Vegan diets don't have enough prote

Utterly PATHETIC that you believe this drivel. Cooking some fresh fish in garlic outdoes your "supplement based" nutrition many times over. My ancestors have been eating all sorts of meat for the past thousands of years.

LOOK OUT IT'S CANDLEJA-

Wrong. Bodybuilders require massive amounts of protein to compete.

Fish contains just as much cholesterol per pound as red meat, and your ancestors died in their 40s.

Enjoy your whey sugar bars you dolt

that's not how it works you candle faggot

you did the meme wrong but kek

Incorrect my grandpa died at 100
try again veggienigger

False, they do not. Steroids and other PEDs are what make competitive bodybuilders look the way they do.

You've been sold the idea that milk based protein powders and meal replacements will get you there, because those are easier to sell to large markets than PEDs.

>thousands
>hundred

Following a whole food plant based diet is good for brain health as well.

Name 1 (ONE) professional vegan bodybuilder

*one that was vegan from the start. Not someone who consumed animal products then turned vegan a week before competition

Stop with this BS. Vegan diets are not better than omnivores diet. Get the fuck out of fit, no one wants you here. Hell, no one wants vegan anywhere. You are annoying as hell and should all be slaughtered in a big state farm, and force fed the meat of your "fellow vegans", you are worst than cattle and you deserve to be treated as such. You are fucking animals, and the worst of our species.

carl lewis wasnt a bodybuilder but pretty swole olympian

Do all vegans lack reading comprehension?

>IF HE'S BIGGER THAN ME HE'S ON GEAR
*sips milk*
I get most all of my protein without whey
Incorrect einstein and stephen hawking ate/eat meat
*reads book*
I'm smarter than you, kid.

>Your healthcare costs

Oh dear

...

All professional bodybuilders take PEDs, which has nothing to do with their being 'bigger' than me. Most pro athletes of all types, even golfers, take PEDs. That you don't accept that means you've swallowed a load of marketing wank.

Also, Tesla followed a whole food plant based diet.

...

if i blew on his neck would he die?

The ingredients seem dope

This is simply fact.

This isn't to say that eating meat is inherently bad for your health, only that eating meat as it is currently available is. Pollution spread throughout the environment bioaccumulates in animals, and you ingest it when you eat products made from them. Modern animal farming makes use of a dizzying array of chemicals to do its things. You eat those when you eat animal products.

Nice broscience
No sweeite you're really just a conspiracy theorist

sorry sweetie i only eat chicken and beef that I raise myself on my farm

check mate vegan fag

You don't believe in bioaccumulation? That modern animal farm use the bulk of antibiotics produced in the US?

Did you know those trails in the sky are dropping poison on the general population, and that all public leaders are lizard people? Vegans could all give olympians a run for their medals with these mental gymnastics.

Ok so no you don't.

What are your thoughts on gravity?

Whole wheat and beans are 18% protein. 3000 cals x .18 = 150 g protein. Oats, wheat, beans, bakers yeast in bulk. soy powder. Sounds gross and tough but doable and cheap.

I studied biology for three years before I dropped out. Bioaccumulation mostly applies to heavy metals like lead and mercury. Eating the meat of an animal that was given antibiotics doesn't mean you're ingesting antibiotics. Ever notice how when you're put on antibiotics, you feel weird? You don't digest your food properly because all the bacteria in your system is being killed? Now, do you get that feeling when you eat meat?

OP I'm thinking about going vegan after watching "What the Health", the documentary. Still not sure how it would be possible to bulk up and get all of your macros, proteins, etc.

I'm currently starting to research into it. Do you have some good sources?

you know he consumed animal products, bot jacked, then became vegan right?

i saw that there is some kind of wheat based protein product but the AA score (protein completeness) was very low compared to animal based (and some plant based) ones.

Idiot

youtu.be/skIGCoopR-g

i just got stomach sick, i want to die and i feel like shit.

And yet i cant stop thinking how fucking awful must it be to get sick like this and be vegetarian, you could probably actually die.

wrong. It's 16g of protein per cookie, which are like 300-400 cal each.

