Is it worth doing squats/deadlifts?

Are they worth doing? Can I lose height doing these?

Other urls found in this thread:

drjohnrusin.com/the-squat-vs-the-hip-hinge/
exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
exrx.net/Lists/ExList/WaistWt.html#Erector
t-nation.com/training/inside-the-muscles-best-ab-exercises
t-nation.com/training/erector-set
t-nation.com/training/get-it-right-the-deadlift
pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c0e6/e4d72c7c3148139ce1ab18e0017df0c2156a.pdf
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19002072
theironsamurai.com/are-back-squats-really-necessary-the-legs-hips-and-ass-issue/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

They aren't actually useful for anything... at all...
Someone post that picture about the damaged joints.

Yes.

No.

Maybe.

That is bullshit.
You can take a picture of random people with no pain, sedentary and had no physical jobs with lots of fucked up shit in their knees and back.
Squats are usefull, Deadlifts are less usefull, but are still good.

I don't know.

I don't know

If you want an excuse not to work hard, then you've come to the right place.

Depending on your goals, yes they're worth doing. Everyone will benefit from some form or program of squats. No you will not lose height.

Samefag

Let the dialogue begin.

people on Veeky Forums aren't short because of lifting
they started lifting because they're short

I have erection problems now. My penis lost an inch in girth and length in it's erect state and is about the same size flaccid. Think smallish old man dick on an otherwise healthy 22 year old, unable to sustain a proper erection for longer than a minute.
My doctor told me that rubbing hundreds of pounds against your dick every deadlift rep destroys the connective tissues insure it. The damage is done, and there's no real cure. Even viagra cannot bring it back to it's former size.
>feels bad man

here we go again

Heavy squats and deadlifts are only worth doing if your goal includes beyond a 40kg squat and 60kg deadlift

Nobody is forced to do heavy squats or deadlifts, but by all means - please do bodyweight squats and only-bar deadlifts

You don't need to have treetrunk legs if you don't want to, but by please tell me you're able to execute basic motor skills that can at least hold your own body.

Also, please check your mobility and flexibility before executing them. It should be a fucking rule in the gym that the owner must see you execute a full squat in order to gain access to a cage.

If you're unwilling and unable, I cannot express anything but regret

What are they useful for? Bragging rights?

>What are they useful for?
You must live a sedentary life in the basement.

Have you never bore weight on your back? Lifted something heavy from the ground? Stabilized a heavy weight?

You know why you are afraid of squats and deadlifts? Because they're hard, and you're a scared little bitch.

For anything that requires strength.
You can use that train of thought, and simplification to the whole training thing. Why lift weights at all? for Bragging rights?

And women above the age of 20 will notice your chicken legs.

>deadlifts are less useful than squats
>you put something on your back and squat down with more often than you pick something up off the floor

stop posting idiot

Do you want to be strong? If yes, then they are two of the most important exercises.

It doesnt build strength as well as squats.
Squats can be done at a higher frequency
The muscles used in the deadlift are easily covered by many other common lifts. More so than squats.

I like the deadlift more than squats, but that doesnt change the fact that squats are more usefull.

Not really, do rear elevated split squats, lunges, stiff legged deadlifts, and trap bar deadliest instead.

wrong on every count other than frequency for conventional vs. squatting

deadlift and deadlift variations build and demonstrate strength like nothing else

"If you were to put me on a deserted island and allowed me to do one exercise, I would pick the deadlift. Also, since I suck at the deadlift no one would see how bad I was at it. No other lift works more muscles than the deadlift." - Jim Wendler

horrible bait

They're worth doing because they're fun, and picking up more than you did a few months ago gives you a sense of achievement that isn't measured against the performance of anyone else

>picking up objects of a mass approximately equal to my deadlift working set is something I do multiple times each day

lmao0.25pl8 detected

On a more serious note, you kind of disproved your own point there because the everyday action of picking up objects from the floor (or getting low to the ground in general) should be achieved through squatting. It's just an unfortunate quirk of modern Western society that most people lose the mobility required to squat comfortably in early childhood.

