What's your stance on machines ?

What's your stance on machines ?

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meme first post

We must destroy the machines before they achieve sentience and destroy us

stupid. my fat friend can max most of them out and thinks hes accomplishing something

your "fat" friend is strong af and you're jealous

machines are better if you're not a validation seeking wannabe tough guy

Mostly just work individual muscles, free weights tend to be better at overall brogression. Using weights mainly and machines to work on shoulders, lats, triceps, etc. is the way to go desu

yeah. He played football in highschool. I bet he could squat 3 and dl 4 his 2nd try, but he doesnt wanna.

Good to do after an actual excercise. Chest press after bench press for example.

Good for strip sets/finishers.

Good for use if you're freshly injured

Do you consider cables machines ?

Do for isolations after compounds.

We better destroy ourselves so we won't build the machines that would destroy us.

Battle stance, but I switch to defensive stance on lat pull-downs.

They're good to use if you're injured or in some cases don't want to put as much stress on your joints (although some machines make this a moot point).
There are issues with loading and how resistance doesn't seem to be uniform (eg 100 pounds on one cable machine will feel different on a different one) but that can be ameliorated by simply always using the same machine.
I wouldn't build a routine off of them entirely because I don't find them as fun as free weights, but I'm also not going to say that they aren't valuable.
There are many paths to fitness (I have no clue what this word means anymore) and I think that the most important thing is to do what you enjoy while being active.

Cable stuff is quite versatile, and I'm partial to leg curls.

This

How to replace this?

Cables are basically free weights

dumbbells or cables lying face up on a bench

they don't have a consistent resistance curve like pec deck thi

>not doing some euphoric sets of cable flys after a filthy bench sesh

never gunna make it

I use certain machines, as well as free weights and the bench.

>not doing proper bench so have to compensate for low pec involvement and do flies

Anything other than barbell compound lifts is a waste of space, time and energy, unless you have very specific weaknesses or imbalances that can only be fixed by using such a device.

you're a waste

>low pec development

nigga u got low brain development, cable flys are the shit

I think they're good at the end of the workout, after barbell and dumbbell training, to really isolate and tire out the last bit of muscle fibers

show ur body

Cables are better than dumbbells in many instances
Cables offer more functionality in many other instances
Machines are fantastic for adding heavier weights to existing lifts by isolating or restricting movement
Machines are fantastic for removing exhaustion and other restrictions of free weights
Leg curl/extension machines are particularly great for a constant stream of girls arses to view between sets

Plenty other benefits but basically anyone who has a problem with machines simply doesn't lift very much yet

>go to nautilus machine for chest after doing 315 for reps on the bench
>"does a machine like yourself ever experience fear"

yeah they are a pretty shit exercise

This is correct
I wasted 7 months in a gym on machines 'making progress' i.e. being able to do heavier weights but then I got a real barbell and i was far weaker on the same lifts than I thought.
Leg press is fine, same for rear deltoid flies, hamstring curls etc. but stay away from machines

severely underrated post

...

just nuts and bolts

A friend of mine thinks that way. Decent body, overall good gains, HOWEVER his triceps are weirdly underdeveloped. There's risks to not doing isolation exercises.

Tell your friend to do weighted dips

I kek'd

>not being berserker stance your entire workout

Nah mate they will fuck up your joints, they force you into a specific range of motion, I can feel it in my shoulders whenever I use a chest press or shoulder press or anything

Preacher curl machine is GOAT tho

the only acceptable machines are:
- lat machine (cable pulldown)
- seated cable row
- adjustable cable machines for face pulls/triceps pushdown/cable kickbacks (if woman)
- piss flaps and reverse piss flaps machine (if woman)
- leg press (only as a complement to squats)

Anything else is shit and the smith machine is the most baitful of all of them

I like the leg extension and leg curl machines as well.

>leg extension
rip patella
>leg curl
literally do romanina or straight leg deadlifts if you want to hit hamstrings more

problem is I wanna get huge quads and I hate all quad exercises apart from the leg extension machine.

Machines are literally for fat people and woman

>legpress
>deltoid flies

you need to fucking kys

>you need to fucking kys
Without resorting to memes, can you even make an actual argument about why what I said was wrong?
I will wait

there is always a machine with a different rom in case one isn't right for you

>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up with your current one

Dumbell flyes.

