How do you even get to the point that your Evil Alliance is so terrible-comic-book-level evil and inept that if someone...

How do you even get to the point that your Evil Alliance is so terrible-comic-book-level evil and inept that if someone made them up as fictional villains no one would take it seriously because they're so over-the-top no one would believe anyone could actually be that evil and inept?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II
youtu.be/LwBeGY0pjkY?t=26m46s
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword
twitter.com/AnonBabble

First half of a new century is always a weird time.

What did they do that the Allies didn't do?

Come on user, that's too easy.

Japanese were pretty bad, if only the Chinese had accepted participation in the co prosperity sphere... seriously very little would change for the average non communist Chinese

The Allies committed massacres and atrocities against civilians, including their own civilians.

The carpet bombing and nukes don't count, and even if they did it's not even close in severity.

Why don't they count? Because of your feelings?

Anyway, I was talking about actual massacres committed by Allied soldiers directly against civilians using firearms and physical contact, including Allied civilians in the case of the Soviets massacring Soviet citizens. Other atrocities committed by Allies include mass rape, torture, mutilation, using biological warfare agents, and death camps, etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II

And who gives a fuck about scale? "Oh you ate ten babies and I only ate five babies." The Axis and the Allies were playing the same sport. Not even in different leagues. The same league. The Axis were better at it but that doesn't mean the Allies didn't score plenty of goals.

My country was an Allied nation and soldiers from my country both committed massacres and suffered massacres. This shit happened 70 years ago. You can admit it without losing face. For the love of God, just be honest.

The Soviets don't really count since they aren't really on the same side as the Western democracies, they just happen to have the same opponent.

As for those westerners, they committed virtually no warcrimes; any they did were not widespread, and were not officially sanctioned or systemic.

The Axis did what they did systemically and intentionally under the supervision and authorization of the state itself, and devoted vast resources towards enslaving, oppressing, and genociding the civilians of occupied territory as well as their own. It is absolutely and completely not on the same plane and to say other wise is revisionism. That the Allies treated their defeated enemies and their civilians astronomically better than the Axis did is not disputable.

I guess allies meant to him only the US and fucking A.
I'm from an Axis country and you can't compare those massacres, the soviet ones you can compare but it is still a wrong thing to look at this time with modern ethics.
It was total war and everything was part of the war machinery

>including their own civilians
>m-muh japanese internment camps

Yes, they were bad. Nobody argues otherwise. In fact, the US has apologized for doing it. How-fucking-ever, they were not on the same scale as any of the Axis' atrocities and you know it. The worst part about being in the camps, after the whole "being arrested and removed from your home" part, was the sheer boredom. They weren't starved. There weren't rampant """typhus outbreaks"'"". Despite being crimes, they were objectively nowhere near as bad as what the Germans or Japanese did.

>mass rape
Not our fault. How are we supposed to control 100K thirsty sandniggers seriously? Be glad they actually fought.

>Literally call themselves the "Axis of Evil"

Japs are still vile creatures. They just hide it under a mask of politeness.

Churchill recommended testing biological weapons on Indian and Iraqi civilians.

>death rate of german pows in the USSR: 33%
>death rate of italian pows in the USSR: 79%
Damn, slavs must really hate spaghetti.

>The Soviets don't really count since they aren't really
>Why don't they count? Because of your feelings?

Honestly, we can know automatically that the Allies were morally superior to the Axis because Germany and Japan are places that still exist, and are even successful besides, whereas no one can say with a straight face that the same could be said of every country East of Germany, or every country in East Asia/the Pacific, if the Axis were victorious.

That and the Allies didn't start the war, while all three Axis countries were aggressors.

>Germany as the aloof, scheming main villain who launches the grand plan for world conquest
>Japan as the ruthless second-in-command who starts a personal vendetta with one of the heroes, only to be defeated by said hero in a final confrontation after the climax
>Italy as the clumsy comic relief villain who loses to the heroes every time but is still kept around for some reason. Eventually joins the heroes after being pushed around by the main villain too much
Oh my God it's perfect. Bonus points for the USSR being the edgy anti-hero who only joins the heroes because they were betrayed by the villain and have a score to settle.

Oh no one dead baby.
In pic related probably hundreds if not thousands of people are burning alive. But Stalin said it best The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.

>Churchill recommended testing biological weapons but nothing actually came of it
>this is comparable to the Nazi’s approach and implementation of genocide on an industrial scale

I agree that the allies did some despicable things too, but the point of this thread is that the axis were a truly evil coalition. To dispute that, and claim the western allies (fuck you USSR) were somehow worse, is illogical.

