Horus was born of a virgin december 25th, adorned by 3 kings

...

There is no "evidence" that Jesus was born on Dec 25.Christians tried to usurp existant religious practices in Rome. Namely the "state-god" of the later empire Sol Invictus, whose holiday was being held on Dec 25.

I'm not asking for evidence in that sense.
I'm merely asking for texts that make these claims, obviously.
Anything I found so far says none of this (expect the birthday thing, sort of)

Are there any contemporary texts that even point to Jesus Christ existing? At all?

I'm merely asking for texts that make these claims, obviously.

The source is basically Zeitgeist, the most discredited movie of all time.

Dozens.

Your changing the thread's point!
Fuck you!
Give me texts merely claiming that Horus (or someone else) had 12 disciples, was adorned by 3 kings, was dead for 3 days, etc...

But, if you insist, the "Jesus never existed" idea got raped hard, in this debate:
youtu.be/GzjYmpwbHEA

t.agnostic atheist

Source pls.

The source is a movie.
Awesome.
GG no re.

>muh debate!

Primary sources pls.

Can't you just go and google this on your own?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Sources

I thought I remebered that there was some document by Pontius Pilatus that named Jesus just as an administrative document. But I can't verify if that exists in actuality. The wikipedia points to the Roman historian Tacitus who wrote about Jesus and Christians existing and is supposedly a neutral source. Of course he wrote that in 100 AD, so not as a real contemporary of Jesus himself. On the other hand, we don't even have contemporary sources on figures like Alexander the Great. Only hearsay chronists wrote down a few decades later.

Went to read. Literally the first sentence:

>All extant sources that mention Jesus were written after his death.

lel

>we don't even have contemporary sources on figures like Alexander the Great. Only hearsay chronists wrote down a few decades later.
He literally took people with him to write about his campaign as it was happening. What the fuck are you talking about

>he doesn't know what a primary source is

You know you're on a history board, right?

This.

The Mithra thing is BS, for further information
youtu.be/xlF0gVedODE

This.

Based on late Jewish/early Christian folklore that important heroes died on the day they were conceived. Jesus was killed in the spring. Ergo, he was conceived in the spring. Ergo, he was born in the winter.

If you're really interested in digging into the common origins of myths/religions, read "The Golden Bough" by James Frazer.

Ah, Zeitgeist bullshit. It's false.

>Ok, but what about the 12 disciples, the 3 kings, the star in the east, and all that shit?
As you've correctly implied, it's massive bullshit.
Along with virgin birth, and crucifixion.

Here, OP.

>Based on late Jewish/early Christian folklore that important heroes died on the day they were conceived.
This.
And baptism may not have been born from some non-existent Anup, but is a mutant version of judaic cleansing baths.
It's like, and i know this sounds crazy, but maybe a religion born out of second temple judaism uses jewish symbolism(with a dash of zoroastrian and greek platonic, too), not egyptian and indian ones.

And maybe the whole Messiah thing is because jews have the concept of a Messiah, and the NT keeps winking at that version, not at non-messiah hawkgods and hindu miraclemen.

Thanks

Yes, that's the source of the "Jesus is Horus and a bunch of other deities" myth. Frazer's work is massive but it's been discarded a long time ago.

INCOMING DUMP

It is a fact that Christianity incorporates an amalgam of different influences from the peoples that preceded it. Not as a copycat, but in the way of subtle influences.

However, there is a problem with both camps in this debate:

On the one hand, Zeitgeist IS bullshit in the sense that it cannot be used as a scholarly source, it uses dubious sources, does not cite them, and stretches the truth to the breaking point.

On the other hand, so-called debunkers that pretend there is no connection at all are also being facetious, because they quote Middle Kingdom Horus to "disprove" these claims, who was a completely different entity from Horus after the Hellenization of the Egyptian people. If Christianity was in any way influenced by Egyptian mythology, it was by LATE ROMAN EGYPT, not by Ancient Egypt.

It is important to understand that Egyptian religion never stopped evolving. It had no canon and no single unified gospel. Gods like Horus or Isis had numerous "aspects" and often merged with or took qualities from other Gods.

The Jewish god is essentially Amun and Ptah

That said, there are many similarities between *LATE* Horus and Jesus.

>Born on December 25th
Ancient Latin writer Macrobius (Saturnalia, I, XVIII:10) also reported on the annual Egyptian "Christmas" celebration, specifying the time as the winter solstice or "December 25th", as a celebration centeted on Horus the Child:

…at the winter solstice the sun would seem to be a little child, like that which the Egyptians bring forth from a shrine on an appointed day, since the day is then at its shortest and the god is accordingly shown as a tiny infant.

Here we can see the precise meaning of the theme of the newborn sun at the winter solstice, a motif representing the lengthening of days after the darkest time of the year. Egyptologist Dr. Bojana Mojsov explains further the significance in Egypt: "The symbol of the savior-child was the eye of the sun newly born every year at the winter solstice."

>Born of a virgin
By the time of Roman Egypt, the Goddess Isis had merged with the Goddess Neith, and acquired many of her qualities such as virginity. Plutarch describes her as "Athena, which the Egyptians know as Isis".

According to Proclus' the statue of Isis at the temple at Said had the inscription "no one has ever lifted my veil," implying that the goddess is virginal. Proclus also adds "The fruit of my womb was the sun", suggesting that the goddess conceived and gave birth to the sun without the participation of a male deity.

