How did people start to consider this to be a full individual with personhood rights?

But people will object to it being in any way mistreated even when there's a 0% chance it will develop into a complete human being. People oppose stem cell research because they use impregnated eggs for science even tough the alternative is to throw them in the trash.

They gave permission to the dick, not to the zygote. Women have sex because it reinforces the bond of love, not necessarily to have children. Even if you love your husband you don't want to either a) be forced to spawn 12 kids or b) force him to be celibate or c) be forced to perform sex acts you hate, which is not good for your mental health. You want d) have satisfying sex with your husband without it resulting in children unless you explicitly want any in this case.
That's why women have always used birth control and/or abortion.

not one of those dead skins cells have an active organelles, nor are they on their way to forming the entirety of a human body for themselves.

So basically women should be able to have sex but shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything that might come of it?

They don't. They believe soul enters the sperm/egg because a book written by men which said God told them to write it tells it.

>nor are they on their way
Neither is the zygote
it depends entirely on the uterus, it's not some independent thing that can exist on its own

Does this make it wrong to use a condom in sex because the sperm contains everything needed to create a person if it is just allowed to reach the egg?

So what? Why does it make a difference?

Should we create laws that make organelles have rights?

>killing other people because you want a consequence free life
Pro-abort people need to fucking grow up.

Yes. Sex doesn't have a single purpose and you can't force people to assume "responsibilities" they don't have, since that wasn't the purpose in the first place. If you deny people sex, that only creates damage for them. This applies to married couples as well.

You don't want people to use birth control/abortion? Let women have free, immediate, no-questions-asked sterilization on demand. As long as doctors deny women this, they'll always have to use other methods to keep the unwanted burdens out.

No, because that would mean that every time you fap, you're genociding millions of potential humans. It only starts to matter once an egg has been fertilised; a sperm and an egg alone can't become a person.

What is wrong with avoiding a bad consequence when you know you can and you should for your own good? Would you rather people be forced to have kids they hate and don't want to keep so they can become burdens on society?

You people are irrational.

>sperm contains everything needed to create a person
Look at this retard. Sperm is only one part of the process. A sperm cell cannot grow into a human by itself.

Why is Veeky Forums the only board against abortion? Christfags?

When you fap there's no place available for the sperm to fertilize an egg and the sperm would die and be washed away within a month anyway.
If you eject into a woman there will be potential for the sperm to reach an egg and create a person. By using a condom your'e spoiling that potential.
A sperm can't make a person alone but neither can a fertilized egg.

this board is known as the christard containment board for a reason

>what's /pol/?

Libs have shown themselves it seems.

Neither can the fertilized egg alone, it needs the uterus. A fertilized egg that fails to attach to the uterus has exactly the same chance of becoming a person as a sperm and an egg alone do. And the uterus is the woman's property, if she doesn't want to lend it to the egg, she shouldn't be forced to, that just causes vastly documented damage to both the woman and the future person.

/pol/ supports abortion and eugenics though.

Veeky Forums has quite a few ChristLARPers as well

This. Why is this so hard to understand? I'm a massive libtard but abortion is murder, no matter how you look at it.

Only for people they don't like.

Use birth control or close your legs. I know people with the emotional maturity of a 13 year old find this a difficult message swallow but always getting what you want is inconsistent with being a non-shitty human.

>ITT: people who don't know how pregnancy works

The embryo needs to implant in the uterus or it's as good as period blood retards

A fertilized egg does not contain everything it needs to become a fully grown person either. Still needs that umbilical cord for food and oxygen.

It would seem to me that an unfertilized egg is a 'potential person' in the same way a fertilized one is. Is 'trillions of blood cells and food and oxygen' really that morally distinguishable from 'trillions of blood cells and food and oxygen and one single sperm cell'?

Most abortion laws permit termination weeks after implantation.

why tho
what is the benefit

>Use birth control
If you're okay with birth control, why do you pull the whole "killing a zygote is murder, a fertilized egg is a person blah blah blah" spiel? You're contradicting yourself.

>close your legs
Sure user, then when the husband/bf asks his wife/gf why she doesn't love him anymore she can point you and tell him to beat the shit out of you, which he'll promptly do.

>break your leg mountain climbing
>go to the hospital to get it fixed
>Wow, so you think you can just avoid all consequences from your actions? You knew mountain climbing carried a risk of broken limbs, you should just accept it.
>B-but why not put a cast on it so it can heal properly? Even if I grant that shouldn't have been climbing a mountain, why allow this to permanently fuck up my life?
>You can't always get what you want you immature baby. Looks like you have a lot of growing up to do.

