He's very dogmatic. He's never coached an elite lifter. His programming prioritizes lifting heavy weights in the short term over all the other long-term drivers of success in the weight room and on the athletic field (conditioning/work capacity being one of the most important that he misses). He has this idea that every novice who can do power cleans must do power cleans, even though this almost invariably results in a weak beginner doing muscle cleans with garbage form, and virtually everyone else agrees that jumps, throws, and sprints are better than power cleans for developing explosiveness.
He doesn't believe that machines and isolation movements have any purpose in the programs of serious lifters, even though virtually every elite lifter does these exercises. He has a decent physiological analysis of the lifts, but he thinks that there's only one good way to perform the lifts, when the reality of lifting is that form differs greatly among good lifters.
He has this idea that because beginners are able to add weight to the bar every session, they must do so, and if they don't do so then beginner gains are "wasted". In reality, because beginners progress well on any program, it doesn't particularly matter what program they do. The best program for beginning lifters is one that develops the full range of athletic qualities (strength, explosiveness, propioception, conditioning, etc.), which is what lifters did before the Starting Strength craze took off. 5/3/1 for Beginners is a good program that does this. Coincidentally, this is also what the Russians do, and they dominate the U.S. in powerlifting at every level.
If I tried I could probably think of more problems I have with him, but that's probably enough for now. I did run Starting Strength, a long time ago. Thankfully, some lifters who were much stronger that I was set me right.
My beef with Rip is that very heavy compounds wreck your joints over time, including his own, yet he still evangelizes this shit.
Juan Williams
FPBP
Sebastian Reed
>can't argue with OP for once
Aiden Mitchell
What do I do then faggot
Leo Thomas
5/3/1
Dominic Murphy
I'm a beginner doing strong lifts, how bucked am I?
Nolan Morales
Everyone here says it's shit. Is it worth switching to if I'm at intermediate level on everything but bench?
Oliver Cruz
i was on ss, did sl and then 5/3/1
seriously thinking about switching to bulgarian because of pic related
Jose Scott
Assistance lifts?
Jaxon Garcia
>as a beginner Idiot. Hopefully you hopped from a routine to another in less than 6 months. I guess you can't lift shit yet you feel the need to find the "most perfect" routine for a noob. kys any routine with a linear progression is fine for you head back to plebbit and kys my man
Dominic Sanchez
on 5/3/1? I do pendlay rows, chin ups, back extensions as assistance
Before i would screw around with a lot of stuff.
If i switch to eric's bulgarian ima max out on every variation of the big 3 and rotate
Oliver James
thats over a year and a half mate, im on 155/250/360/450 for 5RM. I know it's not good but enough to switch to bulgarian
Ayden Davis
>155/250/360/450 for 5RM >overhead press 70 kg for 5 reps >bench 114 kg for 5 reps >squat 163 kg for 5 reps >deadlift 200 kg for 5 reps
>in a year and a half, just ss and sl and that's how I know you're just spreading a lot of larping bullshits. probably you don't even know how a 200 kg barbell looks like. kys
Brayden Hughes
actually, 450 lbs are 204 kg even better
Chase Wright
is that too much for someone at 200 lbs? Im literally proficient migrating to advanced at symmetric strength
Ethan Long
>is that too much for someone at 200 lbs? Im literally proficient migrating to advanced at symmetric strength and that's how I know you're just spreading a lot of larping bullshits AGAIN. You probably entered a weight in symstrength and forgot to adjust for reps. 204 kg on deadlift FOR 5 REPS is nearing EXCEPTIONAL, even for someone allegedly at 90 kg. Definitively not obtainable with natty beginner routines in 18 months. kys my man
Christian Brooks
>this reddit pasta True though.
Isaiah Gray
dude, just throw the stats on it, 450 diddly for 5 reps its a bit past proficient u fucking weakling, and i did 5/3/1
Hudson Sanchez
>pic This is a pretty good shop
Ethan Ramirez
>a bit past proficient no, it isn't, just fucking learn to use symstrength if you are gonna larp, idiot. >u fucking weakling ah, namecalling. I namecall your bullshits, anyone with half a brain and a minimum of experience knows yours are bullshits. 200 kg for reps is enough for powerlifting meetings. And I'm skipping on the other inanitities. Don't even bother to reply to me again without pic + timestamp.
