What caused Western hand to hand combat to be near extinct...

What caused Western hand to hand combat to be near extinct? A lot of them share similar moves to Asian martial arts but yet it is only the Asian ones that get popularized

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>boxing
>kickboxing
>greco roman, freestyle wrestling
>mma

asian martial arts are Total memes. If you exclude muay Thai and related south east asian combat sports, which are arguably the most brutal hand to hand combat sports, you have Brazilian jiu jitsu and kyokushin karate, both of which were a clear break with tradition and its asiatic origin. One of which was even developed by scottish immigrants (gracie family).

Just lol if you think stuff like aikido, kungfu, taekwondo, shotokan karate,... are in any way practical or efficient. They were/are memed in an incredible way though. Only fat midlifecrisis suffering retards and gullible kids who watched too much jackie chan fall for le martial arts scam

>What caused Western hand to hand combat to be near extinct?
The continual improvement of gunpowder weapons making getting close enough to fight hand to hand more and more remote.

> A lot of them share similar moves to Asian martial arts but yet it is only the Asian ones that get popularized
A lot of asian martial arts went exctinct too. The ones that survived were usually ones that tried to tie some sort of msyticism/religious system into bodily fitness and combat prowess, and passed themselves off as more spiritual systems than true methods of fighting.

kickboxing is Japanese and MMA is arguably western but heavily influenced by asian arts.

You also didn't mention judo and probably a ton of other less prominent styles, such as a variety of wrestling systems, sanda, ect,

That said, being un- or only semi-viable in the ring is not the same as being ineffective in all situations. Alot of stuff that does not work in the ring will work on a non-marital artist.

neither of those is totally true,western martial arts continued in some form at least to the world war period, and of course if you count various modern systems of sport fighting and military hand to hand combat, they still exist.

On the other side, while the Asians lost a lot of systems, in many ways the more mystical ones were less likely to survive, as actual premodern Asian systems were almost all tied to local or popular cults, as well as specific villages or regions. The ones that survived hare those that either got lucky, were made afterwards, or were willing to abandon some of those traditional ties for the sake of modernity.

In fact most pre-modern Asian and western systems were not purely hand to hand at all, but were tied to weapon use

>Kung Fu is impractical
t. literally believed movies.

Might as well say "Martial Arts" is impractical because that is what Kung Fu is: a general fucking term covering many things. The most basic of Kung Fu is basically Kickboxing.

There's a reason why Europenises called the Taijiquan Rebels "Boxer Rebels." Non-bullshit Kung Fu was basically boxing.

>What caused Western hand to hand combat to be near extinct?
They didn't. Boxing and wrestling are still incredibly popular and much easier to find than an Asian martial art in the West; pretty much every town will have at least a community center or school that teaches at least one. The problem you (and most people, apparently) seem to have is that you don't think of them as martial arts anymore, because pop culture tends to regard them as sports.

>There's a reason why Europenises called the Taijiquan Rebels "Boxer Rebels." Non-bullshit Kung Fu was basically boxing.
No, that's just what Euros generally called striking at the time, so they used the word they had available to them instead of the local one. Firsthand accounts of the Boxer rebellion also make it pretty clear that the Brits who actually saw this "non-bullshit Kung Fu" firsthand had no respect for it, and constantly criticized how ineffective it was.

>Brits had no respect for Kung Fu
Source, please.

How accurate is this?

youtube.com/watch?v=pLuE_olJpPM&t

lol i've trained under the same master two sistems considered the most respected "hard-styles", external. fu jow pai and hung gar.

after eight years training 18 hours a week a newbie entered to train, after his first training we talked about martial arts and movies, and he was brazilian, and a bjj blue belt, so we agreed to do a free sparring and i was submitted with a rear naked choke. after that my chinese master tried to convince me that he would teach me some secrets to "neutralize" his techniques. never get back.

now i'm training at renzo gracie's academy.

>Brits who actually saw this "non-bullshit Kung Fu" firsthand had no respect for it, and constantly criticized how ineffective it was.

They had no respect for it because THE FANATICS THOUGHT THEIR MYSTIC RITUALS WAS PROOF AGAINST BULLETS.

>hung gar
You mean earth bending?

pretty much this. In fact other Chinese had contempt for this. The fact is most of the Boxers were not boxers or martial artists of any note.
What they were are peasants, many drawn into a popular religious practice.

Now martial arts and religion commingle in east Asia, but this was high on the later and low on the former.

There were however many westerners trained in western or Japanese martial arts of various types that were impressed with the Chinese martial artists they met. Now "impressed" does not mean they thought the systems or practitioners were unbeatable, or even the best there was. It means they met people and encountered individual schools they felt were teaching martially sound stuff.

engolo, Capoeira, this, and asian acrobatic martial art are the most useless things in a real combat, most of them are related more to spirituality than pragmatic effectiveness.

Pugilism has never really died. As a curiosity, Savate was a French system which revolved around using a cane and kicks so a wealthy man wouldn't have to dirty his hands roughing up some waif. That's Western as fuck.

Asian martial arts have fun movies and the promise of secret knowledge. An Asian martial arts instructor, by dint of being Asian or spending too much time among Asians, has a mystique. This same mystique, applied to white people, is revealed to be autism. But Chinese don't have mental illness, so...

mma developed out of jeet kune do tho.

What is Veeky Forums opinion on 52 blocks?

