Did Soviets really beat Japan in WW2, not America?

Lets set it straight, the vatniks like to claim that it was the Soviet entry to the war that made Nips surrender, not American A bombs. Is it really true? By the end of 1945 US was planning to drop 17 more bombs, as well as drop poisonous gas on Nip rice fileds, and cities, which was going to kill over 9 million Japanese according to estimates. That was all in preparation to Operation Downfall, American invasion of Japan. (US was going to mobilize over 5 million soliders/sailors/airmen for this operation, which surpassed in size even the scale of German Barbarossa Operation)

Your thoughts?

Other urls found in this thread:

dartmouth.edu/~dpress/docs/Press_Myth_of_Airpower_IS.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

There's a degree of truth to it, the Japanese were pretty deluded about the whole thing and trying use the USSR to negotiate a conditional surrender there was no way the Allies would accept, when the Soviets invaded it made that plan even more impossible and broke the last of any support the militarists still had

I see, but could US bring Japs to their knees on their own if SU did NOT actually declared war against Japan?

Japan was fucked, it was almost completely blockaded and getting bombed all the time, it just would have taken a little longer and maybe another 1 or 2 atom bombs

Soviet's weren't even at war with Japan until 1945. Saying that Soviets beat Japan is like saying USA beat nazi Germany

... But USA DID beat Nazi Germany.

Post pictures of American flag over reichstag

>Soviet's weren't even at war with Japan until 1945
Because the Soviets thrashed them in nomonhan in 1939 and after that the Japanese were terrified with them.

Soviet invasion of Manchuria was the main reason for their surrender, yes. Most of the Japanese army had been tied down in China for the whole war and when it got smashed (as well as all the resources and supply from China) it was pretty much the end for Japan.

U.S. firebombing of Tokyo did seem to be the deciding factor, as even with the Soviet forces closing in, the Japanese high command were 50 / 50 split on surrendering. The Emperor, having just visited firebombed Tokyo, broke the tie personally.

There's no need to post the American flag over the reichstag when American bombers flew over Berlin.

Bombing doesn't win wars. See Vietnam

The Gulf War wants to have a word with you.

So did Soviet bombers, hell the British bombed it in 1940, it's not exactly a unique feat

Uhmm... No? Soviets never bomber Berlin, you dumb fuck. Ruskies were too fucking dumb to even desing high altitude bomber, until they got their filthy hands on B29 and literally copied it screw by fucking screw.

Uhmm.. No? Most of the army was in Pacific. In China Japs only had 29 Divisions.

And no, America beat Japan alone. Soviets didn't do shit. Fucking Vatniks man...

And lets forget about the fucking nukes even... just like the OP said, In October of 1945 US was going to start dropping gas on Japs, and literally exterminate them by millions. Not even Germans were capable of killing that many in General plan Ost operation on the Eastern front.

Japs would have either surrendered to USA, or ceased to exist as a nation.

So I guess according to you the Germans beat the British and occupied London by flying their bombers over the parliament building?

L'URSS effectue son premier raid contre Berlin le 8 août 1941. Il s'agit d'un raid de 15 bombardiers-torpilleurs DB-3T des formations de l'aviation navale de la Flotte de la Baltique opérant depuis l'aéroport de Kuressaare sur l'île de Saaremaa en Estonie14. Des bombardiers Petliakov Pe-8 des unités de bombardement de l’aviation soviétique, le seul quadrimoteur soviétique construit durant la guerre, bombardèrent Berlin pendant la nuit du 10 au 11 août 1941.

really makes me think

Not the guy you were arguing with but there is strong criticism of that line of thinking when it comes to the Gulf War. See dartmouth.edu/~dpress/docs/Press_Myth_of_Airpower_IS.pdf

>high altitude bomber
Pe-8
>Soviets never bomber Berlin
First bombing was on august 7, 1941. Are you mentally ill and think that you are the only one here with access to rest of internet besides Veeky Forums?

lmao ask Sadam about that

Lmao try harder.

Might want to translate French wiki article in Google before posting it here.

Fucking please vatnik. Pe-8 was a piece of fucking shit, and only 93 were build before Ruskies withdrew it from service.