Levi Peterson
>grasping for straws >copypasta >gonna respond anyway There is no perfect routine; all come with flaws (Lifting has innate side effects that are present in all of them). Of all the beginner programs, I have personally found SS to be the best. And no, recommending an alternate program that is literally the same thing as SS with slight modification (That you are shilling for because you make money off of it) doesn't make it not SS.
Buy an eight dollar book -Or just watch his free videos online- and you have the best option for serious beginner. Don't do GOMAD.
Isaiah Mitchell
Seems like OP didn't really listen to what uncle rippy had to say
Ryder Peterson
>dude, just throw the stats on it, 450 diddly for 5 reps its a bit past proficient I did and it literally isn't "a bit past proficient", it's 2/3 halfway between advanced and exceptional
Eli Garcia
His diet advice is great..... If you want to be a fat fuck
Lucas Nguyen
Jumps, throws and sprints are better than power cleans for developing explosiveness.
Stopped reading this bullshit there, but well done for triggering me enough to reply.
Juan King
It's not shit, you progress with amrap rep PRs short term that turn into 1rm PRs in the long term, it's still progression but it's not as easy to compare amrap numbers vs a 1rm measurement.
William Cook
do a basic bodybuilding split. google
Ryder Flores
...
Dylan Carter
lol you said mean things to everyone except you were civil with the guy who called the other guy a faggot because he's like your being-mean buddy.
Angel Phillips
seconding this
Owen Barnes
kek
Jose Lopez
I agree on all the points about not being sustainable for your joints. However I made some of my best progress doing ss and tm while bulking. His advice is alright if you have your recovery on point but it's not sustainable in the long run.
Jason Barnes
People who barbell squat are so f****** gay. They're neckbeards who need an arsekicking.
Brandon Perry
Literally what's wrong with America/this board/the entire English internet
Mason Cruz
citation needed
Lincoln Walker
Post your lifts
Dominic Moore
Add in accessory immediately and swap into a PPL when u are confident in the gym (2-3 months) continue with progress as SL teaches till u absolutely plateau. Unless you are underage b& this should be sometime past 1/2/3/4
Owen Howard
What if I specifically want a program that is 3/week and has weekly progression? 5/3/1 is monthly and 4/week, it doesn't fit. Literally the only programs that do fit are TM and Madcow.
Agree but SS is actually good with Plugins at least til you bleed gains dry. I'd argue Greyskull LP is the best beginner routine til you bleed it dry.
Hudson Parker
>that guy who shills SL/SS but doesn't even go to the gym
Dylan Martin
>he's never coached an elite lifter Just from top of my head Joseph Pena Jordan Fingenbaum or how the hell do you spell it Justin Lascek made it into weightlifting nationals under Rip
Also, it's not the purpose of his work to coach elite lifters and he says that often - he specializes solely in coaching novices.
Owen Martinez
Remember him? Try not to gasp at how he looks right now!
Chase Jackson
I did SS and desu if I could go back and do it all over again I would do PPLPPL linear progression maybe starting with 6 reps and working my way down to 3s for the big lifts, making sure to do a lot of body building accessories. I honestly think building muscle is the most important thing for new lifters. And lots of reps with the competition lifts for good ingrained technique.
I wish someone would have told me this when I started.
Wyatt Murphy
He doesn't coach feigenbaum
Feigenbaum got strong by doing RTS, mike tuscherers stuff
Grayson Collins
yeah go ahead and deadlift conventional for a week straight
enjoy the ride
Liam Miller
>gym 6 days a week You not have other shit to do in life?
I guess if you skip leg days it's only 4 a week...
Aiden Brooks
>He's very dogmatic. >implying this is bad >implying you can let people do whatever bullshit they want and get away with it just so no one calls you "dogmatic"
literally fitness SJW
Parker Wright
DOOT
Ethan Jenkins
Dude looks like shit, I pity those who fell for the GOESTROGENIC meme.
Ryan Gomez
You are missing the point. Yes, you are right, he is dogmatic. He still provides valuable information. It's up to you to evaluate it and decide what to do with it.
