Post 1 (O N E) thing bad about the Starting Strength routine

>rear delts
>lats
>biceps

there

>Disprove this
Prove it

I'm not that guy, but my joints hurt even from doing nothing and being dyel. I fear that I won't be able to do shit when I get a gym membership

Tendonitis from me being retarded and using shitty form. I'm not giving up on squats, I'm healing my knees and will slowly get back into 3 times a week.

I needed that user... I'll do squats tonight.

>pullups/chinups and row don't work lats
>confusing posterior chain for "legs"
>implying beginners need more than bench and OHP for their chests, delts, and triceps
>implying the volume isn't in an ideal middle range for beginners, not too low, not too high

SS has problems but you don't know em.

Those are all adequately addressed for newbies in the program.
Row will hit rear delts, lats, and biceps.
The recommended pullups will as well.

It's like you guys think SS is literally just squats. and milk.

The routine

>Cardio is good for your heart
So is strength training brah.
roguehealthandfitness.com/big-misconception-about-weight-lifting/

>fatties need to lose weight
Fatties lose weight by diet. Training alone won't ever make up for a 5000 calorie diet.

>With every Americans high sugar diet, cardio is necessary
No, it's necessary to eliminate the high sugar diet

>cardio is the only exercise in the world to them
That's the problem, ain't it?

>rear delts
Overhead press

>lats and biceps
Chin ups

roguehealthandfitness.com/big-misconception-about-weight-lifting/

The point of progressive overload is that with proper form, the muscles that control the knee strengthen alongside the rest of the body.

The issue the majority of people have with their knees are weak muscles. Not doing squats won't ever fix the problem.
If you do have an actual knee injury and need your meniscus repaired, have the surgery and you'll be free to squat in a few weeks to a few months

Oh yeah, and if you seriously have problems squatting
youtube.com/watch?v=7FonRc8ANxY

your joints don't hurt in spite of you doing nothing, they hurt BECAUSE you do nothing. Being more active and engaging in resistance training is good for your joints

No horizontal pull. Chinups are good, but they dont do enough for improving scapular retraction strength
Additionally, if shoulders aren't the point of weakness in the bench press, it doesn't make sense to train OHP at the same frequency as bench press.

maybe the focus isn't on improving your bench at the expense of another exercise then?

its not a powerlifting program. Every powerlifter I've ever seen is a fucking deltlet

...

>Cardio should only be used in athletes whose sport involves cardiovascular endurance
there are people on this board right now, saying this unironically

What muscle or groups of muscle isn't being trained under Starting Strength?

Also similar to . The purpose of Overhead Press isn't to supplment the bench press. The purpose of overhead press is to get a stronger vertical push.

>a beginner looks dyel
Even under the best bodybuilding program in the world, that individual would not have looked better within the 6 months he's been training. Muscle growth is a slow process and it can take beginners 2 years to get great results.

roguehealthandfitness.com/big-misconception-about-weight-lifting/
Disprove this

Come one user, we hate the normies in the first place and you want to help them?

It turns people into dumpy bottom heavy retards because the legs are the easiest thing to build in a natty and has you squat 3x a week.

>strength training increases VO2 max
This is a misleading hyperbole. Someone who never squats and runs is way closer to someone who squats 3 pl8 and never runs compared to someone who never squats and runs.
>You bench press upwards of 2 times in a week.
This is a straight up lie. You bench press 1 or 2 times for an average of exactly 1.5

>You bench press upwards of 2 times in a week.

You mean at most twice a week, and that's every other week cycled with once a week.

>>rear delts
>Overhead press
"No."

It'll stop normies from ruining this board as far as I'm concerned.

Legs are half your body. Sure you train them 3 times a week, but if you haven't noticed you train your upper half 3 times a week too.

roguehealthandfitness.com/big-misconception-about-weight-lifting
disprove this

>This is a straight up lie. You bench press 1 or 2 times for an average of exactly 1.5
UPWARDS of 2 times a week

Normies want fitness to be easy and fast. that's why all these 14 minute cardio and FBW bow flex machines exist. They won't listen so don't tell them

Try the bill starr recovery protocol.