>how could the US have bombed poor, innocent Japan
>they should have just landed and tried to take over the island of suicidal fanatics conventionally

for all the idiots saying that the allies did not use systematic slave labor or forced exploitation, of course they did not do it if 9/10 of the world was theirs and they had plentitude of colonial subjects for that besides all the resources of the planet, they never suffered lack of labor or hunger unlike the countries of the axis.
That is why they did what they did except perhaps for the Japanese in China, they killed civilians for sport

>The Soviets don't really count since they aren't really on the same side as the Western democracies, they just happen to have the same opponent.
They absolutely do count and you know it. I don't care about your stupid feelings.

>As for those westerners, they committed virtually no warcrimes; any they did were not widespread, and were not officially sanctioned or systemic.
They committed warcrimes. Terror bombings and guerilla warfare and assassinations were condoned by officials. Some massacres were never prosecuted.

>The Axis did what they did systemically and intentionally under the supervision and authorization of the state itself, and devoted vast resources towards enslaving, oppressing, and genociding the civilians of occupied territory as well as their own.
Ever heard of the Soviet Union?

>It is absolutely and completely not on the same plane and to say other wise is revisionism.
The crimes of the Axis do not excuse the crimes of the Allies. The Axis could have killed billions of people and that would change what the Allies did. Morality is not relative.

>That the Allies treated their defeated enemies and their civilians astronomically better than the Axis did is not disputable.
The Allies cut Germany in half, ethnically cleansed Eastern Europe of Germans, and killed 5,000,000 Germans in the five years after the war during peacetime. The Soviets raped eastern Europe under totalitarian imperialism for decades. You're a liar.

Comparing USA with the Axis, you can at least say the Axis ever dropped nukes on anyone.

The Soviet Gulag system was larger and operated for longer than the German concentration camp system and included death camps and gassing. Japanese interment camps aren't what I had in mind.

Congrats you quoted two different posters.

The Soviets actually deployed biological weapons on the eastern front and managed to kill a ton of their own civilians.

You honestly think that Germany still exists?

>surprise attacks you
>commits war crimes against your captured soldiers.
>literally spears babies and rape women en mass
>surrendering soldiers known to try to feign defeat in an attempt to kill as many people as possible


For the Germans
>Genocides Jews because they just can't accept the fact that they lost and were always going to lose WW1.
>Bombs Cities full of Civilians because why not, damaging them heavily
>Tries to kill as many poles and Slavs as possible so they can replace them with Germans.
>SS and Eitzengruppen literally units dedicated to crimes against humanity.

And it all leads out too
>Oy vey, lets talk about how the Allies are the real evil ones. Muh Dresden and Tokyo, why do they treat us so bad?

I couldn't care less about the 2 nukes the U.S dropped on japan, that was needed, since the japanese were lunatics that fought 'til the last minute just because a boy with a pubescent mustache back in the mainland told them to.

The japanese WERE worse than the germans, and don't reply me if you'll you're a weeb filled with propaganda up your ass, the truth is there and the chinese will never forget it.

I honestly agree about the Japs being worse than the Germans. The Germans were Ideologically driven to do the things they did. The Japs did it half the time not because of ideology, but just because they could.

"Torturing"

More liking killing them.

>Comparing USA with the Axis, you can at least say the Axis ever dropped nukes on anyone
>My side is morally superior because they didn't use a weapon they didn't have access to
What did he mean by this?

the GULAG still had a lower death rate than the concentration camps

>and killed 5,000,000 Germans in the five years after the war during peacetime
Also the Soviets unironically treated Eastern Europe way better than the Nazis would have if they were in charge.

>t. retard.

The Axis isn't my side at all. My country was Allied. I just acknowledge the fact that the Allies weren't morally pure angels descended from on high to fight the Devil incarnate. Not everything they did was justified. I agree that the Axis were worse overall but that doesn't excuse the warcrimes the Allies did commit.

Ony because the Soviets were less competent and their concentration camps were less efficient so they relied on famine to do most of their mass killing.

>Ony because the Soviets were less competent and their concentration camps were less efficient so they relied on famine to do most of their mass killing.
yeah, they should have released the typhus

>mfw Arthur Harris wiped out the entire German nation during his bombing runs and "Germany" is actually a ruse created by the Swiss in order to cuck America and Russia into wasting all their money on military spending

Look it up. 3,000,000 civilians died in the ethnic cleansings in eastern Europe. All those trains full of German POWs that rolled off to Siberia and never came back, where do you think they took them? Funkytown?

>The Axis isn't my side at all. My country was Allied. I just acknowledge the fact that the Allies weren't morally pure angels descended from on high to fight the Devil incarnate. Not everything they did was justified. I agree that the Axis were worse overall but that doesn't excuse the warcrimes the Allies did commit.
Your point was still stupid

The War destroyed the German people. The Cia and Stasi psyoped them to oblivion. Germans are a vanishing soon-to-be minority in Germany now. That country has no future.

