Greetings Anons, i would like you to help me, help our cause; Does anyone have...

Sonderweg?

Yeah!

>german occupied territory
Also known as the land Prussia took from Poland in late 18th century, with Polish majority, and a millenium old history of being a part of the Polish state.
But please provide evidence for 58,000 slaughtered Germans.

wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/wrsynopsis.html

scribd.com/doc/53056883/Hans-Schadewaldt-1940-the-Polish-Atrocitites-Against-the-German-Minority-in-Poland#scribd

Here are some, Prove this wrong, or fuck off Herzel

I dont get it, you have to ask others for proofs to sustent your beliefs. Yet you believe in them blindly

How can you not see how fucking dumb you are

"blindly" (((schlomo))) Said, ignoring documented facts. Oy Vey

How come, its always so hard to "document" the "official story", nothing seem to make sense in the big picture, and even though jews try to silence real research and history, everything that comes to the surface actually make sense and connects the missing links? Its really like there is a lot to hide, isnt it? The truth will one day break free, and plead to what God you want, for the redemption will come

Ah so a Nazi apologist website and a propaganda book by a Nazi.
Also, first article speaks of some "centuries old Polish hatred of Germans", which is laughable idea since Poles and German entities probably had the least conflicts of all neighbors in Europe before Prussians annexed Polish land.
Book you gave as a source alleges 58,000 Germans were killed AFTER the invasion, literally in the opening chapter.

Are you trolling, false-flagging, or you're just clinically retarded?

Nobody is hiding anything. We encouraged you to post evidence and you went on a racist babble thinking noone could see through this

Iwill convert to Nazism on the spot if you post evidence Hitler started the war over polish atrocities if it is more convincing than his speech to his inner circle and generals saying he wants to conquer living space

Also, and I'm presuming you're just retarded, so I assume you don't know history at all, here is something that will blow your mind.
Notice the border before the partitions...it's almost the same as the border of restored Poland and Germany after WW1.
After Germany was defeated in WW1, Poles used the opportunity to restore their independence.
Since you types are ''free thinkers'', ''nationalists'', and ''pro-white'' ''Christians'' who value national independence and sovereignty, in your own words, I wanna see you explain why do Germans have the right to independence and ethnic states, but Poles don't have such right?

>and this "Edward" guy took over
HIGH LEVEL OF DISCOURSE

Dont remember how to spell his name, too lazy to look it up, was in a hurry.

Poles slaughtered so many Germans that Hitler had to do false flag operation featuring fake attack on German radio station by Poles so he would have excuse for 1939 invasion

Furthermore, since this will almost certainly come up, let's kill the ''famous'' quote from Daily Mail, about how Poland wants war and that Hitler can't avoid it, published in Daily Mail on August 6th in 1939...

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_1939#August_6,_1939_(Sunday)

As you can see, August 6th was Sunday.
Daily Mail wasn't published on Sunday in 30s.

In addition to that, Daily Mail is sensationalist yellow press and always was, and they openly supported fascism and Nazism in 30s, so I'm not sure why you idiots think that Daily Mail articles are any proof, even if you managed to get the date right.

I love how you ignore all the counter-arguments I made. So I guess you're indeed just shitposting, or you are even more retarded than I thought, which makes you incapable of conversing with humans who have IQ over 70, or you're on drugs. Whatever the reason, I guess this thread is over.

>Wikipedia
Oy vey, you showed "nazi" sources, so here, let me show you jewish sources telling you are wrong!

Whats next? drawing the 6million card?

I merely used Wikipedia to show you that August 6th was Sunday.

Stormfag claiming that Wikipedia is not reliable source of information
Classic

So i guess then, you marxist-sympathizer, can tell me how come the history is so "true" its illegal to question it?
Here its word against word then, NatSoc saying it wasnt a false flag, communists saying it was, proof has been destoryed and barely "convincing" on either side. Lets roll up our sleves then, and take a look at what side has been most honest, and which have lied the most?

jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm
And btw, you can even get the Daily Mail on sundays in the UK. You dont have a case, you show none proof, you quite wikipedia, how many cents do you even earn pr/post?