But I thought you people were for "life starts at conception"?

That image you posted doesn't contradict his point at all, because it shows that birth control doesn't kill the embryo.

A human life begins at conception.

Abortion is murder. Regardless of its de jure legal status, it is murder.

Willingly and knowingly performing or undergoing, or even materially or morally supporting an abortion or the political cause of abortion, is a mortal sin that severs your connection to God and kills your soul.

If you support abortion, you are personally a murderer, a mass murderer, and responsible for the largest genocide in human history, larger than every other genocide in history combined and multiplied by an order of magnitude.

Over one billion unborn children have been murdered since 1975.

24% of my generation was murdered in the womb. My best friend survived an abortion attempt and has suffered lifelong health consequences as a result. The abortion industry is industrialized child sacrifice to Satan.

In a just society, you would be tried by a court of law with due process and executed for publicly supporting abortion. In the next world you will be simply burning in Hell.

I pray for your conversion and your repentance from this horrible, hideous sin. I doubt it is your worst. God have mercy.

>it shows that birth control doesn't kill the embryo

What is "Alters endometrium" for $500 Alex?

The egg embodies itself after it is fertilized and has become a person. By hindering that you are effectively killing the zygote.

>If you support abortion, you are personally responsible for the largest genocide in human history
>I doubt it is your worst sin
Damn, I'm almost flattered.

Fair enough but you're fixating on one of many many different birth control options. Violence against the potential child is not a necessity.

>responding to the wanna be fundies

Except if we follow the logic of the egg having the potential for a human then using condoms is murder as well because it hinders the sperm cells from reaching the egg.
The zygote has everything needed to create a person if it reaches the womb and the sperm has everything needed to create a human if it just reaches the egg.

Birth control alters the endometrium before conception though, since regular birth control doesn't work if you take it after sex (plan b does, but this is the regular everyday kind we're talking about here)

Thus the zygote never had a chance in the first place, since it never hand an hospitable place to attach itself. Birth control in this case is like a squatter managing to break in into your house, but finding only moving floors underneath him that carry him back out.

>get leg amputated mountain climbing because you're an unskilled impulsive cunt
>saw off some third party's leg and attach it you

Murder is a sin against your neighbour, even a sin that cries out to Heaven. But you've also sinned against God.

I'm obviously not a Fundamentalist if I draw a distinction between venial and mortal sin. Know what you're talking about before you open your mouth again.

Not killing another human you utilitarian nitwit.

Chill out, zealous brainlet fanatic.
kek

Stop murdering children and supporting the murder of children.

>Fair enough but you're fixating on one of many many different birth control options

That's how the pill works, the most efficient and popular type of birth control among women because 1) they control it themselves, don't need to rely on a men as with condoms and 2) it has many other health benefits too. Women who don't have sex still take the pill to regulate menstruation, for example. Women won't give up something so beneficial to them.

Also this.

>A human life begins at conception.
For the purposes of moral agency It begins when they have a developed will and sufficient language skills.

>Abortion is murder. Regardless of its de jure legal status, it is murder.
Citation needed.

>Willingly and knowingly performing or undergoing, or even materially or morally supporting an abortion or the political cause of abortion, is a mortal sin that severs your connection to God and kills your soul.
That's everyone's personal choice if they want to have their 'personal relationship with God' severed or not.

>If you support abortion, you are personally a murderer, a mass murderer, and responsible for the largest genocide in human history, larger than every other genocide in history combined and multiplied by an order of magnitude.
>Over one billion unborn children have been murdered since 1975.
>24% of my generation was murdered in the womb. My best friend survived an abortion attempt and has suffered lifelong health consequences as a result. The abortion industry is industrialized child sacrifice to Satan.
>In a just society, you would be tried by a court of law with due process and executed for publicly supporting abortion. In the next world you will be simply burning in Hell.
>I pray for your conversion and your repentance from this horrible, hideous sin. I doubt it is your worst. God have mercy.
It's just emotions and your personal religious beliefs, which, for the record, are not ethics arguments.

It does. But adding another arbitrary barrier like implantation is pointless because no one takes it into consideration for legislation anyway.
For me it doesn't really matter whether one phase of the pregnancy has a higher failure rate than another. As soon as you've got all the ingredients for a human being any act you undertake to terminate this process constitutes to murder in my eyes.