>The Axis isn't my side at all. My country was Allied. I just acknowledge the fact that the Allies weren't morally pure angels descended from on high to fight the Devil incarnate. Not everything they did was justified. I agree that the Axis were worse overall but that doesn't excuse the warcrimes the Allies did commit.

You're right. It doesn't excuse Allied crimes. But if you think I'll feel sorry for the Germans and Japs after all the stuff they did then that's wrong.

>All those trains full of German POWs that rolled off to Siberia and never came back, where do you think they took them? Funkytown?
well 39% of them died and the rest did come back

No, it's a valid point. Regardless of circumstances, using nuclear weapons on people is an atrocity. In itself such an action is evil. Taking outside factors into consideration can provide at best justification. Those bombings were horrible events. It isn't stupid to acknowledge that. Step outside of your tribal tit-for-tat mindset for a moment and try to appreciate it for what it is.

War is ugly and you can't expect sympathy in one. But it's over. The people alive at the time are dead and gone. I'm not asking you to feel sorry for them. Maybe just to give up any resentment you might have. I don't think it's honest to paint whole nations as good or evil, or to say that evil acts stain future generations of a country forever. I'd rather just let the dead rest instead of propping up their bones as puppets for the Saturday morning children's show version of history.

> Veeky Forums
> "Evil"

Why? Literally why? Explain to me why using nuclear weapons is automatically an atrocity. The general consensus among virtually all mainstream historians is that more lives were saved by the war immediately ending than were claimed by the two bombings.

Most of your points pertain to the USSR. While they indisputably were one of the Allies, when people on here talk about the Allies being morally superior, they're using shorthand - they mean "the liberal democratic members of the Allies." From a western perspective, coming at it from this side of the Cold War, it goes without saying that the Soviets were not Good Guys (tm).

I think it's fairly apparent that that's what he meant, and arguing over whether or not the Soviets "count" as "being on the same side" or not basically amounts to wanking. So let's rephrase things. Recast "The Allies were morally superior" as "the Allies, excluding the Soviet Union, were morally superior, although of course imperfect." Do you still disagree?

No, it isn't. Your point was "At least the Axis didn't use nuclear weapons" but you can't use a weapon you don't fucking have. It says nothing about what they were willing to do.

If the Axis had won we would have a thread with this exact same premise, just with the nations reversed.

no we wouldn't, Veeky Forums wouldn't even exist

>Explain to me why using nuclear weapons is automatically an atrocity.
What about if we use it in your house?

Are you trying to be cute and funny, or do you genuinely think you have any kind of a point here?

>Explain to me why using nuclear weapons is automatically an atrocity. The general consensus among virtually all mainstream historians is that more lives were saved by the war immediately ending than were claimed by the two bombings.
That's a justification, like I said. In themselves, the bombings were atrocities.

>Recast "The Allies were morally superior" as "the Allies, excluding the Soviet Union, were morally superior, although of course imperfect." Do you still disagree?
That isn't what I meant by Allies when I said...
I included the Soviet Union. Of course the Soviets were the worst of the Allies. If you don't want to be associated with someone, don't associate with them. If you want to say the Western Allies were morally superior to the Axis, you don't even need to mention the war, because the Western Allies weren't totalitarians or even authoritarian, so they get a bonus just from that. So yes, I agree with that statement, but it was MY question that started this argument and I stand by it.

That isnt even whataboutism. That's hypothetical whataboutism.

Yeah we'd be using 2 chan.

What is often brushed under the rug about the internment camps is that they were implemented only because of how quickly Japanese-Americans with no prior history of anti-Americanism turned on their country in the Niihau incident.

Of course it's a justification. But it's a legitimate one. A justification isn't the same as a rationalization.

It's a justification in the sense that it does indeed justify the bombings. Remove all the context and of course incinerating tens to hundreds of thousands of civilians is an atrocity, but the action didn't occur in a vacuum; there were literally no better options. That means it's in no sense as bad as any of the Axis war crimes. It's barely even comparable to them, as those weren't "lesser of two evils" choices taken out of necessity that saved lives in the aggregate, but unnecessary (and unnecessarily brutal) murders.

As for the USSR, similarly, the western Allies associated with them out of necessity. You have to make decisions like that in wartime. Frankly, it seems like you and the people you're arguing with are arguing at cross purposes and don't actually disagree. Whether the western Allies and the USSR are considered part of the same "team" is a judgment call and amounts to quibbling over semantics. Whether or not you group them together depends on the conversation you're having, just the way Finland is sometimes classified as an Axis power and sometimes not, because they were ideological opposed to Germany but allied with them out of necessity.

You have to be extremely, extremely pissed off about the current state of affairs. Kind of like what's happening now

Lose.