Believe me I would love to find out that the documentary was all bullshit, but the video you posted is crap, he gives no evidence, no sources...

>Anons save me from going vegan please

>not killing two birds with one stone by getting those slaughter gains and some tasty fresh, still nutrient packed meat

Jelly

Legumes are 25% protein and cheap af
Post body
There are few vegan bodybuilders because there are few vegans
Your ancestors didn't vaccinate, use computers and phones, or drive cars either
Which you can get in a vegan diet. It's inconvenient, but doable. Is your goal to be just a shredded dude or do you literally want to be Phil Heath?
>My grandpa smoked 4 packs a day and died at 100, but my uncle didn't smoke once in his life and died at 45. That must mean smoking is healthy, right?
1) name ONE (1) regular human, vegan from birth. That's right, there are too few. That doesn't have anything to do with veganism being unsuitable for bodybuilding, it just means their parents fed them animal products. As soon as they knew better, they switched.
2) JEHINA MALIK.
He was a false flagging meat eater, not a vegan. Real vegans would never say a wfpb diet with plenty of legumes, rice, oats, pb and pasta is expensive.
Also most of us aren't really arguing that veganism is healthier, we are saying it's not unhealthier.
You're still killing and eating someONE.
Let's add that by shifting consumption towards legumes and limiting our wheat product consumption to mostly seitan can give even more protein with 2000 kcal, say if you're cutting

>Legumes are 25% protein and cheap af
And you'll need to eat nothing but if you need your macros to be ≥25% protein.

For every vegan dumbass there are 23 gymcels willingly taking the bait. Just don't repeat to shitty vegan threads.

Actually, less. Legumes are 25% by weight, not by calories. 100 g beans is about 25 g protein for about 330 kcal, so calorie wise legumes are about 30%
Also you can eat tofu, tempeh and seitan which have way higher % protein
Also, you don't really need more than 150g protein if you're normal sized by Veeky Forums standards
Also you should be eating legumes for the majority of your calories anyway, stuff like peas and chickpeas are full of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and all the good shit you want

...

Topkek

PCBs, dioxins, DDT etc all bioaccumulate eh.

It applies to mercury in the form of methylmercury. Google "persistant organic pollutant"

wkbw.com/news/national/vegan-diet-leads-to-infants-death-parents-convicted

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/11/italian-baby-fed-vegan-diet-hospitalized-for-malnutrition/

parenting.com/blogs/show-and-tell/lauren-parentingcom/vegan-nursing-moms-baby-dies-malnutrition

Here are a few people vegan from birth dude

There are plenty of vegan from birth babies, toddlers and kiddos with weekly blogs in YouTube. Unnatural vegan, vegan geezer, vegan mom etc.

Vegan diets don't have enough prot-

I've never read about meat-eating couples who starved their kids.

Because non-sensationalist "news" don't get clicks, especially if they don't reaffirm the reader's belief. Come on man, that's marketing 101.

The first one is just the parents being retarded and feeding their child a fad diet, this has absolutely nothing to do with veganism.

veganism is incredibly dangerous for a baby.

let adults do whatever the fuck they want, but don't force it one children

>Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life-cycle including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12826028

>No fully proven advantages over meat-eating
>Plenty of downsides
>Emotional side is based off extending compassion, a human emotion, to non-human beings
>oh but let's stop at animals that's where we'll draw the line

Have there ever been bigger cucks than vegans?

>18g per serving
Or I could just eat an egg for maybe 1/10 of the money

>No fully proven advantages over meat-eating
Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true
>Plenty of downsides
Name ONE (1)
>Emotional side is based off extending compassion, a human emotion, to non-human beings
You're conflating ethics with emotion. Ethics can be based off logic. Name the trait present in humans and absent in animals that justifies killing animals for food, that if true of a certain human would justify killing them for food, without appealing to emotion.
Meat eaters are the ones using emotion to justify killing animals, not vegans. "It tastes good (it makes me feel happy and wholesome emotions in my tummy) so it's ok for me to kill.
Name ONE reason to eat meat that ISN'T an appeal to nature, tradition, emotion or habit
>oh but let's stop at animals that's where we'll draw the line
We draw the line at sentience. What makes someTHING ok to eat but someONE not ok to eat is sentience.
If it feels it exists, has a brain and a cns and/or can subjectively experience reality (including feeling pain), don't eat it. Just eat something else.