It has you squatting very light every day for high volume, increasing a little each day.

The reasoning behind it is that working an injury helps it heal better than leaving it alone, as long as you start slow and eat well while doing it.

Apparently it's too difficult for people to understand and follow. Then they run their misunderstanding for way too long.

That is a fault of people too lazy to read the books. There's nothing wrong with doing the Starting Strength program as entailed in the two books

>but if you haven't noticed you train your upper half 3 times a week too.

No, you either bench or OHP 3x a week. That's a quarter of the upper body each session. Then you chin/pullup every other session, which is another quarter of the upper body. So you're at most training half the upper body every session, so there's a 0.5:1 ratio for upper:lower.

Upper body needs at the very least a horizontal and vertical push and pull.

>UPWARDS of 2 times a week
That implies 2 or 3 times, not 1.5, stop insisting. You are clearly bad at English. Just stop.
>Disprove this
From your own article,
"RT can be expected to improve concurrently both muscular (muscle hypertrophy and functional ability) and cardiovascular (VO2max) fitnesses within a single mode of resistance training when young and old persons have initially low fitness levels."
Literally what I said. Yes, you are better than someone completely untrained, but that's it. Now stop spamming that blog everywhere, but keep using lifting as a method to increase your cardio. The more fatties there are the less competition for me.

>UPWARDS

Upwards: toward a higher place, point, or level.

.Focuses on strength and that's not what everybody wants.

>That is a fault of people too lazy to read the books.
No, it's a fault of Rip's laziness and poor writing skills. Yes, he does say to chin and curl, but when you emphasize YNTDP in all caps, people are going to err on the "safe" side of ambiguity, which is following the strictest version of the program.
Let me put it this way.
Name one (1) thing that is worse in Phrak's GSLP than in SS.

Routine is fine. They're wrong to dismiss hypertrophy training for non-novices. Muscles move weight, bigger muscles move more weight. Thus the whole more than fahve reps is sacrilege/cardio thing that they spout should probably stop.

They also take an overly simplistic view of muscle stimulus: You're lifting more weight therefore more stimulus vs moment is greater therefore more stimulus (see: lowbar squats build more muscle than highbar)

>therefore more stimulus vs moment is greater therefore more stimulus
Nani?

>toward a value of 2, meaning a max of 2

>Literally what I said
No, you said
>Someone who never squats and runs is way closer to someone who squats 3 pl8 and never runs compared to someone who never squats and runs
Running doesn't entail becoming stronger. Running has cardiovasuclar benefits, but you're not able to increase your bench press from running a mile.
Strength training on the other hand increases both VO2 max and strength.

>Name one (1) thing that is worse in Phrak's GSLP than in SS.

>amrap
The last rep of the last set should be the most difficult to achieve such that it should be impossible to complete one more rep after that.
AMRAP makes it an assumption of individuals that the last rep of the last set should be easy enough to preform at least 2 more
If you are able to, then the weight you chose is not enough

>If you fail to perform at least 15 reps combined across all sets, deload that lift by 10%.
Following the Starting Strength program correctly, you should need to deload at all

>no powercleans
The reason power cleans should exist in a beginner program is that power cleans is the exercise that we use to make sure power is linearly increasing as our strength is increasing

Otherwise it's just Starting Strength with alternating squats/deads and some alternating horizontal/vertical instead of powercleans

>bigger muscles move more weight
Not necessarily. Bigger muscles can be as a result of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, or myofibrillar hypertrophy. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is when the "sack" that contains the muscle fibers increases in size. While sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is ultimately an outcome in strength training, preforming exercises solely to increase sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is not a good outcome for strength training. But that's not to say that some sarcoplasmic hypertrophy isn't necessary (such as in the Smolov mesocycle)

I'm a bit drunk so pardon my lack of clarity.