Isis was also referred as "the Great Virgin" at the temple of Seti I at Abydos.

>Birth adorned by Three Kings
Sirius marks the birth of Horus the Elder, and his birth was followed by the Three Kings of Orion.

>12 Disciples
Horus had 12 servants, not disciples, when he travelled the underword.

>Baptized and Purified the Dead
True, as per the Coffin Texts (CT Sp. 74)

>Died and Resurrected
As per the accounts of Diodorus Siculus (1.25.6) 1st Century BCE

By the way, these are PRIMARY sources:
While this () quotes about.com, infoplease.com and a bunch of forums.

Can you just give the name of the texts, and the date they were written?
Or a link to this info?

Claim would make sense if New testament consisted only of older legends merged to Jesus myth.
But there is so much content that is unique that it would make no sense to think that some hugely imaginative person would have made up whole thing hundreds of years later. And many aspects of Jesus as a person are not good marketing material for a new religion.

Macrobius (Saturnalia, I, XVIII:10)
penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Macrobius/Saturnalia/home.html

Proclus
(books.google.com/books?id=xUFdAQAAQBAJ&pg=PT39&lpg=PT39&dq=proclus isis virgin&source=bl&ots=7gIxSeIhYd&sig=CzE1vKqzJKo2nKovwCwwB6IgWwc&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDz6zxrcbZAhUHoVMKHQFcDdoQ6AEwDHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=proclus isis virgin&f=false)

Coffin Texts
(oi.uchicago.edu/research/publications/oip/egyptian-coffin-texts-1-texts-spells-1-75)

Diodorus Siculus
(penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/home.html)

why are her eyes so huge

Neoteny

she looks like Casca from my animes

I guess you don't believe/trust anything you read about Socrates either.

thx

The difference is, Socrates doesn't need to have existed the claims in his texts to be true.
They present solid arguments for Socrates' philosophy.
Jesus is like "I was resurrected therefore everything I say is true."
Dipshit.
We also don't base our entire lives on Socrates, and we don't try to defend everything he said.

Rubbish. "While shepherds were tending their sheep by night". Doesn't happen in the dead of winter.

The bible puts the pieces together for anyone who is interested. John the Baptist's father was a priest and was the priest selected that year for one of the festivals. His wife was pregnant with John the Baptist.

Mary visited Elizabeth to tell her that she was pregnant with Jesus while John the Baptist was 6 months old.

Knowing the festival, and the 6 month gap, places Jesus' birthday in the second week of September.

When shepherds would be abiding their flocks by night.

The point is that there is a massive amount of evidence for Jesus, and scant for Socrates, yet you do not attack people for believing in Socrates.

You are irrational, and haven't faced the abyss yet.

They aren't the same myth you soyim, maybe if you knew how to read you could actually tell that.

> the Cybele cult flourished on today's Vatican Hill. Cybele's lover Attis, was born of a virgin, died and was reborn annually. This spring festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday, rising to a crescendo after three days, in rejoicing over the resurrection.

Interesting

Supernatural claims require more scrutiny than banal ones.
>"massive amount of evidence for Jesus"
Written at least 20 years later.
Let's just pretend 20 years isn't 20 years more than necessary for people to make up a bunch of bullshit. They did Fatima much faster.

And, as I said, resurrecting doesn't mean everything you say is true, especially not according to the OT.
In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13).

...

Virtually nobody follows a religion based on Socrates, you fucking retard.
And if anyone does, we'll be the first ones to call out their bullshit.

Socratism - the religion (the belief) founded by Socrates to whom are generally ascribed an intense ethical devotion that influenced all later Greek philosophy, the development of the inductive method, and the conception of knowledge or insight as the foundation of virtue.

Why do hate us Socratics?

Depends.
Do you believe in superstitious bullshit?

>Good argument
>Info is actually sources
>Cute girl
user you just gave me the proof that this place is still worth it. Good job, you need a triumph

...

Thank you user!
Always nice to know someone appreciates my posts.

none of that's true of course

>dude Jesus is Cyrus

Literally Titus’ Jewish scribe and tacitus

Reminder that Islam is literally a Judeo-Christian heresy

FAIL

Why are ppl ignoring the fact that Tacitus (and all other ancient historians, like the modern ones) used older contemporary sources to make their claims?

So you are saying, we should trust 40+ years of people, telling people, telling people, telling people...
Fuck that.
All the other religions lied, but this time, no, this time, they told the truth.

I could PRETEND to believe that they were telling the truth, but that's very insulting. It's not a choice for me to believe or not.

Fence sitter

And the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the best recorded event in ancient history.

Socrates never existed. You just want an invisible Greek daddy.

The Bible doesn't say there were 3 Magi, just that 3 (actually 2, as Frankincense and Myrh go together as a form of perfume or aromatic oil) presents were presented to Christ.

You're a Gnostic Atheist then, an Agnostic Atheist would be one who doesn't believe and makes no claim to knowledge behind his belief/disbelief.

You are correct.

You are weak.

To help clarify, you are an actual agnostic, which in the latin translates to "ignoramus".

And you're fine with that. You're fine with being an ignoramus.

>60 years isn’t contemporary
Okay, guess Herodotus was wrong about Cyrus and Darius then

>Treat agnosticism as a position
>Not realizing a certain degree of agnosticism is necessary for religion
You're an impotent atheist.