Nothing could have match technological mastery og Allied Lancasters, B17/B29.

Also, that small petty raid probably did not even scratch Berlin urban areas. Compare that to Fire tornado from Hanburg which literally fucking oblitherated the entire city on July 1943.

Vatniks can Hurr Durr about muh T34 and unarmed peasant charges all they want, but in the air Allies were the absolute masters. Ruskies were slaughtered by Lufftwaffe right untill mid 1943, when Germans were forced to divert 80% of their Eastern air force to counter Allied raids, and got destroyed.

Allied air supremacy also stopped Stalin from taking rest of Europe in 1945.

>message starts with bizarre slurs
>also "expert in aviation" claiming that Pe-8 was bad
>reddit spacing
Shouldn't Americans be sleeping right now?

Why the fuck do people even care about Reddit spacing. Admit it, I am right.

if you don't speak French and yet still post on Veeky Forums you're a barbarian and should shoot yourself, I say this as an American

>Soviets never bomber Berlin
>arguing against nothing
You made a claim and you were wrong. Deal with it faggot.

Hmm, so first it started off as
>Soviets never bombed Berlin
and that the
>Russians were too fucking dumb to even design a high altitude bomber

And now it has become
>The Soviet bombing of Berlin didn't inflict much damage
and
>The Soviet high altitude bomber was worse than the American bombers

You're really winning champ!

Manchukuo Army was the elite of the IJA, and most of the hard-liners who held power in Tokyo came from it. The fact that the soviets annihilated it without even dropping a sweat must have weighed a little in the peace talks.

Fuck you, I do not speak French monkey language.

Soviets DID NOT had a 10km high altitude bomber, until they literally stole American technology, you fucking vatnik nigger.

No, Manchuko army by that time was weakened because most of Elite divisions were already destroyed by Americans on the paciffic.

you're a barbarian then, sorry to break it to you

Easily yes

Stfu Fries nigger.

If the Japs had been completely out of their minds, and Downfall had to be launched, there would be absolutely no question that it was America that beat Japan.

But because the commies jumped in at the last minute and the war ended before the biggest fight since the Eastern Front began, they get to sit there and claim they won everything. Soviets claiming credit for Japan is like the Americans claoming credit for the Nazis - and, in fact, that claim is more valid.

Vietnam was limited bombing, and there was no access to the actual production facilities.
World War two was not limited, and the factories were very bombable.

Whatever helps you sleep at night Hans

>We, acting by command of and in behalf of the Emperor of Japan, the Japanese Government and the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, hereby accept the provisions set forth in the declaration issued by the heads of the Governments of the United States, China, and Great Britain on 26 July 1945 at Potsdam, and subsequently adhered to by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which four powers are hereafter referred to as the Allied Powers.

Signed on a US Navy ship in Tokyo Bay. There was a single token Soviet officer there.

I speak French and if you post on Veeky Forums in French you should shoot yourself.

>wanting to speak an inferior continental language

>There was a single token Soviet officer there.
MacArthur later threatened to have him arrested.

I am not German, I was just kidding. French are cool, I prefer them over Krauts.

Why??? Give me some context. I thought the Ruskie was Impressed with the show of American air might on Sept 2, with over 1000 thousand American planes flying over USS Independence.

how are American hypothetical plans relevant in any way? Did the Japanese have fortune tellers letting them know what would happen? Obviously not. The atomic bomb was pretty devastating but the Japanese had lost whole cities before. Sure, theoretically the Americans could now use far fewer planes for far more destruction, but I doubt the Japs thought they had that many bombs ready in 1945. It was just another shitty day. Now if you look at this map of the Pacific/East Asian war in August 1945 you'll notice that the Japs still held a lot of territory, especially in China. It would have been much more difficult for the US to cut off Japan and blockade it with these territories so closeby. The Japs would probably be emboldened by this and be more willing to fight on, as well as being able to move troops from these territories back to the islands. Thus when the Soviets threatened these territories it struck a serious blow to the japanese war machine and made further resistance futile. The Japanese leadership also feared the commies more than they feared americlaps so they would rather be dogs of the US then lined up against a wall.