Your muscles don't know how much weight is on the bar only how hard they have to pull on your joints.

Rip will consistently argue that more weight on the bar is always a greater stimulus to the muscle as a justification for low bar squats. In actual fact it's not so simple because hip and knee torques are fairly similar for high vs low bar squats while thoracic erectors work harder in the high bar (thus you lift less weight high bar vs low bar). Rip claims that there is greater hip (hamstring/glute) activation in the low bar squat and while this isn't technically wrong the difference is pretty negligible compared to the difference in upper back demands.

In other words low bar squats let you move more weight in the short term (which is fine and good for novices) but in fact build less long term strength when compared to high bar squats because they shift demand form a common weak point to a common strength (the upper back vs the hips).

In the short term this is perfectly fine but if you're in it for the long haul a low bar squat is best reserved for competition where no points are awarded for doing it the hard way.

>Not necessarily. Bigger muscles can be as a result of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, or myofibrillar hypertrophy. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is when the "sack" that contains the muscle fibers increases in size. While sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is ultimately an outcome in strength training, preforming exercises solely to increase sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is not a good outcome for strength training. But that's not to say that some sarcoplasmic hypertrophy isn't necessary (such as in the Smolov mesocycle)

Sure. I''m not advocating going full bodybuilder for strength athletes but sets of 8-10 have their place and the SS community's total dismissal isn't called for.

It's a fine program if you want to be a fatstrong "competitive" weightlifter.

If you want to be anything else it's not really the best program.

Well, with that, one can argue about their necessary place in training. 8-10 reps in a program in necessary for advanced lifters and rippletoe doesn't even deny that.

Both SS and the Texas Method aren't meant for advanced powerlifters

Thanks senpai. The most I'll do is 100lb tonight.

>sweetie
Are you 500lbs?

You're meant to spend three to four months doing it consistently, nailing your form and getting your lifts up, and then move onto something with more volume.

But people fuck around on it, skipping lifts, days, and form, and spend way way too long on it.

There's nothing wrong with it, people just don't seem to understand it's called STARTING Strength for a reason.

You are pedantic, uneducated, and there's a chance you're fat as well.
Squatting alone will take your mile time from 12 (untrained) to 7 minutes at best, if you're skinny. This is not a good mile time.
I never implied that running increases strength. I said that strength only increases cardio at the novice level and very ineffectively at that.
Also, being in the topic, you're wrong even about that. A 100m sprinter with no weight training experience whatsoever will have a decisively higher squat than an untrained individual of the same age, height and weight.
>The last rep of the last set should be the most difficult to achieve such that it should be impossible to complete one more rep after that.
>AMRAP makes it an assumption of individuals that the last rep of the last set should be easy enough to preform at least 2 more
It's the exact opposite, you are completely stupid, please, PLEASE stop posting.
SS is the one who makes the assumption that the 5th rep will be the final. Why not bust another two if you can take it?
GSLP makes no assumption. You got the 5 reps, go home. You got more, good for you
>The weight you chose
Loaded statement. You have no choice. GSLP has LITERALLY the same weight progression scheme as SS
>Following the Starting Strength program correctly, you should need to deload at all
This is how we know that you at least either don't lift and just shitpost, or you do lift but shitpost to pass the time anyway. Either way, this is not a serious post.
>The reason power cleans should exist in a beginner program is that power cleans is the exercise that we use to make sure power is linearly increasing as our strength is increasing
I can make the same argument for sprints (decrease time) or prowler push (increase load and distance, decrease time), which are also WAY safer to perform.
>alternating horizontal/vertical instead of powercleans
You don't understand how either SS or GSLP work. GSLP has more frequent deadlifts instead of power cleans.

Too much weight increase on the bar in too short a time. Your ligaments and joints (which take longer to grow stronger) can't keep up with the muscle growth, thus leading to various weakpoints in the body and potentially a myriad of injuries, in particular to the knees and inner shoulder.
Rips recommendation to increase weight as often as you can, not taking into account conditioning and ligamental/joint strength, may lead to potential injury as noted above.
I won't note Rip's diet recommendations, because he is obviously not a dietitian. If he were, I would have serious concerns.
Stronglifts with weights increased once every week is better IMO; Bill Starr's SSS is even better again.