>Just because you say it doesn't mean it's true
The same goes. Just because you say it isn't true doesn't mean it isn't.
>Name ONE (1)
Vitamin deficiencies. You might turn around and go "oh but if you eat these specific fortified foods it's fine" but the fact is that the majority of people eating a traditional meat-based diet will not suffer from vitamin deficiencies due to the makeup of the foods contained. Meat and animal products are incredibly rich in a variety of nutrients our bodies require, and a vegan diet requires special attention paid in order to ensure no deficiencies occur. This gives a tremendous downside to those living in poorer conditions who may not be able to afford the wide variety of foods needed to cover all the nutrients require when partaking in a vegan diet.
>Name the trait present in humans and absent in animals that justifies killing animals for food, that if true of a certain human would justify killing them for food, without appealing to emotion.
Name the trait present in humans and absent in animals that would justify ignoring the natural evolution of a species in favour of a contrived diet, without appealing to emotion.
>Name ONE reason to eat meat that ISN'T an appeal to nature, tradition, emotion or habit
These questions are just pigeon-holing. Any answer given could be rebutted by stating I ignored your rules, yet the rules themselves are flawed.
>We draw the line at sentience
"Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively"
Paying attention to the usage of the term 'subjectively'. Just because a dog or pig can give us auditory or visual cues of a perceived sentience doesn't mean that a plant isn't also experiencing sentience, but without the capability to communicate as such. It's been proven that some species of animals do not feel pain the same way that humans feel pain, and if we are to extend the line to cover a studied imitation of human pain why do we then stop there?

On a tangent, we're clearly at a point where most vegans will reason that if it has the possibility of being sentient, then we shouldn't kill it. We consider a cluster of cells human because it has the possibility to become in the future, yet we will happily kill that when we know for sure it will experience human reality. I don't understand how at any point people who are vegan could support any form of abortion. The two are exactly the same.

>Meat eaters are the ones using emotion to justify killing animals, not vegans
There's no need to justify killing animals. Do you justify stepping on an ant? Something must be unjust for there to be a need to justify it.

>No fully proven advantages over meat-eating
Less likely to get food borne illnesses
Generally cheaper
No bioamplification of toxic chemicals and elements such as pesticides and mercury
Lower risk of heart disease
Lower risk of diabetes
You can eat a larger volume of food because plant foods tend to be less calorie dense
>Plenty of downsides
???
>Emotional side is based off extending compassion, a human emotion, to non-human beings
No, it's called being morally consistent. The vast majority of human "omnivores" aren't morally consistent, that's why many of them cringe when they hear about the animal abuse in slaughterhouses.
>oh but let's stop at animals that's where we'll draw the line
Appeal to futility, not an argument.

But muh incomplete protein .
>they can never name the "missing" aminos

Not the guy you're responding to, but

>the majority of people eating a traditional meat-based diet will not suffer from vitamin deficiencies due to the makeup of the foods contained.
This is just plain wrong. A simple google search reveals that 1 in 10 Americans is deficient in vitamin B6, for example.
cdc.gov/nutritionreport/pdf/4page_ 2nd nutrition report_508_032912.pdf
>Meat and animal products are incredibly rich in a variety of nutrients our bodies require
Like trans-fats, cholesterol and saturated fat, right? Nevermind the fact that cardiovascular disease is the leading killer in western nations.
>This gives a tremendous downside to those living in poorer conditions who may not be able to afford the wide variety of foods needed to cover all the nutrients require when partaking in a vegan diet.
2 pounds of red lentils is about as expensive as a single pack of cheap meat here, except the lentils will feed me for 9 days and the pack of meat will only feed me one day. Once again you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

And you really don't need to eat that varied to meet all your micronutrients every day on a vegan diet.
>Name the trait present in humans and absent in animals that would justify ignoring the natural evolution of a species in favour of a contrived diet, without appealing to emotion.
Humans are more intelligent than animals for one, and because we're more intelligent than animals we should be able to recognize that animals are capable of perceiving pain and that it is wrong to cause harm to an animal based on this.