French were badass, just watched a savate video

>revolved around using a cane and kicks so a wealthy man wouldn't have to dirty his hands roughing up some waif

sources?

No. Modern MMA born of cross training. Gracies were training boxing already in 70's for vale-tudo bouts. Even before them, Maeda trained Capoeira when arrived in Brazil.

The relationship between Martial Arts and Nationalism makes for an interesting anthropological study actually.

Even more amazing when 19th Century Asians literally started it and supposedly superior European Imperialists started copying them. The Japanese and the Chinese associated Martial Arts with resistance against the westerner and something that spoke of their "local spirit." Even despite the fact that firearms have invalidated most of them in terms of practicality.

Then amazingly spastic romantic Nationalists in Europe saw this and after initially scoffing it off as primitive, started looking for "National Martial Arts" of their own to separate their nations from mainstream European cultural trends.

No, it's a Maoist technique

He is referencing a primary source which was cited by schola gladiatoria and is from a Brit soldier criticizing Chinese sparring /'boxing' in Shandong or something.

Traditional Judo mixed various schools of Jujutsu and also basic striking techniques from Shotokan before Lee.

>Schola Gladiatoria
Nice youtube history you got there.

Sources include some stupid TV doc I saw and my own meager knowledge about class & hygiene in France at the time this was developed. Savate was for gentlemen. A gentleman did not wash his hands, because his hands were never dirty. They were never dirty because they never touched dirty things. To wash his hands would be an admission that he had violated some ethic. That is why the first weapons of savate are the feet and the cane, with the hands as a last resort, even though as far as I ever knew Europeans largely preferred boxing.

This was a problem for surgeons. When a French doctor made the case for regular hand-washing by surgeons, the medical class was so insulted that they ceased to wash their hands altogether. Infant mortality spiked in this time.

>What caused Western hand to hand combat to be near extinct?
The amalgamation of mechanics and chemistry to produce weaponry that can fit in the palm of a hand and punch straight through an assailant with less mastery of technique needed. Yes, I'm talking about guns. The pistol on my hip will give me more of an advantage relatively speaking than a well-trained martial artist.

Although not to say that hand-to-hand combat techniques don't have merit. American boxing provides a good groundwork and discipline for a stand-up striking fight, as well as a nice outlet for physical fitness. Whereas Chinese Tai Chi can be used for health and/or a practical combat system.

Schola is pretty respectable, especially when he is citing a primary source.

That said, I would like to see the quote in question.

>What caused Western hand to hand combat to be near extinct?

I'll take Boxing for $500, Alex

It's a meme.

western hand2hand combat is wrestling and grappling

I thought that Savate was developed by thugs and pirates.

wrestling and grappling are standardization and amalgamations of what was once a wide variety of styles across Europe,

>both of which were a clear break with tradition and its asiatic origin.
>citation needed

Kung-Fu was invented by a white man

Karate was originally a method for africans to project their melanin into concussive force, allowing them to kill lighter folk with a single hit, the asians actually adopted it from them about 300BW (before wh*tey)

What is Sambo
What is Greco-Roman Wrestling
What is Boxing
What is Ringen (grappling)

Bodhidarma didn't created anything.

I get the impression that it was always easier to own a weapon in europe, a lot easier than japan anyway.

It was very easy to own a weapon in Japan for most of its history. Edo period sword laws restricted who could wear swords. Many people owned swords, some even owned guns. And many people fragrantly broke the law in regards to wearing weapons.

Reminder that based Koreans made Taekwon-do which is objectively the most practical and effective of the martial arts.

by "made taekwondo" do you mean they "changed the name of shotokan karate and slightly changed it over the years"?

I would like if you explained why it's the most efficient.

TKD now is much different.

>McDojo trained.

Increased soy consumption

It's absurd to think traditional martial arts don't teach biomechanics that help during combat training.

Are you referring to how in the 2000's, they started teaching muay thai kicks and acting like it has something to do with taekyon?

We figured out that guns and sword made for better weapons than fists.

Western hand to hand combat was rare as fuck nobody has heard of it unless you research it hard.

Meanwhile in Asia, martial arts is literally what military taught in mass. It was taught in monasteries too (as people retire in life and bring their lifeskills to the monastery). The romans/greek sorta had a martial arts in a "lets brawl and practice together" kinda way. But there wasn't really anything coherent that would be passed down and written down generation to generation and improved upon. Meanwhile the Chinese had a coherent Taichi system by 3rd century AD that was popularly taught.

The system of martial arts requires great state powers (which China had) and knowledge.

The Asians kept practicing them as a hobby or artform

>as hobby or artform
Both of them are incorrect.

What happened was martial arts was institutionalized from military to monastic and then towards families(asians have giant family complexes).

I dont know hwere you got your information but its mostly wrong.

While any fighting technique taught to soliders is literally a martial art, What was taught to soliders in asia is only indirectly related to that drill.

Taichi does not date back to the thrid century, and while there wre almost certainly martial arts, to assume they bare some close similarity to modern and early modern systems is a bridge too far.

Finally, most asian martial arts were in fact weapons arts. open handed stuff tends to be the domain of civilians, especially in peaceful times.

The same was true in Europe. Of course they assumed you knew basic grappling, wrestling is part of almost every culture, but the focus was on weapons and pure empty handed stuff was an after thought.