Thermodynamics BTFO yet again

Congrats on the 10% body fat rippedbrah, but your IQ seems to be hovering around the 10s too. Godspeed

Yeah disregard studies from the best public university in the world

the research does nothing to contradict the concept of CICO or "a calorie is a calorie" whatsoever.

all it does is suggest that there may be some bizarre link between the sense of smell and metabolism. so basically, the sense of smell is reducing the amount of calories these mice burn. while that's a strange (and, to me, unexpected) outcome, it doesn't undermine any of the conventional wisdom on human health or weight loss / weight gain. I highly doubt people will be temporarily disabling their sense of smell in order to lose weight as a result of this study.

this study does not violate the laws of thermodynamics. weight change still equals calories in minus calories out, and a calorie is still a calorie.

Exactly. And they got published. So they did this.

heres the paper btw: sci-hub.io/10.1016/j.cmet.2017.06.015

So we should treat obesity by removing their sense of smell?

Oh look its the physics police telling me what laws of thermodynamics I can and cant break.

Why dont you poindexters mind your own business. I dont know what you have against pegging but Im sick of you fags sticking your noses where they dont belong

>Dampen taste sensory on an animal
>Be surprised when it eats less
>Try to use this "study" to debunk CICO because you are a liberal hamplanet at Berkley trying to justify that the amount of food being shoveled into your fat face isnt whats making you fat

kek

if you read the study or even the screencap you will see they literally ate the SAME AMOUNT of food

thats the WHOLE POINT of the study

Didn't bother to read the study, but OPs pic claims they ate the same amount, and somehow by magic, smell is solely responsible for the size difference.

you probably also believe everything the president of the united states says, right?

A calorie is still a calorie. Remember to compare apples to apples. That means:

-All else equal, you will get fat if you take 2x calories compared to taking 1x calories.

Here they modified the genes:
"The researchers used gene therapy to destroy olfactory neurons in the noses of adult mice but spare stem cells"

Which led to all hormonal changes in the mouse's body. Which led to a "different" metabolism. So it's not surprising to see different results.

>ITS IN A STUDY SO ITS TRUE
This study was a failure as it is not reproduceable

Im claiming its horseshit

>same diet
but were calories equated?
Obviously not.
This has nothing to do with the whole a calorie is a calorie spiel.

> not reproduceable

wtf are you smoking

>same diet

100 dollarydoos says this actually means the mice were given access to the same kind of food but an unspecified amount of it so that the one who could smell enjoyed eating more and therefore ate more.

>Thus, our data support the notion that reduced olfactory output triggers a metabolic response mimicking the cessation of feeding and thus leads to catabolic energy utilization needed to protect animals from a high caloric diet

Interesting tbqh
The way your body "interprets" your food is part of the equation
A calorie is not really a calorie if your body doesn't know a calorie is incoming

it says in the goddamn study and image they ate the same amount. the food was weighed and they were given the same food

jesus fucking christ this isnt fucking rocket science

you people have no science background at all, or understanding of the basic requirements to get into a journal.

fucking hell

The study cannot be done anywhere else in the world unless you were to fudge variables. University studies have such low reproduceability these days as they are done by fucking retards who dont give a fuck and pump them out for grant money hoping no one finds their bullshit

Another way to eat the same amount and lose weight:

eat cold/reheated pasta NOT fresh

sciencealert.com/heating-your-pasta-makes-it-significantly-better-for-you

>smell is solely responsible for the size difference.
Exact. If only we had access to the paper...oh wait, we have.

No. Thats not how that fucking works at all or else people would die on IV from malnutrition

I AM BEING TROLLED HELP

Maybe smell is somehow linked to IGF-1 production?

Pretty interesting study Tbh

>No. Thats not how that fucking works
Yes, that's how that fucking works. It's there, read it.

I don't understand. So all those people who lost weight by counting calories and exercising are liars or something?

I don't see the point of these studies, we KNOW that if you eat less calories you will lose weight, what do these scientists hope to achieve through these studies? A more efficient weight loss method? I doubt that will ever happen.

Eat less. Exercise more. Be disciplined.

There are other explanations.

