What is Veeky Forums opinion on Arthur Harris?

BASED

>His Douhetian theory of air war was very flawed,

I wouldn't say that he was following the ideas laid out by douhet beyond "bomb shit kill people"

No, he pretty much followed Douhet's ideas in The Command of The Air to a T. Aircraft can strike at the civilian base of the enemy without interference from groudn forces, and have therefore supplanted them; resources beyond very bare defense spent on the ground troops are a waste, the air arm is now the primary striking arm. Defense is a bad idea, and the better way to conduct war from the air is to bomb more, bomb harder, and bomb first; the best defense is better offense. Morale bombing is the way to bring it home to the enemy, to force them to either face the prospect of revolution when the civilians get bombed or to bring their government to terms in order to avoid said revolution.

Harris followed those ideas, and advocated for them perfectly.

he didnt kill 25,000 civilians, he killed 100,000 atleast at dresden

The only reason it worked for the engish is due to their island nation status, on the mainland even the greatest and most sophisticated defensive structures were useless aside from temporary delays

Mistakes were made, maybe he should have pounded heavy industries that can't be easily rebuilt or dispersed and would create an economic bottleneck, good idea that. Thsough with the gift of foresight that is easier said than done.

However don't discount the morale effect. It was subtle but it was there. It confirmed in the minds of any educated intelligent rational german that they were losing the war, and it is exactly these kinds of people you want to stop contributing to the war effort and start thinking about saving their hides.

Only good Anglo in history tbqh
>John French was okay too I guess

Typical incompetent/retarded limey in epaulets. Idiot couldn't even hit the broad side of a country for MONTHS. That's right, he wasn't even able to accurately target well enough to hit the right COUNTRY. No wonder he went with "area bombing". Make the area big enough, and you can always claim a bullseye. I mean, just look at the retarded fucker's photograph, some people you can see the mental retardation right in front of you, 70 years on. The post war bombing survey demonstrated how impotent his fumblings actually were in the war effort, but he sure got a lot of bomber command killed, for all his retardation.

If you're following up to , I fail to see how that's relevant. Harris went to an air war with a very Douhet-style vision as to how it was to be done.

> Thsough with the gift of foresight that is easier said than done.
It really isn't. You had scads of other people telling him to do it, and him ignoring them all. Honestly, it doesn't take a visionary to say
>The air arm should be subordinate to the overall strategy of the nation at war. We should work together with other arms to accomplish the overall goal.
Harris rejected this rather straightforward idea.

>However don't discount the morale effect. It was subtle but it was there
Really? What did it do then?

> It confirmed in the minds of any educated intelligent rational german that they were losing the war, and it is exactly these kinds of people you want to stop contributing to the war effort and start thinking about saving their hides.
They didn't close the Nazi regime, nor forced it to the bargaining table. They didn't halt or even slow war production. There were barely any peace demonstrations. The Nazis kept an enormously tight grip on their people. I have trouble seeing how you can possibly claim the morale war was a success.

DO IT AGAIN!

Are you, perhaps, retarded? Oh, who am I kidding. Of course you are.

>Thsough with the gift of foresight
You mean hindsight. Foresight is when you can see the future.

Disgusting prefidrious war criminal and mass murderer.

He put it so fucking right...
Germans bombed and destroyed tons of european cities and killed so many civilians, and they expected that same shit wouldn't come them?
How fucking inbred stormnigger you have to be to complane about Dresden bombing? Where are your complaints on how nazis demolished Warsaw, bombed Rotterdam etc.?

Fuck nazis and fuck krauts for starting this shit war which killed millions of europeans and left entire europe in ruins for their stupid idealistic ambitions like "Lebensraum" and world dominance.
Only sin Arthur Harris did, was not killing enough germans.

>prefidrious

Did nothing wrong, except not killing more.

The 100,000 figure is literally Goebbels propaganda. The accepted figure is 25,000.

My opinion is that he should do it again.

He accurately described mindset of average stormnigger (at least) or every right-leaning ideology (at worst).

Why, you think, they are called "stormNIGGERS"? Dindu nuffin and jewish subversion is their water and bread.

A war criminal and a coward.

German rats needed to be exterminated and still do.

Burn them all.

Memes aside, he continued to pursue an ineffective strategy even after it had long become apparent that the Americans had the correct approach. Something confirmed by ULTRA interceptions and post-war interviews with Speer.

>Being this much of a samefag.
Seriously, you got BTFO before. Why come into the thread again and get BTFO all over again?

...

This. /pol/, lefty/pol, and memers need to seriously shut the fuck up and lurk moar.

tfw I frequently yell "do it again bomber harris" and "fucking krauts scum of the earth" in my MWH class and I cussed out some german foreign exchange student last month
Ama

What's it like to have autism?

ITT, things that never happened.

