National Identity Is Made Up

nytimes.com/video/world/100000005660651/national-identity.html?smprod=amp®ion=img

Thoughts? Is there something to this or is it horseshit?

Horseshit

Language is also made up. That doesn't mean its not real.

dude.... money.... is just like... pieces of paper

Everything is a human invented concept at the end of the day.
Doesn't mean it has no place.

Everything is made up

Read Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson if you want to understand nationalism, instead of looking at NYT meme videos

None of this shit is "made up", you absolute retards

Social constructs are by definition made up

Language and tribe are products of nature, not society

>identifying just based on borders
Lmao, there couldn’t possibly be any sort of cohesive factors acting on the individuals within the borders

How are journalists real tbqh

Oy vey, these goys are right, fellow gentiles.

No actually.
Tribes/ethnic affiliation are social constructs as well

Its amazing how NYT can take such a basic element of nationalism - the fact that it is essentially a social construct (which in no way implies it is any less real, just that it is a social construct) - and make such a cringy, enraging, and shallow video upon the subject.

>>>/leftypol/

...

human beings are social constructs. Their is no objective reason to think of us as any different from the matter and energy that surrounds us.

>>>/leftypol/

It's all literally fucking memes.

Nope human beings are physical entities that exist in reality not abstract concepts, so they are by definition not social constructs. Nice try though brainlet

social constructs are a result of nature, nature is a result of social constructs

the rocks around you are physical constructs

you are made of the same atoms as them, how it is formed does not matter. they are all just atoms.
all your actions and thoughts (also compositions of atoms) are predetermined by what laws of the universe have for us.

you merely attribute value to your own sentience.

I think I just might. Thanks.

>religions we had for millenia are still around
>almost no national identities older than 1000 years exist anymore (no Illyrians, Gauls, Goths, Cumanians etc.)
>immigrants assimilate in a few generations everywhere
>meanwhile, Jews live as minority for almost 2000 years
>never assimiliate fully due to their religion

Religon >>>>> national identity

>pagan roots got wiped out by Christianity/Islam/Buddhism in most of the planet
>people still prefer to be ruled by people with the same national identity/ethnicity when possible
Jews are an outlier like Gypsies.

>implying (((their))) religion isn't an extension of (((their))) national identity

my federal taxes earned me my national identity.

>pagan roots get forcibly wiped out by Christianity
>traditional tribal/ethnic identities get destroyed shortly after

You just proved my point.

>people still prefer to be ruled by people with the same national identity/ethnicity when possible

This has just been the case recently, European kingdoms had foreign dynastic rulers for centuries before the 19th century, local noblemen invited foreign kings to the throne all the time.

>nytimes

As middlebrow as you cant get

National identity is indeed made up. what is real however are the blood relations. Any (North)-African can share the same nationality as I do but that does not make them a Dutchman like me, a fellow national at best.

>national identity primes us for dictatorship, racism, genocide

Damn I can't believe those things didn't exist before nationalism

>Language
Conventions on meaning of sound signals.

>tribe
Tribe is not a nation.

Post proof that they did.

>there were no males who had not seen Rocky IV

Son, I am proud

>Conventions on meaning of sound signals.
Not a natural trait at all. Clearly just a construct of society. How are we going to form society without communication again?
>Tribe is not a nation.
It literally is

if national identity is made up then try crossing into north korea

>the absolute state of /leftyhis/

This dichotomy is made up.
Society is a product of nature too, and intervenes in natural phenomenon.
What is made up is natural and what is natural can be made up.

>Nationality... just based on boarders

Ben Anderson: Imagined Communities.

>This dichotomy is made up.
But natural

>implies the nation state leads to National Socialist Germany
>Doesn't mention it was the nation state of Britain and Winston Churchill's nationalism that resulted in the defeat of Hitler

Yeh, it kind of turns out that people aren't willing to lay down their lives to defend a patch of land on a cost-benefit analysis.

How retarded are globalists that they ignore how humans work to justify their pipe dream.

My thoughts exactly. For the most part the video isn't ""wrong"" in any sense, it just entirely glosses over the nuance and reality of the subject to instead focus on appealing to deluded internet liberals. Journalism needs a time out.

Journalism should be outlawedd tbqh familia at this point it's entirely negative to society.

Mathematics is made up, designs for bridges and toasters are made up, almost everything is made up besides things that just fell into our lap, what a useless observation.

Also of note is him pinning various things like genocide and bullying behavior on nationalism. Nothing brings people together more than blood and soil nationalism, the North Vietnamese and Russians were fighting for their country, not because they liked communism, the USSR could not dissolve the eastern bloc into a communist soup because nationalism thrived and persisted even in countries it had totalitarian control over, it had to set up puppet regimes, for what that's worth.

Demarcation lines are a good tool in negotiation, if someone dares cross them it proves they don't care about simple agreements and so can't be negotiated with. To some this looks like lunacy. It is just an imaginary line! However it makes more sense if you look at appeasement.