1. deadlift builds strength just as well as squats: more hamstrings and erectors, plus forearms, traps, lats used for stability, in addition to training one of the most basic human movement patterns (and the one you will use the most in real life - picking something up)
2. you can easily deadlift twice or more weekly if you understand how to program, and if you include variations it is even easier to do so
3. every muscle used in a squat is also used in a deadlift, with the primary difference being less knee extension occuring for a deadlift (especially conventional) and notably less (none) upper body pulling musculature involved in the squat

>"If you were to put me on a deserted island and allowed me to do one exercise
well, were not talking about only doing one exercise.
>wrong on every count other than frequency for conventional vs. squatting
The deadlift DO work more muscles at once. but if you squat then you will automatically cover the muscles used in the deadlift with rows and chins. which is already a part of every good program

If you want to replace the squat with a deadlift then you will have to do several variations. as it doesnt use the stretch reflex, and the ROM for the legs are very small.
Pluss you will limit your deadlift progress without a squatting movement, but you wont limit your squats by much, if you remove the deadlift.

picking up objects is a hip hinge motion, not a squat, and it is a hip hinge motion in every third world nation and always has been throughout human history

try again little guy

ah yes, I forgot that there is no hip extension involved in a squat

this tbqh, deadlifts are shite for hypertrophy due to CNS impact. Just focus on other compounds, row/weighted chins/squats cover everything nicely enough. Heavy deadlifts are mental masturbation which is okay for powerlifters but as a casual you won't need them

>every third world nation
Every third world nation has healthier knees than first world chair sitters because the 3rd worlders know how to squat.

your deadlift will go up just by training squats, if you want an actual mass builder do squats for high volume and train deadlifts for the sake of improving technique and peaking.

>squat isn't a hip hinge motion
Post pics because your anatomy is unknown to fucking science m8yboi.

not really user

if you replace squats with deadlifts, you would automatically be able to do more deadlift volume as a result and get more of a training effect for all the things deadlift hits

you would be missing knee extension work in particular compared to a routine with squats, but you could get knee extension work with variations of deadlift that have a greater degree of knee flexion (sumo, trap bar), leg press, hip belt squats, etc.

if you got rid of deadlifts in lieu of squats, you would need more hamstring work, more erector work, and trap and forearm work would need to increase, so at a minimum you would need GHRs, hypers, and then maybe additional rows, static holds, or rack pulls to get some of that upper body training effect

also not squatting will most likely not limit your deadlift progress - you will be able to do more volume on deadlifts if you are not spending some portion of your MRV on squats, and you get better at the thing you do more

Yes, they're worthy.
No, you won't become shorter.
Now, a thread died because of your asinine question. Feel sorry about it.

drjohnrusin.com/the-squat-vs-the-hip-hinge/

there is obviously overlap between the two, but these are actual defined movement patterns

ok, so? you're trying to go against common knowledge in the powerlifting community, that is, you don't even need to deadlift to attain a stronger deadlift, you just need to squat a lot.

>if you replace squats with deadlifts, you would automatically be able to do more deadlift volume
I know you will be able to do more deadlift volume, but you will never get to the frequency and volume which you can do with squats.

> you could get knee extension work with variations of deadlift that have a greater degree of knee flexion (sumo, trap bar), leg press, hip belt squats, etc.
belt squats are still squats, and you just proved my point. You will need a lot of extra exercise to cover what the deadlift lacks for legs.

>f you got rid of deadlifts in lieu of squats, you would need more hamstring work, more erector work, and trap and forearm work
You may not need extra hamstring work. And the other muscles you listed are covered by rows and chins. Which i already said are a part of every good program. No extra exercises needed.

(btw anyone who tried smolov for squats will confirm this)

Yeah its worth it. Carrying shit and doing manual labour is a lot easier now thanks to squats and deads. They really make carrying shit a whole lot easier. It really protects the back.

If you lift you should at least complete your linear progression on them. If you lift a lot of weight but you don't do squat and deads you are still kind of weak where it really matters if you are gonna do anything physical.

>And the other muscles you listed are covered by rows and chins
not him
ows and chins don't train the erector spinae (the biggest and most important muscle group ever). barbell rows only use erector as a stabilizer. chin ups don't use it all.

can you repeat the question?

what if you aren't a manual labourer

What if you aren't a man?

Just tuck your dick and start pissing sitting down, because you're trying to be a woman.