And as for - come back when you're Arnold and we'll discuss that one further.

As a few others have said, good for those wanting to scope things out after injury, but you can do this with free weights too.

I like the fact normies use them as they're too scared of free weights. Keeps the free weight area a little more quiet.

On the flip-side, I do like and use some of them. Squats are king, but I'll sometimes throw some heavy leg press in afterwards. Calf raise machine is pretty decent too, but that's more politeness as it stops me using up an entire squat rack and barbell with a simply accessory exercise.

hack squats, leg press, shoulder press, peck deck, etc. tell me, what's "unnatural" about the rom on these? i get smith machine can be unnatural for some movements like squats but that's dodging the question to use that as an example every time.

depends on the machine

cables are great for doing time under tension work
calf press is pretty decent

most of them will mess you up longterm though because they force you into specific angles and the joints just don't work like that

use them sparingly ontop of a free weight routine and you'll be fine

>shoulder press
completely unnatural ROM. I remember the old days when the appointed PT pointed me to a shoulder press machine. I told him it was hurting me. He suggested to lower the stance. I told him it was hurting me again. He suggested to move to a different shoulder press machine (both were technogym, so not exactly cheap shit)
Eventually I educated myself when I switched gym and started doing bb OHP. Never looked back. Never had pain nor signs of impingement again.
>pec deck
pretty much a meme. I did that in my early days. I stopped being a chestlet when I moved to bb flat and db incline bench press.
>leg press
is the only salvageable one, but for God's sake, don't really believe it's on par with skwats
>hack squats
sled hack squat? literally why, nigga. It's even worse than the smith squat. If you aren't recovering and you don't have a very good reason to isolate bi-dimensionally quads (e.g. after an injury) just fucking squat

Newbie here. I know 3x5 and 5x5 are good for beginners with squats and bench and so on, but every kind of reps should I be looking for on machines?

I still don't get barbell rows, so I'm trying machine rows. But clearly it's not working at much or as hard, should I do 3x10?

>kind of reps should I be looking for on machines?
0 is the magic number.

>I still don't get barbell rows
can't you really row the empty barbell?
>machine row
if it's not seated cable row, drop it

shoulder press machine isn't completely unnatural. it's literally exactly the same as ohp except your head isn't the way which means a more optimal bar path. people who hate machines are just broken faggots.

>0
C'mon man, I'm tryin' here. Surely machine work is better than no work.

>can't you really row the empty barbell?
I should've been more specific: my form is shit. I don't understand the lift yet. Maybe I should watch some tutorials.

>seated cable row

I assume that's what it is. I sit on the machine, put my legs up, and pull the handle towards me extending the cable.

I'm a beginner, obviously.

>it's literally exactly the same as ohp
No, it's not.
>your head isn't [in] the way which means a more optimal bar path
dear motherfucking God, shoulder ROM is a completely different set, game and championship
you'll be able to hit the optimal bar path ONLY with standing OHP. Try lifting weights sometimes.
>people who hate machines are just broken faggots.
Your father is a broken faggot.

>Surely machine work is better than no work.
No, they're not.
>I should've been more specific: my form is shit. I don't understand the lift yet. Maybe I should watch some tutorials.
Watch more tutorials or ask the 55 yo resident powerlifter gymcel guy to spot you.
>seated cable row
cables haven't a fixated path and are usually fine. Try to do them with a full range of motion, that is, without keeping the back completely straight. Some gyms have cable row machines where you'll be able to perform only the "straight back" variant. If you can avoid splinting your back during the execution of the exercise you'll become more self-aware of your back muscles. Go watch some tutorial about it anyway. Ex.
exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/CBSeatedRow.html
youtube.com/watch?v=A77hAjcpN1s

sitting

Some machines are okay. Cable machines in particular are really useful for weird shit like face pulls and cable crunches. I also like the pec deck.

That being said I only use machines for assistance exercises and supplementary movements. I don't ever really feel like I make gains from them except for in really specific cases.

you forgot to include a single point in this umm... "argument". by exactly the same i mean the movement pattern does not introduce any additional hardships on your joints as you implied.