>Japan fighting America
we will defenduru until the last japanese dies
>Soviets enter the war against Japan
fuck that we out

Why did Japan attack mutts anyway? Wasn't China enough?

the japanese top brass made a calculated gamble that they could hit fast and sue for peace before the US industry surpassed them. Even from the onset of the pacific theater japanese military leaders knew that they would not win a military conflict with the US past the six month mark.

needed resources to continue their conquest of China. If you look at the territories they seized, these were all resource rich.

Because they needed oil and rubber from SEA and America might interfere with that

No Australia did

But what was their endgame? Did they just attack pearl harbor and thought they can get away with it or there was invasion plan?

they didn't want to invade the united states; they wanted access to enough material resources to continue their military operations in China. So they took the dutch east indies, the Philippines, ect.
I don't know as much about the pearl harbor plan but I believe they had intel that a large portion of the United States fleet would be stationed there. The overall plan was to cripple the United States' Navy, quickly seize western-controlled territories in the Asia-Pacific, and anticipated that the immense speed and devastating effect of their attack -along with the war in Europe - would cause the western powers to quickly negotiate an end to the hostilities in a manner favorable for japan.

peut-être à d'autres panneaux, mais nous sommes dans Veeky Forums, un endroit civilisé

Good man

If you're dumb enough to think the Iraq war was an American victory, remember that Iraq is now literally an Iranian puppet state.

>Most of the Japanese army had been tied down in China for the whole war
China was full of newly raised and underequipped divisions. Nearly all of like 15 IJA divisions that were worth anything went to fight in the Pacific or Burma, except for a couple that stayed in the home islands.

An actual invasion of the continental US by Japan borders on comedy. The general plan was to catch the Americans off-guard at Pearl Harbor, where they believed that most of their naval fleet was docked, and that the blow would be crippling enough that the United States would be forced to negotiate with Japan, hopefully putting an end to things like oil restrictions that were getting in the way of their imperial ambitions.

Notice how Saddam was left in power after that war and the U.S. president wasn't re-elected...

The U.S. completed their main objectives (removing the Iraqi's from Kuwait) the old fashioned way: with tanks and infantry. Air support just softened things up for them.

>America beat Japan alone.
taking some unimportant islands in the pacific doesn't really do much. Japan's real power base was China, Burma, Philippines, Malaya, etc. The Chinese held the Japanese in China thorughout the war, and the Soviets were the main ones to end it.

>limited bombing
>Still dropped more ordnance than all nations of WW2 combined.

Sure, the targets were limited, but you still wouldn't have won the war with any targets available. You can't kill an idea with bombs.

Take all the pacific islands between Hawaii and SEA and use them as "unsinkable carriers"

Most in the high command thought it was a retarded idea to attack pearl harbour.

Yamamoto thought it was a great idea and threatened to resign if they didn't let him do it. So they had to let him do it (although they should have sacked him on the spot - but hey, coulda-woulda-shoulda).

The Japanese armed forces suffered from a complete lack of coordination between the navy and the army - both wanted to do their own things and had their own goals and leading personalities. They rarely worked well together and this was a big problem throughout the entire war. The Army wanted to expand into Burma and India, while the Navy wanted to control the pacific - which meant butting heads with the US.

Attacking Pearl harbor was the single dumbest thing the Japanese did in the entire war, they should have held off any hostilities with the U.S. as long as possible. Even invading Australia may not have bought the U.S. into the war - they are always loath to enter any world war until someone directly attacks them or threatens them with invasion (like the Germans trying to convince mexico to invade the U.S. in WW1).

Take Australia, India, NZ if you cbf, then use all your resources to attempt to attack the Soviets from behind. Without the US in the war D Day would be put off at least a year, if not indefinitely, so the Germans and the Japanese might have a chance to crush the Soviets by 1943. or 1944

It would've been a combination of both Soviets entering the war and the American bombings, duh

Japan's official surrender took place on the USS Missouri, an American warship. The Soviets would probably have preferred for it to take place on one of their own warships, or a comparatively neutral location like Korea or Formosa.