Please explain how bent over rows with a barbell doesn't train the erectors.

it's written right there. barbell bent over rows use erector as a stabilizer only. you don't lift the weight with your erector at all.
>exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
>exrx.net/Lists/ExList/WaistWt.html#Erector

You dont deadlift with your erectors neither. They are used in the exact same fashion in both lifts, Isometrically. The only difference is the intensity, as you use more weight with deadlifts. But rows got more time under tension.

>if you aren't a manual labourer, you aren't a man
k

>And women above the age of 20 will notice your chicken legs.

Hmm nah I'm 186 cm and squat 130kg. Nothing would noticeably change in my legs if I squatted 200kgs. Still a lanklet

>You dont deadlift with your erectors neither.
You're doing them wrong.
>The only difference is intensity.
No. Stabilizers are not synergists targeted with a lower intensity.

can you repeat the question?

>"If you were to put me on a deserted island and allowed me to do one exercise, I would pick the deadlift. Also, since I suck at the deadlift no one would see how bad I was at it. No other lift works more muscles than the deadlift." - Jim Wendler

That's a terrible meme since for normal regular everyday Joes their grip would start failing at 3 plates. You would never make it to 5 plates without straps, and you don't have straps on deserted islands

Do you own a home?

You'll need to use your body at some point, unless you're some office cuck who lives in an apartment.

Your spine doest change shaoe during the deadlift nor with rows. If it doesn then you will injure yourself. The spine stays neutral. The backangles changes, but the muscle doesnt contract in a dynamic fashion, but isometrically. It doesnt elongate nor shorten. You deadlift with your hips and legs. Those are the muscle which are used dynamically. Not the erectors.
This is basic anatomy.

>do you own a home
>seriously asking this from someone who is below 30

Lots of people below 30 own a home. You don't still live in your mom's basement, do you?

You have basic anatomy wrong. Deadlift targets mainly the erectors spinae . Th spine isn't supposed to flex and "change shape" during the lift. This doesn't mean that the erector spinae isn't working in the deadlift; actually, it's pretty the opposite. It WILL also "elongate" and "shorten".
Please don't even try to argue that the deadlift doesn't target the erector spinae or that the barbell bent over rows engage the erector spinae for anything but stabilizing the work of the surrounding muscle groups, which are actually used and engaged for the lift. This IS basic anatomy and basic lifting knowledge, and it's not debatable at all.
The fact that hamstrings and gluteus are used too doesn't change anything. Any further reply challenging this FACTS will be ignored. Please educate yourself.

whatever make you feel a man, goy
have fun lifting heavy weights around your home to prove yourself you're a man, making jokes about people who use their brain to make monies.

% lots of people under 30 do not own a home. Sure there are lots of home owners in 300 million people. Maybe 0.2% of them post on Veeky Forums

I think you should take up anatomy and biophysics if you think stabilizing and contracting isometrically means 2 different things, and if you believe BB rows doesnt train the lower back, even though its the same position. The only difference is weight/intensity.

Lads I've been going to the gym for 2 years now and I've not hit legs once, should I do something about that?

>the lower back
you don't even know what the erector spinae is.
>contracting isometrically
that's not what the erector does in a deadlift.
>only difference is weight/intensity
you've shitposted enough, go educate yourself.
Your ignorance hurts.

If you actually think squats and deadlifts make you shorter after your growth plates are fused then you deserve to be put down

Who doesn't want big legs and a strong thick core? Feminine beta faggots that's who

>ok, so? you're trying to go against common knowledge in the powerlifting community, that is, you don't even need to deadlift to attain a stronger deadlift, you just need to squat a lot.
Bullshit. This has worked for a few roiders then every lifter who sucks at deadlifts jumps on the wagon. Every good deadlifter trains the deadlift regularly.

>That's a terrible meme since for normal regular everyday Joes their grip would start failing at 3 plates. You would never make it to 5 plates without straps, and you don't have straps on deserted islands
Use mixed grip.

>should I do something about that
Yeah you should probably do legs

t-nation.com/training/inside-the-muscles-best-ab-exercises
EMG data that clearly demonstrates the inefficacy of training the erector spinae with the deadlift, as well as the other core muscles

Just go home, you stupid piece of shit. The deadlift is for strength development and nothing else. Heavy rows beat the deadlift every time for upper body development (forearms, back and traps), and squatting beats the deadlift every time for lower body development.