But that's just my opinion, I can't find a rational to distinguish murder from abortion. But that doesn't mean I don't see the benefits from abortion laws. It's been shown to reduce crime and women will get abortions regardless, even if it means putting their own lifes at risk. But none of that is sufficient justification to murder individuals who have no say in the matter. But that is, yet again, simply my opinion.

I have a question for you.
Is it not a sin to bring someone onto this world for him to live but also suffer, experience hardships, stress etc.?
Who gives anyone the right to decide for others what they want or need?
Stop assuming that EVERYONE would want to get born into this world.
So as long as we can't know if they said person that was conceived wishes to be born into this world, we can't neither prove or disprove their stance on this question.
So by your logic you might be killing the said "person" or you might be forcing them into several decades long life of turmoil, suffering but also positive things without their consent.
Both are sins by such definition!

>As soon as you've got all the ingredients for a human being
So after 5-6 weeks of pregnancy, which is when an ultrasound finding can confirm whether implantation has taken place or not

Therefore no reason to be against birth control, emergency birth control or medical abortion which is performed up to the 49th day of pregnancy (in time before implantation has occured)

I have a question for you too.
Who are you to make that decision for someone else?

>society A turns its back on God and renounces religion
>society B remains faithful to God and keeps practicing religion
>society A institutes no fault divorce, makes working mandatory for women, encourages fornication and adultery, discourages marriage, adopts mass contraception and abortion, and worships sodomy
>society B keeps divorce illegal, discourages women from working, encourages marriage, discourages fornication and adultery, keeps contraception and abortion illegal, and abhors sodomy
>society A's fertility rate drops below replacement levels, the population dwindles, its culture decays and fragments, its institutions crumble
>society B's fertility rate surges, the population explodes, its culture is young and vital and united, its institutions strengthen
>the surplus population of society B begins to flood into society A's territory, displacing and replacing society A on a mass scale while raping their women and pillaging their public coffers, and terrorizing and killing them with absolute impunity

Sin has consequences. Enjoy being replaced by Mexicans/Africans.

>birthrate is all that matters

You know a uterus prepared to a certain level of thickness in its lining is a necessary ingredient to make a human being too, right?

No uterus, no human being. No egg will ever grow into anything if it doesn't find a specific condition in the uterus to attach itself to. A fertilized egg will not grow into a human being by itself, that's scientifically wrong.

Someone who is in a better position to make a rational decision that the supposed full fledged human inside the womb might or might not have an acceptable level of life if they were to get born into this world.
Would you want a couple/mother bring the child onto this world, if they/she knows that in their/her current financial circumstances they/she wouldn't be able to properly provide for their/her child(ren)?
>inb4 then they shouldn't have had sex
Damn, it's not like accidents never happen...

Would you force a woman that was raped and forcefully impregnated to keep the baby inside her and take care of it while recalling the heinous crime that happened to her every time she looks onto her child?
You anti-abortion fags are really something sometimes.

Honestly, I'm for abortions only in 3 cases:
1. Financial/Cultural etc. difficulties that would result in the child(ren) having a tough/very problematic life if they were brought into this world.
2. The said woman was literally raped against her will or something really fucked up happen for her to not wish for the baby inside her to get born. (not that she just stopped loving her husband or whatever, mind you)
3. It would be needed to save the mother's life.

>For the purposes of moral agency It begins when they have a developed will and sufficient language skills.
For the purpose of determining what is a human life, human life begins at conception.

>Citation needed.
You need a lot more than a citation. Your entire worldview and personality is totally corrupted and you are evil.

>That's everyone's personal choice if they want to have their 'personal relationship with God' severed or not.
And you've chosen damnation. A just society would speed you along to your destination.

>It's just emotions and your personal religious beliefs, which, for the record, are not ethics arguments.
The numbers and statistics I mentioned and my friends experience of having survived a botched abortion are not my emotions nor my personal religious beliefs. You're a liar and a fool and you're so dishonest and so foolish that you can't even formulate a logical rebuttal. I dismiss you as an interlucutor. If someone more intelligent wants to step up, please do, but I'm done with you.

I have a question for you. You're obviously a miserable, evil person, and the world would be a better place without you. In your opinion, would that justify someone else ending your life? Of course it wouldn't. Murder is wrong. Even you killing yourself would be wrong. Suicide is wrong. You need to change and grow and mature and develop as a person, and you can't do that if you're dead. Maybe once you get out of your teens and get past how badly your parents fucked up in raising you and abandon your retarded opinions you might actually become a decent, happy person. So it would be wrong for anyone to deny you that possibility. And any random fetus has a much higher chance of becoming a good person than you currently do.