K I will share more. I have never written "g*rman" on any assignment, I write Kraut every time and every time I am deducted a few points. Got a B+ one semester and that was why, I was mere decimals off of an A. Worth it in the long run. Also once I heard some kid humming Sabaton's Ghost Division (p*nzer elite, born to compete, never retreat) and I just looked him in the eye and said "the fuck's your problem man?" And started waving/shaking my hands violently and getting in his face a little. Eventually left the scrawny bitch alone. Been doing stuff like this since sophomore year when I first got interested in history and the reactions from my various his teachers are varied to say the least

This is the worst role playing I've read since I was a kid in the Yahoo lesbian chatroom.

He's right you know. Kid is merely doing his sworn duty as an amerifat
And now the best thing you will ever see youtu.be/4ztOV2wrrkY

I'm not clicking on your gay channel, gaywad.

it had never been tried back then

>thinks combined military branches was a straightforward idea in 1944
>doesn't understand population morale
>doesn't understand the implications of total war
Yeh I bet you could have won the war single handed desert fuck.

I have a better story. In american-history class, on the topic of the KKK and how they're still prominent even today, our professor asked "Are there any other hate groups you know today?". People stated the obvious anti-muslim groups and Trump supporters, which the professor said it was a 'weak claim'. Some Fedora kid said Black Panthers and the professor acknowledged they did some terrorist actions.

The professor continued "Isn't there one particular hate group that everyone knows?", he was definitely referring to Nazis. So I, without much thought, said "Germans". The professor initially thought I said Nazis and said "Of course! They were the greatest villains in history and their horrible effects still linger today."

It was a good class.

>Dresden = war crime!

you may be an autistic LAARPing son of a bitch but godspeed anyway

This is a +18 place champ.

...

It actually was, though. A well-deserved war crime, perhaps, but a war crime nonetheless.

It's not like it's any worse than what the US did to Japan.
The RAF may have heavily bombed Germany
But the USAAF incinerated Japan

Let's be honest, nobody actually gives a single fuck about those dead Krauts in Dresden.
It's all politics.

What the US did to Japan was also a war crime.

>trusting the guy who avoided hanging at Nuremberg by making up a lie about how he totally tried to kill Hitler you guys
the only thing Harris did wrong was not kill more Germ*Noids

Mixed, he did what was thought to be necessary at the time.

I don't like the idea of innocent people getting killed in wars. I don't even like the fact that Axis and Allied soldiers killed each other.

Laffed at the pic
But i entirely agree with your post, although some fedora-tippers might say "haha they deserved it" or "suck it up faggot, part and parcel of war"

>The air arm should be subordinate to the overall strategy of the nation at war
That was exactly what Harris was doing. The final goal of any war (that is not about exterminating the enemy) is to destroy their will to continue fighting. Of course he was never going to convince the minority of nazi fanatics to give up, these people would have to be fought to the fuhrerbunker. However many officers and skilled workers upon which the war effort depended ceased to believe in Hitler.

If anything your accusation could be laid against the American air arm who sought the glory of peppering so and so factory or rail yard which would be back in operation within days when really they could have been creating epic firestorms.

based on what laws?

>That was exactly what Harris was doing.
No it fucking wasn't. Harris wanted to win the war entirely with air power. He thought things like supporting D-Day, or protecting British convoys from the air, were wastes of time and resources.

>The final goal of any war (that is not about exterminating the enemy) is to destroy their will to continue fighting
No, the final goal is to destroy their CAPABILITY to continue fighting. That can and would often be done by attacking something other than the morale of the enemy.

>If anything your accusation could be laid against the American air arm who sought the glory of peppering so and so factory or rail yard which would be back in operation within days when really they could have been creating epic firestorms.
You didn't even understand my accusation you retard. ANd no, the Americans were subordinating their bombing to larger war goals. That's why they tried to do things like blow up stuff that would help their land units progress, or blow up the economically vital stuff of Germany so they could continue the production war on a more advantageous footing, something Harris thought was worthless.

Quality thread mate.

its because germans deserved each bomb dropped.

Based

not him but either you're retarded or have you've been to an elementary school where kids call their teachers "professors"?

fuck you you're fucking gay

DIDN'T BOMB ENOUGH

that's how it goes on Veeky Forums, /int/-tier shitposting but without the flags this time

I hope he can see from hell all those white british girls being raped by pakis with Churchill everyday.

>destroy their CAPABILITY to continue fighting
Anyone can continue fighting even if their capability has been diminished to holding out to the last man, woman and child in the ruins of Berlin (which many did). As I said he was trying to demoralize the general population not a tiny minority of nazi fanatics, and he succeeded. In the early months of 1945 100000s of Germans hastily surrendered as the advance progressed beyond the Rhine, disobeying orders to die for uncle Adolf. This would later rise to millions as the situation deteriorated further, though granted this was in part due to the shock of the Soviet push and other things. What is more difficult to quantify is the loss to war production. An engineer more interested in keeping his family out of trouble over the next few months as Germany hurtles towards their inevitable defeat is less useful than one that believes Germany might have a chance in the war, it is an intangible loss of intellectual prowess, but it is there and confirmed by people who lived through the war recounting their actions.

>You didn't even understand my accusation you retard.
You said "Harris rejected this rather straightforward idea." "The air arm should be subordinate to the overall strategy of the nation at war". The overall strategy is to diminish their will to fight. Mission accomplished.

