Do you consider Balkanites to be culturally European?

Do you consider Balkanites to be culturally European?

Seeing as many people here seem to think that Russians are, I'm curious.

I don't think they are, because (at least the Orthodox & Muslim parts) never experienced the renaissance, the reformation, the enlightenment, and until the latter 19th century had a far more clannish and pastoral character in contrast to most of Europe. Even before becoming part of Ottoman asiatic civilization, the Balkans were split between the (oriental) Byzantine culture of the south and the steppe cultures which intruded from the north.

Depends on your definition of "European culture"

I consider European culture as being restricted to the Protestant/Catholic world, but obviously other people have different definitions if they can bring themselves to include Russia as a cultural part of Europe. Hence, my question.

Well to answer your question, by your definition of "European culture", no , Balkanites are not "culturally European"

>never experienced the renaissance, the reformation, the enlightenment
They did, albeit indirectly.
>I consider European culture as being restricted to the Protestant/Catholic world
>I consider Europe to be a western identity that specifically excludes these parts;
Even the catholic world meme doesn't mean anything, since you have eastern catholics, and that means everything from parts of Ukraine to Melkite Lebanon.

You do know the term "Europe" was originally constricted inside Balkans

Like Balkans has been Europe for longer than France or Germany

There's no such thing as a European culture. Europe is a geographical term.

>greeks invent idea of "europe"
>spaniards invent the idea of "white people"
>germanics steal both terms for themselves
why are germanics such we wuzzers?

Balkans is a subcontinent that has been part of the Continent of Europe since the continent of Europe was shaped

France and Germany are countries created in the middle ages

We're talking about history here
"Europe" originally referred to Greece and some part of Balkans and Anatolia.

It has always referred to the European continent

If by "European" you mean frankish germano-latin roman catholic culture, then yes, Russia and the Balkans are not part of it

really the whole thread is just semantics

They're more European than Russians for sure

Im not OP, im actually saying the term meant originally didnt include all of Europe

Why? Russians underwent a similar feudal rule to their Western counterparts, had a francophile nobility, had dynastic ties to Europe, underwent a political and cultural 'Westernization' under Peter the Great and invited swaths of German colonists to populate their steppes in the 17th/18th centuries. I still don't consider them culturally European, but why would they be less European than Balkanites? Balkanites lived within the same borders as almost the entire Arab world rule for nearly half a millenium under the Ottomans, never experienced the scale of feudalism that Russia did, and were under the direct rule of Muslims for that time.

So why would Russians be less culturally European than Balkanites?

Yes, both Russia and balkans are european. They are culturally, linguistically, ethnically and historical european, always were even under foreign occupation.
You've mistaken "western" for european, since most ideas of renaissance, the reformation and the enlightenment were by your definition are "culturally european" instead of westerner inventions that balkanites and russian adopted much later in history.
It's more debatable if balkanites and russians are to be considered "westerner" than "european".

Moldova isn't part of the balkans. Not geographically at least.

While they're definitely European, they're definitely not western. The only country in the Balkans that could be considered western is Greece, and then not even fully, because of its deliberate westernization and lack of communist influence.

There is a distinction between the term "European", "Occidental" and "Western"

The first was literally just this little patch of land. The second was basically "Occidental" in the Germanic/Catholic-Protestant-We Wuzzery sense, and an extension of the concept of "Europe"

The third is an extension of the second, which was born the moment the USA was founded and subsequently spread

>Russians underwent a similar feudal rule to their Western counterparts

Feudalism in eastern Europe was significantly different than in western Europe as it developed differently. There's two concepts when we talk about "Feudalism". The one used in Europe, where it meant an entire complex mode of production, and the one used in Asia/Eastern Europe which is strictly tributary type of feudalism.

>underwent a political and cultural 'Westernization' under Peter the Great

Which happened only in the 18th century, and lasted until the 20th. Until "Czars" came along, russians called their rulers "Khans" no less different than other asiatic steppe nomads.

>So why would Russians be less culturally European than Balkanites?

Because only their elites have anything to do with the European world.

Your dad fucks u up the ass every other day yet ur still considered europoor. So why care bout some potato farmers from far away?