Stormfag claiming that August 6 1939 being a Sunday is a Jewish plot
classic
>can tell me how come the history is so "true" its illegal to question it?
Its not illegal anywhere to question the events leading up to WWII you fucking mong

It doesn't even matter whether Wikipedia is a reliable source, I just used it to show that August 6th was on Sunday.
>illegal to question it
Where is it ''illegal to question it''?
Holocaust denial specifically is banned in some countries, but it's perfectly allowed in most of the world. See the map.
In some countries like Poland I believe it's also forbidden to deny German (and communist) crimes.
But in general, nowhere is it illegal to question to overall narrative of WW2.
>proof has been destoryed
Keep in mind this occurred 70 years ago. Many of us have grandparents who were alive back then and remember the war. Despite what you may think, Jews didn't invent mind control rays and brainwash everyone.
>you can even get the Daily Mail on sundays in the UK
Since 1982.

Again, you're cherry picking small faults, that i do not denie might occur, but then prove otherwise, i would also "convert" into a marxist if you could actually prove me that the "official" story actually is real. Its like you would cherry pick details about a housefire, and denie the house burned down because some details doesnt fit, yet the house is burned down and charcoal is all thats left in the smokey remains

Have a good day shilling fucking scum, though.

OH NO NO NO AHAHAHA
imagine going to court like this
>my honor,all my points that is stated is correct and i have plenty of evidences to back me up,its only that you need to dig it up yourselr
>if you disagree with me you are fucking scum,and my point still stands even if theres overwhelming evidence to the contrary because of reasons
Sweetie,you need to pick up some lessons in critical thinking

How are we shills if you are the one who defends literal war criminals who lied for 6 years to their own people? 58000 dead Germans meme was created by Goebbels who is well known for his lies, it started with 5800 but eventually one more 0 was added

Post literally any evidence polacks killed 50k germany imbecile

>you're cherry picking small faults
Completely botching the citation/quote is not a ''small fault''. You people quote a pro-fascist tabloid, and you don't even get the date right. That's hardly a small fault.
>i would also "convert" into a marxist
I'm sure you would, because you're retarded, but I'm not that guy. There's other people here laughing at your idiocy.
>prove me that the "official" story actually is real
And how do you want me to do that?
Given the high standards you established (''everything I don't like is Jewish propaganda''), only way I could ''prove'' anything to you is to invent a time machine and take you back to 30s. But I guess even then you could claim it's some Jewish plot, and it's not a time machine but Jewish VR or something.

In addition to this, you are completely ignoring another argument of mine, that ''holy German land'' Poles sneakily ''stole'' was actually POLISH land, inhabited by POLISH MAJORITY, which was annexed from POLISH STATE in late 18th century.

I mean I could go further and discuss other events which make your narrative fall apart like a house of cards, but you can't even overcome the first obstacle.

(((critical thinking))) is just jewish propaganda to silence natsoc feelings

>natsocs literally doing the same thing kikes are accussed of
The horseshoe is real dammnit

That's the funniest thing here, you really see how projection works. They act exactly how they paint the stereotypical Jew.
Even down to some being offended when you call them Nazis/neo-Nazis.

>Since 1982
And the Stormfag just keeps getting BTFO over and over.

What did you expect would happen, OP, from you coming to a history board spouting debunked 70 year old propaganda you "learned" from some shitty infographic with no source?

Learn critical thinking skills, you mouth breather.

>Germany sued for with Britain
Then why didn't they accept the British and French ultimatum to withdraw from Poland? If they wanted peace, Germany could have had it but they asked for war and got blown into the stone age.

>Poland prosecuting and slaughtering 58.000 germans in german occupied territory
There is no actual truth to this claim. The only "evidence" that the Germans had was Bloody Sunday, in which German militias attacked the Polish military and 340 civilians (86 of them Polish) were killed in the battle. The German military then killed around 700 hostages in retaliation and would go on to kill about 2000 Polish civilians in the city as part of Operation Tannenberg. And all this didn't even occur until AFTER the Germans had already begun to invade Poland.

>Ignores any peaceful negotiation about the Danzig question
Danzig was the capital of the Free City of Danzig, a League of Nations protectorate that was, rather notably, not part of Poland. Poland was in a free-trade zone with Danzig and represented them internationally (but only represented them; Poland was not allowed to bind Danzig to agreements without prior approval). Military, it was under the joint protection (and partial administration) of the League of Nations.

>England declare war on Germany, and ignores every purposal for peace thereafter.
This is false. On September 2nd, France and Britain notified Germany that the invasion of Poland had triggered a mutual defense treaty between the 3 countries. That didn't change Hitler's mind. Something revisionists won't tell you.