>I don't understand how at any point people who are vegan could support any form of abortion.
I don't support abortion, what now?

Or because feeding an average meat-based diet to a baby isn't a recipe for death like a vegan diet.

You hear about kids who die from neglect, kids who die from tainted food, etc. But 'eating a meat-inclusive' diet isn't a cause of death.

>Just because you say it isn't true doesn't mean it isn't.
Cholesterol, saturated fats, heart disease. Either you know it's true or you believe it isn't.
>Vitamin deficiencies
Name one. The only one I can think of that needs very specific planning to reach 100% RDA is choline which is not exactly a vitamin. Not vitamin A, not vitamin E, not B12, nothing. All these are extremely easy to get (yes, even B12).
> a traditional meat-based diet will not suffer from vitamin deficiencies
I wonder. If I post a population study that says not only vegans are B12 deficient, like "Almost 40% of the U.S. population is deficient in vitamin B12 according to a recent study from Tufts University in Boston and a vast majority of them are completely unaware. They found 39 percent with plasma B12 levels in the "low normal" range - below 258 picomoles per liter (pmol/L).", He will claim that they weren't watching what they are. Could it be that you need to watch your diet regardless of whether you're vegan or not? Or is the study implying that 2 out of 5 Americans are vegan? :thinking:
>those living in poorer conditions
1) They should prioritize not making more children and digging themselves out of the financial shitholes they live in before worrying about animal rights, I agree
2) rice and legumes are the cheapest foods available in the vast majority of the world and they just happen to be vegan
>the wide variety of foods needed to cover all the nutrients require when partaking in a vegan diet
Just for fun, try adding just peas and soymilk in cronometer (low variety) in adequate amounts to cover your calories and tell me how many nutrients you miss. Hint: almost none
1/2

So theres a picture of processed packaged bars of some type of food origin? What's fresh about that?

>Name the trait present in humans and absent in animals that would justify ignoring the natural evolution of a species in favour of a contrived diet, without appealing to emotion.
1) you are implying natural selection is relevant, for our species, in the current year. It isn't. We needed cooked meat because it was a calorie dense source of energy and nutrients. That is a non-issue when you have grocery stores with literally everything
2) you are appealing to nature, that's another fallacy
3) you dodged my question because you were backed into an inescapable corner, so now you move the goalposts because you are TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY to admit that the ONLY reason you eat meat is that you like the taste. That makes you dishonest and a coward.
>These questions are just pigeon-holing. Any answer given could be rebutted by stating I ignored your rules, yet the rules themselves are flawed.
Let me rephrase it, PUSSY, because you are TOO DUMB to understand.BName a nutrient that is INHERENTLY lacking in a vegan diet.
> Just because a dog or pig can give us auditory or visual cues of a perceived sentience
So you're admitting animals are sentient.
>doesn't mean that a plant isn't also experiencing sentience, but without the capability to communicate as such
No brain, no CNS. We are our brain piloting a flesh factory. If I chop off your arm (disconnect it from the brain) it won't feel anything. Plants are not sentient. It's like saying rocks are sentient.
>But they react to external stimuli
Bear traps react to stimuli, are they sentient?

Also, even if FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT admit that plants do feel pain (which they DON'T, but we'll PRETEND they do), raising an animal to kill requires the death of many more plants (be it soy, grain or grass) because of the poor feed:flesh conversion ratio

He's right though. Stop responding to bait.

And add 187mg of cholesterol and 1.6g of saturated fat
>just fuck my arteries up senpai
and get really no other nutrients except some B12. Just protein, fat, and cholesterol, and some toxins if you are eating commercial eggs.