We investigated the role of OSNs in the control of energy balance.
To this end, we examined the consequence of genetically
ablating the ability of animals to smell, by disrupting OSNs, on
whole-body energy homeostasis in lean and obese animals.
We find that mice with reduced olfaction, i.e., hyposmia, are
leaner upon diet-induced obesity (DIO) either before or after
the onset of obesity. These animals exhibit increased energy
expenditure and enhanced fat burning capacity as a consequence
of enhanced sympathetic nerve activity in BAT and
iWAT. Conversely, we describe that conditional ablation of the
IGF1 receptor in OSNs results in enhanced olfactory perception.
Complementing the results observed in the hyposmic animals,
these hyperosmic mice have increased adiposity and insulin
resistance. Collectively, the results reveal a critical role for olfactory
sensory perception in coordinately regulating peripheral
metabolism via control of autonomic innervation.

you're a smart guy

Oxford? Cambridge?

>So all those people who lost weight by counting calories and exercising are liars or something?
No, obviously if you limit the caloric intake you'll limit the caloric intake; and the article in OP is not challenging this.
>I don't see the point of these studies
it's pretty important to know that's not just "a calorie" to determine if and how much you'll lose or gain weight. Metabolism is involved and it can be triggered THAT much with smell alone. Sorry if someone touched your calorie dogma, but humans aren't perfect thermodynamic machines. At all. Our energetic pathways are hormonally regulated. Knowing these pathways is key and anything but pointless.

hell yeah put those fucking dorks in their place dawg

It's interesting but at the same time the way the media portrays this study is a negative influence on fat people and their motivation. Not to be a tumblr faggot about it but it's without a doubt a disincentive to bring studies like this to the limelight until a solution and human test has been done.

That's just my opinion on the matter.

Not even the best public school in the states

I agree, even if there is something here, its still not very well understood, not tested on humans, and will send fatties deeper into the void because this is going to be posted on every social media page of anyone over 25% bodyfat

This is correct

>tfw no sense of smell and still overweight

What would you say is better

for you

Just imagine how fat you would have been otherwise!

A calorie is a calorie. What this demonstrates is that calories burned is dependent on the body taking in said calories. It's almost as if the body uses smell and taste to trigger a reaction in the body to utilize the incoming calories effectively. If only someone had thought of that before... Oh wait, they have and it's such common knowledge that food products are designed with that phenomenon in mind. Nothing new here and no contradictions.

That's not excuse not to do research and not to publish results. Censoring scientific facts because fatties are retarded is not an excuse.
Who wants to find an excuse will always find one.

>youll never be able to enjoy food the way nature intended
>but at least youre not as fat as you could be
T-thanks bro

A calorie is still and will always be a calorie.

The nervous system can affect metabolism, this isn't news. The perception of smells can signal other tissues in the body to alter their energy utilization. Considering the olfactory nerve is projected straight from the limbic system it's really not that surprising. The study is trying to better understand the role CNS function has on metabolism.

This isn't magic. This isn't propaganda. This is scientific experimentation.

A smart person would find this interesting.

you have it mixed up. the one without smell didn't get fat.

anyone who tracks there macros looks like shit lmao at iifymers

Wouldn't the obvious next step be to take two mice with suppressed smell and feed one more than the other? If the one that's fed more becomes bigger then it's a question of sense of smell affecting metabolism, not CICO being wrong.

Michigan

And please don't use undergraduate statistics to argue. I'm willing to hear arguments why I'm wrong but undergrads should have no bearing on the quality of a school

Overall they're about equal, Berkeley has an edge in math, michigan has an edge in law, generally the two are a wash though. What sets michigan out to me is that it has a medical school. Still, Berkeley is probably the second best ahead of ucla and Virginia

I see why my wording might make you think that. Smelling food triggers an insulin response and insulin pushes nutrients into cells for storage thus causing weight gain. That along with other hormonal processes appear to have been dulled or prevented. Although possibly worded in a confusing way, I didn't mix it up.

Too last to read. Anyone who read it: did they look at more than weight? Like does the skinny one have dangerously high blood sugar and lipids, arteriolar sclerosis, heart disease etc since it doesn't appear to be storing the extra calories properly?

underrated

Weight gain is a function of the tastyness of the calorie?

if i eat bland food i'll gain less weight?

>when eating a chow diet high in fiber carbs and low in fat the weight between the smell inhibited mice and control mice was the same
In other words if you eat healthy food, this doesn't make a difference.