Your society is literally being conquered as we speak because you murdered all your babies.

>Someone who is in a better position to make a rational decision that the supposed full fledged human inside the womb might or might not have an acceptable level of life if they were to get born into this world
Better start murdering all poor kids then. Seriously what kind of a retarded argument is this? As soon as you think you're in a better position to judge whether life is worth living or not than someone else anything is up for grabs.

point 1, actions have consequences. No one should to die because you were retarded enough to no use birth control in this day and age.
point 2, this case is so rare it's not even worth taking into consideration.
point 3, agreed.

>human life begins at conception

If that were true we wouldn't need to wait 6 weeks at least to confirm pregnancy with an ultrasound

Biologically conception is merely a potential that depends on external factors, see pic related

Educate yourselves retards

>For the purpose of determining what is a human life, human life begins at conception.
That's both wrong and irrelevant. Life is a cycle and has no 'beginning', and being a human 'life' does not make you a moral agent with 'rights'.

>You need a lot more than a citation. Your entire worldview and personality is totally corrupted and you are evil.
not an argument

>And you've chosen damnation. A just society would speed you along to your destination.
Why are you here then, don't you have an abortion clinic to bomb then? I'm sure all those innocent babies don't mind waiting a little while longer while you shitpost on a Bolivian stamp-collecting forum though.

>The numbers and statistics I mentioned and my friends experience of having survived a botched abortion are not my emotions nor my personal religious beliefs.
Those numbers are as irrelevant as the never-ending 'genocide' of menstruation and jerking off.

>You're a liar and a fool and you're so dishonest and so foolish that you can't even formulate a logical rebuttal. I dismiss you as an interlucutor. If someone more intelligent wants to step up, please do, but I'm done with you.
I tip my fedora to you, euphoric sir.

Ectopic pregnancies have resulted in healthy babies. It's extremely rare but possible.

>Would you...
Absolutely. You're the descendant of rape babies. There's some insane feminist cunt out there somewhere obsessed with rape who can't look at you or anything else without thinking of rape. Should we destroy the universe and kill everyone then just to protect someone's precious little feelings because she happens to have a vagina?

>You anti-abortion fags are really something sometimes.
The word faggot means a bundle of sticks assembled for burning in fires. Calling someone a fag means that they're fit to burn in hellfire. That sounds like a better descriptor for someone who supports murdering unborn children, fag.

>Honestly, I'm for abortions only in 3 cases:
>1. Financial/Cultural etc. difficulties that would result in the child(ren) having a tough/very problematic life if they were brought into this world.
oh no God forbid anyone should not be raised middle class I can't imagine anything more horrible than that the very thought makes me cringe oh heaven forbid how could people stand it oh my oh my it scandalized my bleeding bergoius little heart

>2. The said woman was literally raped against her will or something really fucked up happen for her to not wish for the baby inside her to get born. (not that she just stopped loving her husband or whatever, mind you)
Yes the sins of the father should totally be visited on the son. Your father you never met robbed a bank in 1963? Off to prison with you! Your father "raped" someone years before he met your mother? Off with your head!

>3. It would be needed to save the mother's life.
A baby is worth more than an adult. If the doctor had to choose between a baby and a woman, and they have equal chance of surviving, he should choose the baby. If there's little chance the baby would survive, he should choose the woman. Of course this situation barely ever happens.

>4. It's more convenient for the woman.
Oh wait that's 99.9% of abortions right there why did you even mention the other categories???

I already said I'm finished with you. You're unworthy as an interlucutor.

I love how you people assume stuff about other people and call them "evil" or whatever to fuel your arguments.
>In your opinion, would that justify someone else ending your life? Of course it wouldn't.
Stop assuming shit about other people. If there was a good reason for my life to end, I wouldn't mind, as long as the reason was rational and made sense.
>Even you killing yourself would be wrong. Suicide is wrong.
I agree but my reason for that is probably different from yours. I see suicide as an escape, it's not in my nature to just capitulate. I can't honestly think of a reason I would be willing to kill myself over, unless it would be set in stone that I would die in constant pain and/or be a mental and potentially financial burden to my loved ones.
>And any random fetus has a much higher chance of becoming a good person than you currently do.
How can you even assume stuff like that about someone? I consider myself a happy, good-natured person, but also one that thinks with my head first.
Humans do that all the time, you know?
Not just to other people (not fetuses) but also to nature and animals, as well.
And I will ALWAYS judge a life that is without slightest of a doubt bound to be unfulfilling (the said child will be completely retarded, mentally ill, disabled etc. all at once and have completely unfulfilling life while being only burden to others) as a life not worth living. I CERTAINLY wouldn't wish to live such a life. I know I'm being hypocritical now, but I bet you wouldn't want to live such a life either.
So yes! There are times where a person can judge whenever someone's life is worth living.