Rippetoe/Starting Strength is mainly about one thing: To get weak people strong in a short period of time. That's it. And for that purpose, the system works very well. Others do too, but that's the free market, you have options.
Novices need someone to hold their hand and spell everything out for them. They don't need options, they need simple instructions. SS does this very well.
Joseph Young
It's bad when your dogmas are based on a complete lack of knowledge. Milk is shit, dude looks like shit and he's just too far up in his ego to see how shit is diet is. That and the opiate addiction he has from the casomorphins in milk making it hard to drop.
Easton Turner
Is the Starting Strength program recommended if your (you're) the bottom in a homosexual (faggot) relationship?
Chase Roberts
How fucking retarded are you? He's not a bodybuilder, he doesn't give a shit about how he looks. And GOMAD isn't "his diet", it's a tool for skeletons who struggle to gain weight. >GOMAD is for underweight young men >underweight >young >men >And not for the rest of their lives, because at some point they're not going to be underweight anymore >(and not young anymore) >(and today, you can never be sure if they won't be male anymore) Did you read the book or are you just going from memes you saw on Veeky Forums?
Jose Richardson
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying except for your conclusion that he's shit. When you've been around for a while you start to realize that most people have something useful to contribute while also spewing some bullshit. Absorb what is useful, discard what is not. I've been studying everything fitness related for 8 or 9 years and I don't think I can name a single person or book that I agree with 100% on everything.
Oliver Flores
>you not have other shit to do in life
Now I do yeah. I only lift 4 days a week now. But when I stRted and I was in college? No I definitely could have lifted 6 days a week and it's a shame I didn't
Jacob Butler
>any routine with a linear progression is fine for you Linear progression is garbage. Linear periodization is GOAT.
Adrian Morales
It's fine when you're just starting out. I agree however that most people should abandon it sooner than they do. Linear periodization is a good next step.
Bentley Peterson
>he specializes solely in coaching novices LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Austin Walker
linear periodization? overview for noob?
Lucas Nguyen
>Learn to evaluate and not to waste your prescious time
Thomas Kelly
Start doing high reps like 12-15. Keep adding weight and reduce the reps as the weeks go by. Start over a little heavier next time.
Blake Adams
>He has this idea that because beginners are able to add weight to the bar every session, they must do so If you're able to increase progressive overload every session, I don't see why you wouldn't want that. Getting stronger is obviously going to get you bigger. That's not to say that high volume pump workouts don't have their place, but it's not something a beginner should be doing.
Progressive overload will give the most amount of muscle mass, it's just that there is going to be a point where you cannot progress as fast as you previously could and other types of workouts will at that point garner more muscle mass.
I don't agree with doing starting strength and no accessory work, but I think if you combine it with some accessories, it's a fine beginner program for both strength and muscle gains.
Charles Cruz
cheers mate
Eli Allen
>but he thinks that there's only one good way to perform the lift
Did you even read the book? In almost every section he mentions how lifts will look different between each person depending on the different lengths of their bones.
Wyatt Nguyen
Ok, my bad.
Joshua Rivera
Cbf to tidy up the formatting that pasting from .pdf creates. Here it is, SS 3, chapter 8: It is possible, and quite likely, that skinny kids on this program will gain 10-15 pounds of bodyweight in the first two weeks of a good barbell training program, provided they eat well. "Well" means four or so meals per day, based on meat and egg protein sources, with lots of fruit and vegetables and lots of milk. Lots. Most sources within the heavy-training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 3500- 6000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition. Although these numbers produce much eyebrow-raising and cautionary statement-issuing from the registered-dietetics people, it is a fact that these numbers work well for the vast majority of people who lift weights, and these numbers have worked well for decades. One of the best ways to move in the direction of these numbers is to drink a gallon of milk a day, most especially if weight gain is a primary concern. A gallon of whole milk per day, added to the regular diet at intervals throughout the day, will put weight on any skinny kid. Really. The problem is getting them to do it. It is apparently a persistent tendency, since about 1990, for boys to think they need a "six pack," although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
Jeremiah Robinson
unnecessary over-complication for a beginner. linear progression is the best route until you plateau.
Jaxon Gonzalez
kys >past 1/2/3/4 please stop perpetrating this shitty, unbalanced metric.