Yeah for real no way rear delts getting any work from OHP, just watch Nipples shoulder science video

>Stronglifts with weights increased once every week
SL has SS's progression scheme

Doing cardio decreased my rest times between sets in just 2 weeks. Light steady state cardio mind you.

I've never not had hamstring DOMS after volume low bar squats. You also forget that low bar squats are way harder on your lower back, plus I don't understand why high bar squats would be harder on the upper back than low bar squats.

Powerlifters are only "fat" if they choose to be in a higher weight class than their body can support.
Sure, anyone in a 120kg+ weight class would look fat, but any powerlifter in a smaller weight class (like pic related 83kg), isn't going to be fat.

But, for the purposes of training your body and gaining muscle, the most amount of muscle you can get is in a calorie surplus. That means for optimal training you have to be getting a small amount of fat as well as a small amount of muscle.

>This is not a good mile time.
This is why I said "Depending on what you mean by good"
The majority of individuals will never need to run faster than 7 minutes in a mile. The majority of individuals DO need to increase their strength because strength is the best thing to increase general quality of life

>A 100m sprinter with no weight training experience whatsoever will have a decisively higher squat than an untrained individual of the same age, height and weight.
Proofs
Where is proofs?
That's right, you have absolutely zero evidence. Having good cardiovascular endurance has ZERO benefit in squatting.

>SS is the one who makes the assumption that the 5th rep will be the final. Why not bust another two if you can take it?
Because the weight you choose to do 3x5 is too small if you could have done an extra 2 reps.

>Loaded statement. You have no choice. GSLP has LITERALLY the same weight progression scheme as SS
Which if the beginner in question followed, AMRAP shouldn't be necessary

>This is how we know that you at least either don't lift and just shitpost, or you do lift but shitpost to pass the time anyway. Either way, this is not a serious post.
startingstrength.com/article/the_first_three_questions

>sprinting/proweler
Sprinting can't be incrementally loaded and the prowler is not measuring power. Power is how quickly force can be produced.

>More frequent deadlifts
You only deadlift once a week?
reddit.com/r/Fitness/wiki/phraks-gslp

I'd argue that hypertrophy focused training (not to the exclusion of strength) is most appropriate for intermediate lifters. An advanced lifter will have already built the majority of the muscle that they will ever build and thus prs will come for neurological and technical improvements. Whereas an intermediate lifter still has plenty of muscle left to build before they hit their genetic ceiling and the weights start to get heavy enough to pose a serious injury risk, so periods of lighter hypertrophy training offer both the benefits of measurable hypertrophy (as opposed to such a training block for an advanced lifter) and reduced risk of injury.

I guess I kind of view the Texas method as only working for very early intermediates. Not that it's really an argument, but know one I know ever ran it for more than a year before they plateaud hard.

There are a few choices. The best beginner programs are SS, nSuns531 or a JTS program.

SS isn't that bad for a complete beginner although I do think that it is better than GSLP.

Decreasing your rest time is not the same thing as getting stronger idiot

Not the guy you're replying to but you're either trolling or a dumb fuck dyel which is most likely. If you can handle more volume in a lesser time, you are stronger.

Strength is a production of force.

The word you're looking for is power. Power being a production of force over a period of time.