On September 3rd, the Nazi government received an ultimatum by the British ambassador demanding a response by eleven o'clock concerning the assurance to withdraw from Polish territory. Even that was ignored. Again, something revisionists will not tell you.

Only as a result of all this was Germany declared war by Britain and France.

>Asks for evidence
>Provides not a single shred of evidence for his own claims

>can tell me how come the history is so "true" its illegal to question it?
First of all, questioning the holocaust is not illegal in any country on the planet, else every school kid asking their teacher something they didn't quite grasp, would be in the slammer. Denying, is in some.

Secondly, if you look at the countries in the world, the amount of them that have these laws is pathetic in number. Coincidentally, these countries are also those who were most affected under the Nazi dictatorship. Maybe the only political agenda here is something called "Never Again"? How about that.

And in these few countries where denying or grossly downplaying the death toll of the holocaust is a punishable offense, in these very same non-islamic countries, it is also a punishable offense to e.g. slander the prophet Muhammad with allegations of bestiality or pedophilia or raise your right hand in a 45° angle in public, or display Nazi symbols for recreational or commercial purposes, or call someone a nigger or post on social media that all refugees should drown in the Mediterranean. People have gone to jail in these countries for all these offenses: It's called generic hate speech laws. You'd only have a point if saying anything and everything were perfectly legal, where true freedom of speech existed except when it came to denying the holocaust, but deniers cannot point to a single country where such laws exist.

And holocaust denial IS hate speech (against Jewish people; some or all in this case doesn't really matter),

Even the most scholarly form of holocaust denial is ultimately saying that hand-wringing, hook-nosed kike merchants have been lying to the goyim for 70 years straight with world historians under their control-censor in order to cash in shekels for Israel.

Stormfags love to gloss over Danzig, they claim it was "stolen" from Germany, and by omission pretend it was a Polish proxy or part of Poland, but they always neglect to mention that the Free City of Danzig was free to elect its own authorities and was in fact ruled by the local Nazis between 1933 until its annexation in 1939, who repressed the local opposition in the city-state.

The whole "Danzig held hostage by the evil Poles" narrative collapses when you realize the Nazis held power there the whole time.

It's illegal in most of the country of Europe to deny the holocaust.

Holy shit, don't tell me you're so thick you think Edvard Beneš was a Pole.

I never claimed otherwise.

>OP still demands that other people give HIM evidence despite not providing any proof for his ridiculous claim that the evil (((Poles))) massacred 58,000,000 innocent Germans in Danzig

I think he just gave up and left the thread.

>England didn't help poland, neither cared when Soviet Union invaded without reason.
Ignoring of course that Operation Pike was being planned before the battle of France caused all available resources to be redeployed.

The level of sheer delusion from your posts is astounding
I haven't even seen this amount of stupidity in the Holocaust threads on /pol/

Actually answered before reading the rest of your post.
3 on this pics are true: stalin killed more, honorable rommel and dresden war crime

Where can I find the bodies of these 58 gorillion Germans?

>Stalin killed more
Not if we count people who died as a result of German aggression. And let's not forget that the Nazis killed at least 12 million people in 3-4 years.

Stalin killed more people no matter the mental gymnastics you employ to justify it.

Wartime deaths arent even taken into account.

Please prove it. Fun fact: there is ZERO evidence that 12 million people died in Gulags.

Funny you sound like op

The Danzig massacre never happened, but it should have.

Not him, but I don't like deniers desu.
Take your pick.

Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed during the 1930s.
Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million "unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago,
Intro to Perennial Classics Edition by Edward Ericson: Solzhenitsyn publicized an estimate of 60 million. Aleksandr Yakovlev estimates perhaps 35 million.
Page 178: citing Kurganov, 66 million lives lost between 1917 and 1959
Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
1939-45: 18,157,000
1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo. famine
William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and Eastern Europe: 50M+
Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
Cited by Wallechinsky:
Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000 "surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
Cited in Nove:
Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8 million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the 1926 and 1937 censuses.
Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989): 642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.

Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state prisoners shot, 1931-53.
Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at most 8 million.
In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50% higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in 1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20 million was the likeliest death toll.
Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine, executions, etc., citing Medvedev
Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and after WW2.
Daniel Chirot:
"Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
"Highest": 40M
Citing:
Conquest: 20M
Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
Medvedev: 40M
Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
[Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse, Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
Kulaks: 7M
Gulag: 12M
Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.

AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of Stalin, the median is 30 million.