Arthur Harris was a hero, a genius who saved millions with a simple fireworks show.

>the war was unnecessary to begin with
Well no shit sherlock, if Hitler had managed to contain his autism then many countless innocent lives would have been saved

Should have been hanged.

I see you sponsor state terrorism, that's nice.

I disagree, I know the Japs would have nuked us, I seriously doubt the Germans would have used terror bombing.

>No, the final goal is to destroy their CAPABILITY to continue fighting.
If he wanted to do that he would have targeted factories, railyards and places of industry.

>Anyone can continue fighting even if their capability has been diminished to holding out to the last man, woman and child in the ruins of Berlin (which many did).
Which has a whole lot to do with land offensives by the Red Army and the U.S. and British armies, and very little to do with terror bombing.

> As I said he was trying to demoralize the general population not a tiny minority of nazi fanatics, and he succeeded. In the early months of 1945 100000s of Germans hastily surrendered as the advance progressed beyond the Rhine, disobeying orders to die for uncle Adolf.
Any MY point is that these are results of ground offensives, not his largely worthless aerial attacks.

>This would later rise to millions as the situation deteriorated further, though granted this was in part due to the shock of the Soviet push and other things.
It did not rise to millions until Germany's government surrendered, which was due to a land force physically taking control of Berlin. This is something that Harris thought was completely unnecessary.

>What is more difficult to quantify is the loss to war production.
Too bad Harris thought that was pointless, a way of subordinating the air arm to other arms when its "proper" role was to be the primary arm.

>An engineer more interested in keeping his family out of trouble over the next few months as Germany hurtles towards their inevitable defeat is less useful than one that believes Germany might have a chance in the war, it is an intangible loss of intellectual prowess, but it is there and confirmed by people who lived through the war recounting their actions.
Please, demonstrate this. How much less does that engineer produce, and what are you basing this on?

1/2

>The overall strategy is to diminish their will to fight. Mission accomplished.
Wrong, you fucktard. The overall strategy is to render them unable or unwilling to fight by the quickest and cheapest means available. Striking at their morale and ignoring your own land forces is not a good way to do this.

>Arthur Harris was a hero, a genius who saved millions with a simple fireworks show.
He quite literally killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of his own men and that of his allies by refusing to work with a more efficient setup. It would have bene even higher if he wasn't overridden on several key decisions, like the Transport Plan making sure that the landings in France actually worked.

That's the point. Harris didn't want that, because he was a disciple of Douhet. It was a very stupid doctrine, but he held to it despite the manifold evidence that it was inefficient at best, and completely worthless at worst.

>I seriously doubt the Germans would have used terror bombing
Adolf Galland said that Hitler was opposed to bombing Britain because of Pan-Germanic idealism. He believed British people to be too similar to Germans and killing them was a waste.
However, the Germans did not refrain from targeting civilians if it served their war effort, e.g. at Rotterdam or Warsaw.
Not to mention punitive action on civilians in case they were harbouring partisans. If partisans murdered German soldiers then the Germans would kill the same number (or even more) of the civilians who were suspected of hiding partisans among them.

tl;dr

Nobody cares you dumb autistic /pol/tard.

>Not to mention punitive action on civilians in case they were harbouring partisans.
Good, Partisans are the scum of the Earth.

...

t. hun savage

40,000+ British people died in the blitz....

That kind of perversion and degeneracy is reserved directly for Hitler and his sadomasochistic nazi clique who quite enjoy destroying europe and white people.

absolutely based

autist

this

Actual historians:
>the allied strategic air war had practically no effect on the outcome of ww2 and was an ineffectual waste of resources

Veeky Forums:
>DO IT AGAIN!!! xDDDD brits did it single-handedly germans btfo my source the history channel

>I seriously doubt the Germans would have used terror bombing.
V-2 was used pretty much for terror bombing

>Where are your complaints on how nazis demolished Warsaw, bombed Rotterdam etc.?
>Fuck nazis and fuck krauts for starting this shit war which killed millions of europeans

This. I'm Polish, from Warsaw. We used to have a very nice house in Warsaw, before Hytlar ordered it leveled & kill everyone because he felt like it - even at the cost of spending munition that was desperatelly needed to fight the Soviets. Had familly members killed in death camps, others forced to be slave workers, others forced to move to Żyrardów, because there was no place left to live in Warsaw.
And now the germans try to tell the world concentration camps ware Polish.
Fuck all the Germans.
Do it again, Bomber Harris.

Do you know what the 'V' stands for?

The Germans DID terror bomb London though.

...

Wehraboos are so funny

Bomber harris stratega WAS the correct aprroach, you dumb fucktard. Land armies had fuck all to do with germans surrendering en masses in 1945.

Dresden destruction was a crippling blow to german war industry, you autistic fuck.

Cannot tell if retardation or joking.

This

I am not joking, you krautnigger.

I have trouble believing someone could be that retarded and still type coherently, but then again, we do have /int/.

i'm amazed you're still not banned