>erector spinae with the deadlift, as well as the other core muscles
not even him, but you truly are an idiot. the erector spinae is not just the lumbar erectors. just neck yourself my man
>t-nation.com/training/erector-set
>t-nation.com/training/get-it-right-the-deadlift
since you love t-nation, pathetic asshole.

stop watching tranny porn and jacking off. 3 months and youll be rock hard whenever you need to be my man.

i bet he's listening to avril lavigne

Whoa there buddy. How often do you carry something heavier than a 50lb bag of dog food, or 75lbs of couch? I'm guessing very infrequently.

they're good to me. they make me faster on short climbs and sprints.

There should be no spinal compression when squatting either high bar or low bar.

Having a vertical back is dumb crossfit shit

Raise test

>Deadlift targets mainly the erectors spinae
you're stupidly wrong, they are required to isometrically contract to maintain back postition but the primary function of the deadlift is hip extension, performed by your glutes and hamstrings. hamstring and glutes aren't used 'as well' they are the prime movers. no one is debating the importance of the erectors and enitre back musculature in the deadlift, but you are fucking wrong and eveyone in this thread that knows what they're talking about is cringing at you

He's just parroting the dumb t-nation article that makes the same claim.

Yeah it's not like squats are the single most important strength exercise for athleticism and used by pretty much every single athlete ever in pretty much every single sport ever or anything

yes. do your squats and deadlifts and make sure you use proper form. fucking morons on this board telling you to not squat or deadlift and instead do crunches are not your friends and are actually your mom in disguise trying to get you to do her workout so she can feel better about herself when you inevitably make no progress.

why do you think it's so common for people to throw out their back shoveling snow or picking something up?

Friendly reminder that if you do back squats and deads, you're a fucking idiot, or ego lifter, or both.

Front Squats + RDLs are the way to go, not only for aesthetics and strength, but for long term health and sustainability.

going to need sources on that buddy.

>Front Squats + RDLs are the way to go
back up your claim with some facts dicklicker

If worried about losing height hang upside down with gravity boots after you squat and dead heavy. If can't afford that or no place to hang just hang on a bar to stretch the spine or sit on a lat pulldown machine with heavy weight and have it pull up on your spine.

Manlet here.

pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c0e6/e4d72c7c3148139ce1ab18e0017df0c2156a.pdf

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19002072

theironsamurai.com/are-back-squats-really-necessary-the-legs-hips-and-ass-issue/

You will lose an appearance of height, because your legs will be thick.

fuck all them words and faggy-science shit. i just want that jooicy booty so sluts can sexually harass me at work

You've formed a very strong opinion based on one study and a blog.

>Obesity can contribute to osteoarthritis through continual increased pressure on the knee joint. Similarly, chronic excessive loading on the knee joint, through heavy weightbearing exercise, could likely have the same result. Thus, by decreasing the compressive force encountered while performing squats, the risk of osteoarthritis and the pain associated with this degenerative disease may be reduced.

This is what we call (lots of) speculation.

>More specifically, the back squat resulted in higher average maximum compressive forces
on the knee (11.0 +/- 2.3 Nkg21) than the front squat (9.3 +/- 1.5 Nkg21).

>(the average 1RM for the back squat was 88.3 kg [ranging from 52.3 to 125 kg], compared with 69.2 kg [ranging from 45.5 to 102.3 kg] for the front squat)

So about 18% more compressive force on the knee when comparing the back squat to the front squat, with about 27% more weight moved in the average back squat.

>Shear forces at the knee were small in magnitude, posteriorly directed, and did not vary between the squat variations.

In conclusion, no, you're not a "fucking idiot, or ego lifter, or both" if you back squat and deadlift.

Currently doing PPLPPLx and will soon have to go 3 months without access to a squat rack. Im thinking of just upping deadlifts and not doing barbell squats (might do some meme squats like goblets etc as warmup). Is there anything wrong with doing 3x8 deadlifts twice a week? Or should I drop it to 3x5. Am focused more on hypertrophy than powerlifting. Also, I already do stiff leg deadlifts, can I still do them even if I'm doing conventional deadlifts on the same day?

idiot samefagging.