I wasn't replying to the post for you or because I wanted a response; it was just to make it clear to everyone else that you're a fucking retard.

You support abortion. That tells me everything I need to know about you as a person. Your post confirmed everything I thought.

Then you're unworthy of sitting at the retard table. What's below retard? Moron or imbecile? Anyway that's you.

It might have not been you, but didn't you said:

>2. The said woman was literally raped against her will or something really fucked up happen for her to not wish for the baby inside her to get born. (not that she just stopped loving her husband or whatever, mind you)
>point 2, this case is so rare it's not even worth taking into consideration.

>3. It would be needed to save the mother's life.
>point 3, agreed.

The absolute STATE of Veeky Forums

...

No I didn't say that.

It's also the leading cause of death for women in the first trimester, an ectopic pregnancy is insanely risky for the mother that's why 99.99999% of successful pregnancies take place in the womb.

What happens if I cut a zygote in two? Did I murder it?

Then explain something to me.
How can you label someone off as "evil", miserable etc. person simply because they don't share your view on abortion?
Or do you really truly believe that anyone who doesn't share your views is objectively a bad, miserable person?

Why are you parroting what I already said? I was pointing out that implantation in the uterus is not an absolute prerequisite.

By the same logic even babies aren't human beings.

That's funny. I'm a moderate who leans conservative because I really like guns and yet I still don't see how a chemically induced miscarriage can be reasonably compared to murder. That zygote isn't a person in any reasonably sense of the term so there is no moral issue with killing(not murder, killing. what is or isn't murder is a matter of the law) it. Nor is there any compelling reason to make killing zygotes a crime.

This post is a gigantic ipse dixit

>What happens if I cut a zygote in two? Did I murder it?
Yes.

Little known fact, identical twins are actually zombies and must be eliminated.

You support murdering unborn children. That isn't even a commonplace sin. That isn't a simple error in judgement that you accidentally stumble into, or an honest mistake you happen to make. That is so obviously evil just on the face of it that the idea is staggering and fills my heart with horror. There's no excuse. If you can't even recognize the evil in it, then you're utterly lost. You're of a reprobate mind. God has given you over and abandoned you. Yes, you're unspeakably evil, and I know everything about your personality that I need to. Someone, Christian or not, who fornicates, or lies, or steals, or drinks too much, I'd gladly break bread with him, maybe not fellowship with him, but I could at least look him in the eye as a man. But seeking the murder of the unborn, wanting to cut babies into pieces still in their mothers wombs? I wouldn't even shake your hand. There's a special place in Hell waiting for people who hurt children. It makes my skin crawl knowing that I'm communicating with someone like you, and I thank God for this screen seperating us. I'd honestly want to vomit if I ever met you in person and would have to excuse myself from your presence.

Really? It isn't adequately proven that a zygote isn't a person? How's that work when zygotes are basically non-sentient/sapient?

It isn't adequately proven that abortions aren't chemically induced miscarriages early on? Really? Because you're wrong about that, as most people in the medical profession will tell you.

Murder isn't a legal term now? The entire fucking legal profession will laugh in your moralizing assclown face.

The only compelling reasons to make killing zygotes a crime has to do with your particular religious opinions. Since this is a secular republic, those aren't compelling reasons either.

Whenever you are just a shitposter or you truly mean what you say, I'm genuinely impressed.
Your post read like scriptures or scripts that were uttered by some zealous monk from times medieval.
You certainly have way with words when speaking of horrors and sins, that's to be sure.

This post has to be a troll of some kind. Nobody can be this much of a tedious christfag retard on Veeky Forums. In the unlikely event that it isn't, I want all the people who bitch about obnoxious internet atheists to take a good long look at what you've helped to bring about. When you make christfags welcome on your board, you get idiots like this.

>It isn't adequately proven that a zygote isn't a person?
Present proofs pls.

Not completely. Babies have a sense of self and consciousness.

>>literally is not sentient/sapient yet
>>person
I really don't get how this needs to be proved beyond this simple point.

Not that guy but you don't have to be a christfag to understand that murdering children is bad.

>>zygotes
>>children
Does not compute.

>ITT Protestants
Neoliberals