>Oh no one dead baby
does anyone have that japanese war crimes denial image? I think it would be handy in this situation

they simply do not count. Each german vermin killed by bombs or raped by soviets made God smile

>muh1000000 gorilion dead germans

also

Morality is relative

You do realize you only perceive these nations and their aesthetic as evil because they have been used as the epitome of evil in all cultural works since 1945? From literal allied WW2 propaganda to hollywood movies picking up the style.

...

the new deal didn't go far enough

Fascism really was quite theatrical.

>ISIS
>HEAD
>QUARTERS

>hundreds if not thousands of people are burning alive

too bad it wasn't more

no it's the headquarters of Abdel Fattah el-Sisi

this is proof ww2 was kino

>One dead baby
Thousands of children were massacred and little girls raped in the Rape of Nanking

>Muh death and statistic quote
Stalin probably didn't even say that

>Tokyo firebombing
The Japs deserved that for the shit they did. And I say that stone cold unironicaply. Plus firebombing and nuking them killed less than a full-on invasion would have.

What a bunch of shit. We perceive them as evil because they committed huge-scale atrocities against civilians. Every war is accompanied by a propaganda campaign. Usually time heals those wounds, there's a reason that in this case it hasn't.

How can you call USA, UK and Russia "morally superior"? Was the Allies propaganda so good that still works today?

>how can you say the people who killed less people are morally superior to the people who killed more people

That's from a movie, retard

>that pic
You can't be serious

Why are yellow monkeys so violent and sadistic? Literally worse than niggers.

Source?

>he thinks they would document themselves stabbing a fucking baby

It's from a Chinese movie.

t. Suzuki

youtu.be/LwBeGY0pjkY?t=26m46s

Germany had their own nuclear bomb project though.

"But Stalin said it best The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic."

That's a quote from All Quiet on the Western Front you fucking dunce. Stop getting your facts from fucking Buzzfeed.

Spotted the Japanese shill

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword

>"In 1937, the Osaka Mainichi Shimbun and its sister newspaper the Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun covered a contest between two Japanese officers, Toshiaki Mukai (向井敏明) and Tsuyoshi Noda (野田毅), in which the two men were described as vying with one another to be the first to kill 100 people with a sword. The competition supposedly took place en route to Nanking, directly prior to the infamous Nanking Massacre, and was covered in four articles, from November 30 to December 13, 1937, the two last being translated in the Japan Advertiser."

>a German soldier in 1918 quoting Stalin
yikes

t. Chang

I'm not saying the Japanese didn't commit warcrimes, but believing that photo is in any way true is ultimate brainletry.

Then show us exactly which movie it came from

Your argument essentially being ">he thinks they would document themselves stabbing a fucking baby"

You clearly have no understanding of morality in 1940's Asia then.

It's actually from The Black Obelisk, by the same author as All Quiet on the Western Front

Cannot recall the source right now, but I remember reading about it. You can already tell it's fake by how ridiculous the bayonet blade looks like (enormous and facing the wrong way). There are no Japanese WW2 rifles that look anything like that.

Has no one honestly mentioned the biological experiments and torture that the Germans and Japanese employed?
Here are a list of the types of investigations that they performed en masse on Jews and POWs:
Experiments on twins
Bone, muscle, and nerve transplantation experiments
Head injury experiments
Freezing experiments
Malaria experiments
Immunization experiments
Mustard gas experiments
Sulfonamide experiments
Sea water experiments
Sterilization and fertility experiments
Experiments with poison
Incendiary bomb experiments
High altitude experiments
Blood coagulation experiments
B-but, the U.S. had internment camps!
Oh, and these were only examples of Nazi experiments. The Japanese versions are considered even more cruel.

This entire thread (part 1)

This entire thread (part 2)

Cold War was objectively more "weird" than world wars + interwar. As was the late 19th, and late 18th. Where does your claim come from?

...

>This is what Allied countries actually believe
Oh yes, because Britain's, France, and US history is so filled with heroisim and morality. Even during the great anti-fascist war you managed to massacre civilians and cause immense famines using the exact same justification the fascists used
>B-b-but we were just doing it to defeat our mortal enemies!
>They had it coming!
>They are the *definition* of evil

Now to post the only good one of these memes

And the US gladly accepted said research in exchange for immunity.

>it's a "we need to show the heroes in a morally questionable light so let's bring up the japanese internment camps" episode

>Cannot recall the source right now
That’s called an un-backed claim retard

I love these types of posts

>France is the early casualty that stays comatose for most of the conflict and whose absense forces the heroes to cooperate with the ex-villain that they absolutely hate
>the UK is the smart guy who would lose on a 1 on 1 with the villains, but whose provides key support to the heroes
>China is the hostage-consort of one of the villains who ends up broken beyond repair by the ordeal, hooks up with the ex-villain against the heroes and eventually becomes an antagonist on her own right through sheer cunning