Shoulders have a peculiar limited ROM due to limited subacromial space, rotator cuffs impingements and supraspinatus injuries are a common occurrence to anyone who doesn't care about their rotator cuff ROM. Only a three-dimensional plane allows anyone to fully take into account the morphological features of such a limited and peculiar articulation. Many gym offer different "shoulder press machines" because of this, people have different ROM on their shoulders. It's not even a matter of acquiring a good shoulder mobility. People who can ROM the shit out of your puny DYEL ass and who can perform behind-the-neck presses without any issues may have impingement if they try a shoulder press machine that just doesn't fit their ROM. (Not that a behind-the-neck press is commendable at all, but it does require excellent shoulder ROM).
A fixated path for OHP is a no-no.
Go choke on a dick and fuck off.

We're all going to be replaced by them?

Not the biggest fan of them since they don't work any of the shit that stabilizes shit.

> Shoulders have a peculiar limited ROM due to limited subacromial space
yeah take a neutral grip machine press problem solved
> Only a three-dimensional plane allows anyone to fully take into account the morphological features of such a limited and peculiar articulation
the only reason why you don't ohp straight up and straight down is because your head is in the way dumpshit
> Many gym offer different "shoulder press machines" because of this, people have different ROM on their shoulders
exactly so you have no excuses anymore

you're dumb as fuck. quit posting retard.

Perfect to use as a supplemental workout.

Example: Chest I will use free weights and then go to a machine to burnout. It's safe and I don't need a spot. I can also adjust the weight in seconds.

Nothing beats free weights, but machines are great as a secondary workout.

>I'm an underage idiot: the post

It's sad that so many gym don't have safety arms on their chest stations. Mine has 4~5 inches safety arms (not so different from safety pins in the cage) and it's fixed at ~1 inch beneath my usual bench press position (slightly arced back). Chestlets maybe have to adopt a "powerlifting" position in order to touch chest at each rep but honestly it's so much convenient.

>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up with your current one

>putting my arms straight up and down is an unnatural rom

This. You should kys you're self just to be sure, OP.

moving arms over a fixated vertical path not elected by your scapular and rotator cuffs is literally what causes 100% of the shoulder-related injuries. The fixated plane movement could have been caused because of an incident, an incorrectly executed exercise or because of a non suitable machine. Given the lack or ROM on the subacromial space, the rotator cuff should be given ANY chance to express itself to avoid straining even if it there's not direct impingement. Head retraction is completely irrelevant in this wandering for optimal ROM of your cuffs. Putting your arms STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN on a plane non elected by your shoulders is literally the WORST possible thing you can to them.

in an ohp the rom is literally straight up and down the only reason you move the bar is because your head is in the way. quit posting retard.

>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because you don't know what's a natural ROM is

your dumb

>He moves arms ups and down parallel to the body
>He doesn't have a human rotator cuff to begin with
>His rotator cuff moves on a literal VERTICAL plane during the whole execution
Enough shitposting for today, kid.

yes the bar path is perfectly vertical on an ohp. the only, only reason it isn't is because your head is in the way. restating it ironically doesn't change this fact. dumbbells are literally straight up and down too.

you guys suck at this joke, it's:
"Stance? I usually sit on them while I workout"

your rotator cuffs don't move on the bar path. Restating idiotically and frantically that your rotator cuffs move on the same vertical plane won't change the fact that they don't. It's not by chance that NO shoulder press machine moves on a literal vertical path; on the horizontal plane they tend to mimic OHP since generally the cuffs move at best @30° in frontal plane (the never move at 0° when going up and a 90° in the front is wrong too) and yet machines can't adjust the sagittal plane nor the frontal plane for each individual peculiarities. And subacromial space is so damn small.
You lack basilar concepts regarding human anatomy and about the mechanics of OHP. You don't even seem to know that the same OHP machines neglect the whole hypothesis of your blabbering. Moreover you seem underage and autismal enough to persevere in shitposting.
Fuck off, kid.

>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because you don't know what's a natural ROM is

an ideal vertical press is straight up and down. anything less is your own failure to perform the movement correctly or in this case a limitation of the implement being used eg the barbell. nothing you've posted about rotator cuffs can be solved by a barbell but rather by reducing shoulder ration by using a neutral grip and has nothing to do with bar path. kys retard.

(You)

>an ideal vertical press is straight up and down.
You seem to be not just retarded and underage, but illiterate too. If you can't distinguish between the movement of your rotator cuffs and the movement of the barbell I seriously hope you don't step your feet outside of your basement without the supervision of an adult.

if your hands are locked into position on the barbell and the bar moves straight up and down then your rotator cuffs are not doing anything differently on a machine or a bar or dbs or anything you dumb cuck. quit posting retard.