He's very dogmatic. He's never coached an elite lifter. His programming prioritizes lifting heavy weights in the short term over all the other long-term drivers of success in the weight room and on the athletic field (conditioning/work capacity being one of the most important that he misses). He has this idea that every novice who can do power cleans must do power cleans, even though this almost invariably results in a weak beginner doing muscle cleans with garbage form, and virtually everyone else agrees that jumps, throws, and sprints are better than power cleans for developing explosiveness.
He doesn't believe that machines and isolation movements have any purpose in the programs of serious lifters, even though virtually every elite lifter does these exercises. He has a decent physiological analysis of the lifts, but he thinks that there's only one good way to perform the lifts, when the reality of lifting is that form differs greatly among good lifters.
He has this idea that because beginners are able to add weight to the bar every session, they must do so, and if they don't do so then beginner gains are "wasted". In reality, because beginners progress well on any program, it doesn't particularly matter what program they do. The best program for beginning lifters is one that develops the full range of athletic qualities (strength, explosiveness, proprioception, conditioning, etc.), which is what lifters did before the Starting Strength craze took off. 5/3/1 for Beginners is a good program that does this. Coincidentally, this is also what the Russians do, and they dominate the U.S. in powerlifting at every level.
If I tried I could probably think of more problems I have with him, but that's probably enough for now. I did run Starting Strength, a long time ago. Thankfully, some lifters who were much stronger than I was set me right.

>you are exerting force while sitting
It's called endurance, user. Endurance.

It's not a matter of strength, it's simply a matter of not wasting time and getting your job done faster.

>Coincidentally, this is also what the Russians do, and they dominate the U.S. in powerlifting at every level.

It's the russians bro, I'll give you 3 guesses to why they dominate us at every level. Be realistic, here.

Because we are not as autistic as americans are and know how to lift heavy shit?

because 100% of your competitors in every sport are exclusively people who have been fed hormones, steroids, hgh whatever since they were children

PS your world champion hockey team got beaten by a bunch of college kids who did not all go on to even become pros.

>deadlift 1x/week
Big weakness of gslp.

>This is why I said "Depending on what you mean by good"
Tldr backpedaling
>The majority of individuals will never need to run faster than 7 minutes in a mile. The majority of individuals DO need to increase their strength because strength is the best thing to increase general quality of life
Subjective, not an argument
>Having good cardiovascular endurance has ZERO benefit in squatting.
Learn to read, I said sprint
>Because the weight you choose to do 3x5 is too small if you could have done an extra 2 reps.
Stop using the word "choose". It's not in the progression scheme.
>Which if the beginner in question followed, AMRAP shouldn't be necessary
People stronger and more successful coaches than Rippetoe take advantage of good days with autoregulation, his authoritarianism or your stupidity mean diddly squat
>startingstrength.com/article/the_first_three_questions
Pic related
>You only deadlift once a week?
Yes, which is more than SS. In novice phase 3 (the longest one anyone would be in), you deadlift 0.75x week. Don't contest that before brushing up on the book.
You also do (chinups+rows) twice as often as chinups on ss (3x vs 1.5x) on GSLP

Not answering again, wasted enough time on an OBVIOUS troll. Bye

>because 100% of your competitors in every sport are exclusively people who have been fed hormones, steroids, hgh whatever since they were children
Well, welcome to fucking competitive high level sports. Thats how shit works. Those people aren't gonna live very long with their drug abuse, but who cares, somebody gotta take responsibility and lift barbells for the motherland and it better be the most talented people with the best drugs and best genetics training since they were children

>Tldr backpedaling
>hurr durr I'm too stoopid to read
>Subjective, not an argument
How many eldery people do you know that could benefit from cardio?
How many elderly people from running a mile in 5 minutes
How many elderly people do you know that can't even get up without the assistance of someone else? What would help them? Strength training? Boy you don't say

>Learn to read, I said sprint
And sprinting can somehow increase strength levels?

>Pic related
Did you read the article you stupid idiot?
It's a suggestion as to why individuals stall and how to fix it
Protip: It's not deloading 10 times in a row
You don't get stronger by deloading. You get stronger by following the program correctly.

>Yes, which is more than SS. In novice phase 3 (the longest one anyone would be in), you deadlift 0.75x week. Don't contest that before brushing up on the book.
Phase 3 is for the advanced novice. Phase 2 is by far more likely to stretch a longer time period bruh.

No, welcome to Russia. America just produces superior athletes

>row
>Starting Strength
yndtp