> vegans breastfeeding a baby

pls pls pls tell me nobody does this

Sure it is.

nytimes.com/2010/02/11/health/11fat.html

I'm merely making the proposal that if a person wants to follow a whole food plant based die but it yoked with the belief that a 'large' amount of protein is needed, it can be had similar to any other supplement.

>Name a nutrient that is INHERENTLY lacking in a vegan diet.
B12
>lolno they got B12 fortified yeast now
Yeah like it came out yesterday from 1 company

>you are implying natural selection is relevant, for our species, in the current year. It isn't.
pretty sure the romans said exactly the same thing a few years before the fall of Rome.

Breastfeeding, like blowjobs, is performed consentingly and causes no harm to anyone, so it's vegan
You're reaching, hard and ignoring the 99% of my post that completely wafflestomps you.
Also you don't know what inherently means
Also you're lying, fortified plant milks, fortified cereals, nooch (vegan "cheese" flakes) and supplements are vegan and widely available.

THERE IS LITERALLY NO ARGUMENT AGAINST VEGANISM
ADMIT DEFEAT

>jewnny and jewrry cookies

>what is Vegemite?

a vegan diet is not natural, what do you do when the megacorps and industry supporting your life style drops dead, do you submit to meat or do you just continue to lead an unhealthy life style with the lack of supplements?

>a vegan diet is not natural
Eating rice, potatoes, chicpleas and brans is perfectly natural
Hanging sentient beings upside down to kill them by the billion (as opposed to hunting) is unnatural
Also
Vaccines, cars, phones, computers etc aren't natural
Cobra poison, shark teeth, lion claws and tornadoes are natural
>what do you do when the megacorps and industry supporting your life style drops dead
Why would they drop dead, veganism is stronger than ever
trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=dairy,steak,cheese,vegan,bacon
Veganism is rising faster than anything else

Alright, back from gym. Going one post at a time.

>Less likely to get food borne illnesses
Vegans are more likely to be conscious of their diet than non-vegans. Less of the population are vegan.
>Generally cheaper
Subjective.
>No bioamplification of toxic chemicals and elements such as pesticides and mercury
I don't have a comprehensive understanding on the subject, but mercury poisoning is primarily an issue in areas that are heavily reliant on fishing. I would disagree that mercury poising is a meat eating issue in general. I think it is more of a dietary issue. The same way eating too much soy can have adverse effects, or eating a diet that doesn't cover your nutritional bases would be negative for health reasons. It is also my understanding that pesticides are prevalent in fruits and vegetables.
>Lower risk of heart disease
>Lower risk of diabetes
Explained through vegans typically being more conscious of their diets. Overconsumption of red meat is the issue with heart disease in meat eaters. People forget that your diet shouldn't mainly consist of meat. They also forget to stop eating so fucking much.
>eat more
Preference.

>Downsides
As stated, nutrient issues are prevalent. Calcium, omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin B-12 and folate are the primary ones. Yes, there are ways around this. No, it is not convenient or cheap in a lot of areas. Subjective, but my vegan friend has to travel 30km into the city to go to a health shop that supplies the foods and vitamins she needs to cover her B-12 deficiency.

>No, it's called being morally consistent
How is stopping your definition at animals morally consistent? Unless I'm confused, the idea is to preserve conscious life. Where do we draw the line of consciousness? I don't understand how you can pick and choose. Either your own species are superior life forms or nothing is. Saying humans and animals are superior and need to be protected but other life forms are fair game is not consistent.

One box of B12 is like 5 bucks and lasts 2 years. The nutrient "arguments" are only relevant for people who aren't even aware of them.