>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because you don't know what's a natural ROM is

>your rotator cuffs are not doing anything differently
>your rotator cuffs don't move on the bar path. Restating idiotically and frantically that your rotator cuffs move on the same vertical plane won't change the fact that they don't. It's not by chance that NO shoulder press machine moves on a literal vertical path; on the horizontal plane they tend to mimic OHP since generally the cuffs move at best @30° in frontal plane (the never move at 0° when going up and a 90° in the front is wrong too) and yet machines can't adjust the sagittal plane nor the frontal plane for each individual peculiarities. And subacromial space is so damn small.
>You lack basilar concepts regarding human anatomy and about the mechanics of OHP. You don't even seem to know that the same OHP machines neglect the whole hypothesis of your blabbering. Moreover you seem underage and autismal enough to persevere in shitposting.
>Fuck off, kid.

i bet you respond to this post with another dumbfrog avatar pasta

you're wrong and dumb btw

why are you copying your own completely and utterly wrong and fucking retarded post? nothing in it contains anything useful or relevant to the discussion. you don't know how the shoulder works and you don't even know how to ohp correctly. kys retard

i wonder if anyone gets this meme.

>my lever shoulder press moves on a perfectly vertical plane
>oh wait it doesn't

>my rotator cuff doesn't take advantage of three-plane movements on bb OHP, regardless of head retraction
>oh wait it does take advantage of any adjustment on frontal and sagittal plane since it doesn't move directly in the vertical plane

>I somehow assume to know something
>I won't even attempt tor read anything
>I'm here just to shitpost
>lelelele you dumb kys utterly wrong perfectly vertical retarded no u

What a waste of biological material.

>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because of a skewed and abstract perception of reality

take a dumbbell
now ohp it
if it traveled any direction but straight up and down
you're doing it wrong
your rotator cuff cannot defy the laws of gravity
now hang yourself from a palm tree retard

SURE the path of the dumbbells is PERFECTLY STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN
and you don't even need to retract your head to let a dumbbell pass!!!11
uh-oh! but your scapula and your rotator cuffs STILL DON'T FUCKING MOVE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN
uh-oh! but your shoulders MOVE ON THE SAGITTAL AND FRONTAL PLANE IF YOU USE DB TOO!
By the way, lever shoulder press machines DON'T MOVE ON VERTICAL PLANE IF THE PERFECT PATH IS STRAIGHT-UP-AND-DOWN!
Pottery!
Maybe because you can't move your back, shoulders and scapula freely when you're sitting in a lever machine and forced to use a fixated path?
Naaaah, it can't be!

but hey, let's restate
>idiotically and frantically that your rotator cuffs move on the same vertical plane
even if
>won't change the fact that they don't. It's not by chance that NO shoulder press machine moves on a literal vertical path
Let's add some kys variant too!

You are required if not some knowledge at least some interest in Veeky Forums-related stuff to post on this board. A complimentary IQ above 90 would be nice too. For mere shitposting you can head to but don't make it so blatantly evident that you're underage.

> Maybe because you can't move your back, shoulders and scapula freely when you're sitting in a lever machine and forced to use a fixated path?
uh yes you can. all of those things move just as freely
quit posting retard

preemptive response because you're slow and boring:
the only thing that doesn't move freely is the bar path

you arms, wrists, shoulders, elbows and back can all move around on a machine the only thing fixed is your hands to the bar and the path of it. now kys retard.

@42136776
@42136840
>my shoulder press machine dynamically adapts a NON-VERTICAL movement to my rotator cuff movements
uh-oh it doesn't
>it's not a FIXATED PATH even if IT'S FIXATED
uh-oh it doesn't
>I'll OHP PERFECTLY STRAIGHT UP in a lever machine already attempting to mimick frontal and sagittal OHP planes
>I'll introduce even more imbalances and asymmetries to fix a NON VERTICAL movement
>there are more OHP machines with different paths just to suit different PERFECTLY UNNATURAL NATURAL MOVEMENTS
but hey you can contort and adapt THE ROM OF YOUR CUFFS while you're sitting and forced over a fixed NON VERTICAL path!11

Enough.

see