it's called
It's basically an ULULUXX routine that sounds more or less perfect for what you want (Getting a bigger upper body while maintaining lower body mass/lifts)
That being said I would not attempt to do this program while cutting weight, that would not be fun.

See, look at this guy, he has no fucking idea how to achieve his goals, has no apparent idea how to translate them into a training objective, and has no clue how to translate a training objective into a program.

This is the exact kind of thing that happens when people follow advice like

this.

I usually just laugh at Veeky Forums and then swear at them if they go full retard because they deserve for being this stupid.

Pls

When you can no longer make linear progress fuck nugget

Gee idk maybe he should try reading the book instead of listening to some dyel on fit

PP is a shit book and rippetoe's programs are the most basic and braindead "just do these same reps and sets every week forever" garbage. Your so-called fitness guru is a guy who thinks olympic lifters take steroids because they don't "strength train", and he thinks strength training exclusively training bench, lowbar squat and deadlift as primary lifts.

Youre not even being subtle about your trolling

t-nation.com/opinion/athletes-bad-coaches-and-steroids

startingstrength.com/article/is_olympic_weightlifting_strength_training

>pyrros dimas
>Naim Süleymanoğlu

"Those guys only remained dominant for 16 years because they took steroids the bulgarian method isn't really strength training xd."

Fucking kill yourself if you genuinely believe a word that comes out of this literal nobody's mouth. The only thing he's good at is teaching high school kids how to lift without getting injured. He's never trained a successful powerlifter. He has no results to show but he talks shit about coaches who train dozens gold medal athletes.

Are you new or what? The sticky has always been laughably bad from literally day 1. The only difference is now people know better and ignore it, when they didn't before

>do ss or sl until you stop making progress
>switch to another, more advanced program that has more volume
>make gains throughout this process
>???
>have better lifts and body than 95% of the gym-going population in a year or less

Very sad, if only the programming gods would shine down upon our board. The fact that you bitch and moan about the programming in the sticky of all things tells me that it is YOU whom is not a serious lifter.

>but muh biceps

Jesus christ, add some curls.

Difference is:
>be fat
>do SS / SL
>end up with bitch tits and huge hips

>be thin
>do SS / SL
>end up with bigger muscles and a solid basis for becoming aesthetics master

When linear gains stop, but probably should be at least 6 months

Most people can't achieve 1/2/3/4 for reps on SS even with bulking to 200, it will 100% take you to those numbers for a 1rm though. You idiots always think strength routine = bulking when the truth is that you don't need to do that for strength routines and you have to do that for hypertrophy ones. All you have to do to gain strength is lift and recover from cns fatigue, this can be done by eating at just maintenance.
As for his goals and bf% that's negligble as a natty. Natty lifters have to lift heavy and with the amount of frequency these programs have to see optimal gains, if the guy is too fat then if he eats enough o recover he'll still go down in body fat, if he's skinny then he'll eat more anyway because of how his body is burning through energy. That's how lifting works, idiot

>that's how lifting works, idiot

He said surplus regardless of weight. That means he said "if you are fat, eat at a surplus". That means he said "if you want to get leaner, eat at a surplus". That means he's wrong, and it means that his advice is counter productive for 90% of the people who come to this board, because most people just want to be lean with slightly above average muscle mass.

>All you have to do to gain strength is lift and recover from cns fatigue, this can be done by eating at just maintenance.

Less than 5 sets of bench a week will inevitably end in stalling long before you bench anywhere near 2 plates, unless you specifically gain weight in order to increase your numbers without becoming better at lifting weights.

He said tiny bit above which is probably +250 maintenance. You'd still end up with a lower bf% due to the increased amount of muscle mass, especially because beginners don't have much muscle and they can add a bunch super quickly.
SS can take you to a 1.5pl8 bench at least if you do it properly, which includes the dips and chin ups. That's not even accounting for the deloads you're supposed to do if you end up stalling.

I know that f7 guy. He's in some e-celebs discord and he's a pretty cool guy.

If you're just starting out, don't sweat it too much man. Any good program that doesn't ignore the fundamentals will serve you well.