>This is just plain wrong
Given. However, a simple google search will also reveal pages upon pages of how-to guides for vegans suffering from vitamin deficiency. In addition, vegans are more likely to be diet conscious and therefore take the steps to ensure they get the vitamins they need. We're fighting a losing battle with obesity in every 1st world country. Getting the majority of the population to become diet conscious is not going to happen. The majority of the population eats meat. It is not the diet that is at fault, it is the apathy and lack of nutritional knowledge in the general population. A balanced meat eating diet will cover, without added supplements, every nutritional need of the human body.
>Like trans-fats, cholesterol and saturated fat
Moderation is key, and those three you mentioned all have benefits when consumed in proportion.
>cardio disease
Once again, uneducated fat cunt masses shovelling mcdonalds down their gullets. I guarantee that if everyone was vegan the same shit would happen.
>2 pounds of red lentils...
My local shopping market doesn't stock cheap lentils. I've looked. I found one 500g can that was $4.50. Instead, for the same price, I bought two chicken breasts that fed me for 4 meals. Subjective.

>Humans are more intelligent than animals for one, and because we're more intelligent than animals we should be able to recognize that animals are capable of perceiving pain and that it is wrong to cause harm to an animal based on this.
And yet the entirety of human history is covered end to end in bloodshed and war. We are not capable as a species of giving up an advantage for nought but the misguided morals of a new generation. I fully agree that animal torture shouldn't be the mainstream practice, yet we have ways of buying meat that has been responsibly killed, without unnecessary pain and suffering.

>I don't support abortion, what now?
There's a reason that was another post, nothing but an idle tangent.

Trans fats are inherently and only bad.

>Cholesterol, saturated fats, heart disease.
>Vitamin deficiencies
> a traditional meat-based diet will not suffer from vitamin deficiencies
Answered these.

>1) They should prioritize not making more children and digging themselves out of the financial shitholes they live in before worrying about animal rights, I agree
I would say it's our responsibility to worry about humans in poverty and suffering before animals.
>2) rice and legumes are the cheapest foods available in the vast majority of the world and they just happen to be vegan
You also cannot sustain a healthy diet off purely rice and legumes. Vegetables and plants should make up a large part of your diet as a meat eater. Humans have evolved to eat primarily plants, with meat as supplementation. Most people forget this and eat themselves into heart failure. This is wrong.

>soymilk
Not a chance. Soy consumption is something I try and avoid for the negative health effects.

articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/04/26/natural-trans-fats-actually-have-health-benefits.aspx
Literally the first thing on google.

Do most active "athletes" even micromanage their nutrients? I'm pretty sure most just make sure they get enough protein and fiber from what they assume to be healthful food sources, take a multivitamin, and hope for the best. The bickering should be around price and what is more likely to give you chronic illness.

I mean it's an article about a study, which isn't linked, done on rats against literally the entire scientific consensus. Even keto and paleo supporters say trans fats are shit. Trans fats reducing total+LDL cholesterol and triglycerides? Yeah sure.

Just because you can find one fool that agrees with you, that doesn't magically turn it into the truth.

>Soy consumption is something I try and avoid for the negative health effects.
What negative effects?

>1)
That's very privileged of you to say that. Not the entirety of the human population has easy access to what constitutes a healthy vegan diet. We still have a lot of humans who are starving, for whom cooked meat as a calorie dense source of energy and nutrients would be highly beneficial.
>2)
You are only considering your own situation. Broaden your horizons.
>3)
I do like the taste. I don't see how I'm moving the goalposts, because you set up a list of arbitrary bullshit to try and force me into answering a loaded question.
>Let me rephrase it, PUSSY, because you are TOO DUMB to understand.BName a nutrient that is INHERENTLY lacking in a vegan diet.
I've answered this, and you're resorting to ad hominem and name calling in favour of an argument. If you're so keen to point out my apparent fallacies, why don't you focus on removing them from your own argument first?
>So you're admitting animals are sentient.
Well if you want to remove the word 'perceived' from my sentence you could change the meaning to suit your needs, sure.
>No brain, no CNS
If that's what we're using as the definition for sentience then I suppose all vegans can start eating mussels, right?

Nobody brought up the plants feeling pain idea. We simply know that, as with animals who are more closely related to humans and thus better understood, they react to external stimuli including what would potentially cause pain.

>still unironicly belives in cholesterol meme
>gives lectures about healthy food

lmao