Underrated

Dude you really need to stop posting that pasta, and specifically using Solzhenitsyn makes you look like a doofus. Gulag Archipelago is BASED on reality, but it's a work of fiction.
Also, you need to stop avatarfagging, and you need to specify that you're using outdated research for the most part and highest estimates. Since Soviet archives were opened no serious expert claims 60 or 40 million were killed by Stalin. That's a ridiculous number that's impossible to frame into general demographic trends of pre-Stalin and post-Stalin era.
Stalin was murderer and caused the death of millions. No need to comically exaggerate the number of his victims. Even if he killed 1 million it's a heinous crime.

No. I believe in facts, not in imagination. Even 20 million "killed" by Stalin is an exaggeration. And that's including famines, collectivization and purges.
>Historian and archival researcher Stephen G. Wheatcroft of the University of Melbourne claims Stalin can be charged with the "purposive deaths" of "something in the order of a million people", which includes 791,570 executions from 1921 to 1945, purposive excess deaths in the gulag and 208,430 deaths in exile from 1930 to 1945; if those who perished from criminal negligence and irresponsibility are included, the number increases to roughly 3 million deaths (this total excludes famine deaths, which Wheatcroft and historian R. W. Davies estimate to be around 5.5 to 6.5 million).
This is based on Soviet archives.

Now what about the other side of this discussion?
>Golfo Alexopoulos, history professor at the University of South Florida, believes that at least 6 million people died as a result of their detention in the gulags[24] and Russian writer Vadim Erlikman stated that 5 million were killed in gulags.[19] John G. Heidenrich, citing materials pre-1991, sets the number of 12 million
And what is their source? Their own imagination?

And "median" doesn't mean shit.
Stalin's actions caused the death of some 10-15 million people, including famine in early 30s.
Don't forget that most of people killed by Stalin were killed "legally". They recorded most of it.

>Dude you really need to stop posting that pasta
It's not a pasta, it's a list of academic sources.

>Gulag Archipelago is BASED on reality, but it's a work of fiction
It's based on eyewitness testimony and primary research material, as well as the Solzhenitsyn's own experiences as a prisoner in a gulag labor camp. The figures cited are not supposed to be fictional.

>and you need to specify that you're using outdated research for the most part
Most of those estimates are recent. The year of each text is right next to its name so you can decide for yourself. Only four of them are above 40 million, feel free to discard them if you wish. I am merely providing a list of sources, we can discuss at lenght which ones are more valid.

>Since Soviet archives were opened no serious expert claims 60 or 40 million were killed by Stalin.
Except for Norman Davies and Roy Medvedev. I can't speak for Davies as I haven't read his works but Medvedev's research is pretty solid.

>Stalin was murderer and caused the death of millions. No need to comically exaggerate the number of his victims. Even if he killed 1 million it's a heinous crime.
Agreed. Which is why I don't see why a list of sources proving he did upsets you.
The point is to show that even the most revisionist historians concede he killed millions. The whole gamut of views is represented in those sources.

Also what's wrong with posting pretty girls?

Just to add to your post, even in Cambodia, where they breed like rabbits, Khmer Rouge murders caused a drop in population. Later it grew due to baby boom, after they lost power.
If we take 30 or 40 million estimate, that's like a third or fourth of USSR population before 1940.
Now include deaths in WW1, deaths during Civil War and famine, and deaths during WW2, and you get ridiculous numbers, apparently USSR lost like a 100 million people in the span of 25 or so years, but population still grew, economy grew, and they were second or third global economy in 50s and 60s.
Even without detailed analysis it's obvious these high estimates are total rubbish.

Medvedev talked about 40 million VICTIMS, not dead. If you read his work you'd know that.
He claims 20 million died. Which is close to 10-15 million commonly accepted now.

And I'm upset because you keep using bullshit sources, some of which are literally propaganda or sensationalist bullshit, and then you reach a "median" as if that matters when 70% of your cited works were bullshit and written before quality data was available.

1926 - 147,027,915
1937 -
>Official statistics based on the registered birth and death rates implied that the 1937 census should show a population of 170-172 million.
>Actual number - 162,039,470 (never published)
But dead people don't breed so probably less than 10 million people died.

And the next census was conducted in 1959 ( 208,826,650). I have no idea how anyone can estimate how many killed Stalin and not WW2 based on this (because they consider Soviet documents unreliable).

That name is pure cringe, even as far as namefags go.

Veeky Forums the last bastion of ppls with brians. I love you guyse.

>58.000
Fifty-eight isn't that many G*rmans user