Nationalism is not perfect. If 2 nations are utterly convinced Widgetville is their rightful territory and backing down will only invite further demands and aggression from a belligerent state, it will become a source of hostility. However in order to understand the mechanics of this you have to understand negotiation and the importance of standing your ground, you have to understand why people are nationalist. If you're a sophist trying to make nationalists look like superstitious fools like this guy, you won't go into it, so that is why he doesn't mention it. To him nationalism is just a magical spell that makes people hate each other and that is why you shouldn't stand your ground or care about your nation, that is why we must appease islamic extremists.

ancient Greece you dumbfuck
>whoever's not Greek is a barbarian

jew shit

>>Tribe is not a nation.
>It literally is
For one there is quite a scale difference between the two.

There are Romans, Persians, Chinese

Everything else is Barbarian.

That's it.

So England and Wales is Roman but Scotland and Ireland are barbarian?

>Literally only connects the negatives of national identity with white/European example
Gee what a surprise

I'm not watching the video but will post in this thread regardless. I would say that national identity is one of the few things that holds a nation together. There will always be tension between people of different national identities, especially of immigrants who do not assimilate to their new culture. I would say a cultural identity that transcends national borders is equally important as a national identity.

>nation state of Britain and Winston Churchill's nationalism that resulted in the defeat of Hitler

You mean the multicultural British Empire played 3rd wheel to multicultural USA and multicultural USSR defeating ethnonationalist Germany, Italy, Croatia, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia?

>nationstate of Britain
What a dumb thing to say, ignoring the fact that the entire current commonwealth fought world war 2, Britain itself isn't a nation state, it contains 4 distinct peoples, 6 if you're every particular about things.

kys Romeboo

SOCIETY IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT!

You're just making that up.

>Its amazing how NYT can

What the Times can do used to amaze me., I just sort of expect it now.

>>This dichotomy is made up.
>But natural

Natural is a made up concept.

>everything i dont like is made up: the prog's guide to rhetoric

Romans are barbarians tho, also you left out Greeks and Egyptians.

>natural
>social construct

This

If you want to break it down Germany and Italy were somewhat multicultural too. There's more difference between a Sicilian and a Venetian than a Scot and an Englishman.

>human beings are physical entities that exist in reality not abstract concepts

prove it

Britain's nationalism was not at all like the "aryan" hyper-nationalism of the Nazis. To the Nazis, the German race essentially became God.

While this is a stupid article, I dont understand why some people think nation-state are the end game of tribalism. They are a fairly recent development and in regard to what happened in the past to previous level of tribalism, it only makes sense that nation-states will band together gradually to escape irrelevancy.

I hope there's an alien invasion so that we turn humanity into the new tribe

It'll still be tribalism, and we'll probably end up genociding innocent Xlandorians or something, but hey at least it wouldn't be ourselves

They are already here, we call them the Chinese

laws are also made up

that doesn't mean you should ignore laws (unless you are some retarded ANCAP)

Everything is a social construct.

Nation-states are simply a way for a state to pacify its population through nationalism. Dislike state policies? That's un(nation)!
Now, don't get me wrong, I love my nation. I love our history. I just don't like my government. And, living in a new one, I would very much like to live only around my nation. But not all of my nation. I want tons of states for my nation, potentially. I don't want being against state policies to be seen as being against national interests.

>article written by two jews
Knew it before i opened it

yes actually, genes, population groups and kin selection do exist bud

You don't know what Ancap is at all.

>Society is a social construct
No Shit! Is this what passes for intellectual discourse these days.

>it only makes sense that nation-states will band together gradually to escape irrelevancy.
No

user most jews are atheist.
Most of them didn't even speak hebrew outside of rituals till the creation of israel.

He knows that they are retarded which is enough for a normal person.

You're a retard.

Atleast I'm not retarded enough to think that living in an anarchy is a good idea.

>WW2 USA
>At all “multicultural” compared to Paco’s 56% Green Card Wonderland
More than Germany, sure, but the population was not very diverse at all, at least in the modern definition.

Ancap isn't about living in anarchy. At least try to understand what it is before trying to criticise it.
Do you want me to explain what it is?

t. la creatura americana

>any idea that don't follow my ideology is madeup and need to be destroyed
t.

Ancap is about things that exist a priore (before reality) like private property and liberalism

Also the concept of Invented Tradition by Hobsbawm

>jewish marxist
no thanks

Ancap is all about property. It's the logical extreme of believing in private property.
Ancap is not a political belief. It's a philosophy about the right of government. No person or organization has the right to rule anyone who didn't consent to being governed, but people can sign contracts and consent to being governed. Ancap is not anti-government.

>nationality is made up and bad m'kay t. some soyboy

>here's napoleon taking his crown from the pope
>highlights a bishop other than the pope
Fuck this guy

Nations are spooks.

so NY is arguing that Jewish national identity is made up?

...

>Nation-states are simply a way for a state to pacify its population through nationalism
bullshit, proven by nations that fought for their nation states to be formed, even as they were occupied for example Poles

America is a better example

>the multicultural British Empire
Controlled completely by the British themselves.
>multicultural USA
Was 90% white and increasing, white nationalism had become the standard. That is, until your imbecile austrian tainted its name forever

If Hitler had won, Germany would have become the most multicultural nation in the West.

Yeah nationalism is cancer, it's holding us back from uniting humanity and the world as one.

So are human rights.