Also
>4 out of 8 of the test weeks the smell inhibited mice on a high fat diet DID eat 0.5-1g more or 25-50% more food

This is a shitty study and it only made it into a journal because it goes against common knowledge in science and it is most likely not reproducible with similar results.

Forgot file

>4 out of 8 of the test weeks the smell inhibited mice
*the control mice who gained more weight

oh. my bad! I see what you meant now.

Did they check to see what exactly the mice were eating and how much of it? If they just dropped a mixture of pic related into their bowl the weight could have easily been caused by the mouse with a stronger sense of smell going after food with the highest density of calories.

my bet is that by lossing the sense of smell the mice entered a state of stress due to not being able to sense their surroundings therefor more active and with a higher tdee

The process happens in potatoes and many types of rice too. It forms what is known as a resistant starch with effects similar to a fiber food. Improves insulin sensitivity.

This is a good line of thought. If you look at the mice with the inhibited smell took significantly longer to locate food in an experiment so they probably had to make up their sense of smell in general with a higher activity. Stress in general also increases metabolism. Cortisol is known in bodybuilding for it's muscle burning properties but it's catabolic in general, meaning it doesn't discern muscle or fat, it makes your body burn anything for calories so when your body is under constant stress, you'll lose weight.

I agree, but the idea that the smell deprived mice were stressed/had hormonal changes doesn't explain why the super smeller mice got fatter than the normal ones.

>public
>one of
I swear to allah, you have to try to be this retarded.

/thread

GOTTA BASH SOME NERDS

This is how it went in the study, yeah

How do you believe this when millions of people are fed through feeding tubes /IV and it doesn't have a significant impact despite them not smelling it?

I doubt this study can be reproduced

>all it does is suggest theres a link between smell and metabolism

where is the link? i see a link between scent and weight gain. where do you see metabolism anywhere in the study?

holy fuck. from reading this thread it seems 90% of fit is absolutely stupid as fuck. cant believe i used to ask you people for advice

You should read "Scale" by Geoffrey West. You'll learn a lot of how metabolism and mammals differ, especially as the size or scale increases.

Mice, which have a very fast metabolism are very likely to get things like cancer, while whales, which have very slow metabolisms, almost never gets cancer

hmm that sounds very interesting actually. Ill check it out. Thanks!

How do you guys count when out with co-workers, eating in high-end restaurants and shit?

estimate then add 250 calories because every cooking """"PROFFESIONALS"""" just use 300g of cooking oil on everything to make it taste good

Maybe fatties at the university fudged the study?

> fudged

heh

Unless you're the kind of faggot to eat out every second day, you don't.
Indulging once in a while doesn't matter

SIR, are you watching?

...

U tel M chad!!1

>small mammal that relies heavily on a certain bodily function
>remove that bodily function
>surprised when that mammal gains weight despite not having a certain outlet to burn calories anymore

gee wiz

Unless you're a human that is sniffing everything it see's literally 98% of the time you're awake then this study isn't going to effect you.

The one that cant smell is the thin one

>have really bad allergies
>nose completely blocked by mucus at any given time
>haven't been able to breath through it properly since summer started
>haven't lost any weight

Okay, cool, so we're still not mice since I last checked.

Nice OP. I'll just let every combats sports athlete who has their weight loss/gain down to a science know that they can just plug their nose instead of working out to make weight now.

read the actual paper. your fallacious argument is fallacious. not smelling doesn't equate not assuming food. please turn your brain on sometimes.

you're wildly underestimating the role of smell in human taste. if you black out your smell you won't even be able to taste food in an even remotely fashion you're accustomed to. hope you don't ever experience it.

>published in elsevier journal

not science

I've experienced depression which blocked out my sense of taste an appetite altogether. However I'm not sure how tasting something can influence the actual physical makeup of what's being tasted or how the body processes it. That's the study people need to wait on before they start making assumptions.

Where do they prove that this is actually the case? If they don't, then fuck you

>bunch of people arguing about a study without having ready the entire text of the study

hahah

The part that's left out is that the mice without smell don't have all the pleasure neurons firing and the chain reaction of chemicals also fire off causing a desire to eat more fatty food and an increase of insulin in the body
The energy is being stored rather than being lost. Thermodynamics still is in play.

CICO remains

Lmao @ Veeky Forums having their world shattered

Gasoline has lots of calories but doesn't get me fat. Checkmate CICO frauds.

>UC Berkeley

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*Breaths in*