Benzo withdrawal

I'm not back to normal at all. I feel like I am a lot dumber and mentally slower now. Its like I lost 5-10 IQ points.

Yes, but opiate sensitivity seems to go back to normal with our without naltrexone after a few months right? Meaning naltrexone only hastens the process but makes it a bit more unbearable. For me? I'd take it any day over a slower nicer withdrawal but that's just me.

That's why flumazenil is relevant: the GABA up-regulation seems to in many cases NEVER go back to normal, or at least not until several years after withdrawal. This means that worst case scenario is I CAN'T wait it out without treatment. I would simply stay retarded forever and then just end my misery say 8 years from now after spending every day doing jack shit because of that weird nagging GABA upregulation causing indecision.

Sadly, in doctor culture, opiate withdrawal leads to OD and loads of deaths. Benzo withdrawal leads to mild retardation and seemingly unrelated suicides. So the former is 'worth the risk' (LIVES ARE AT STAKE!) but the second is 'not our responsibility' (it's not up to us if you KYS 8 years down the life cause you became pathetic). So in other countries, people are successfully treated with flumazenil, but here? It's illegal cause it just doesn't have the same drama level of opiate withdrawal.

Idk, I think I'm dead long term if I don't break the law here and order that nasal spray illegally and do the treatment myself.

Damn, same here. I used to be the best at verbal intelligence. As in straight As all the way every course. Now I got aphasia, struggle to maintain conversations. Often have to repeat things. It all makes sense and it seems like it can all be treated with flumazenil but yeah it sucks.

Be att få theralendroppar utskrivna ASAP och ta .75-1ml per kväll medan du trappar ned. Z-drogerna har en jobbig utsättning men inte i närheten lika helvetisk som "riktig benzo", däremot kommer du må piss länge. Har haft allt från zopiclone till rohypnol utskrivet och jag rekommenderar ändå theralendropparna STARKT, åtminstone medan du sätter ut z-drogerna.

Hett tips är för övrigt att när du väl blivit kvitt dom så förnya aldrig receptet - en dålig kväll blir till 1-1.5 veckas galenskap och typ ett år av suicidrisk efteråt.

Theralen håller mig sövd och seg i flera dagar tyvärr. Kan bara skita i pillren och inte sova så bra, har gjort det i flera månader i perioder utan vidare komplikationer där. Zopiklon är inte lika stark som zolpidem men verkar längre så har inte riktigt koll på hur de jämför i utsättning. Har tagit riktig benzo lite då och då, även alkohol så GABA-uppregleringen är rätt saftig.

Problemet är inte sömnen alls egentligen. Att må dåligt och vara deprimerad bryr jag mig inte heller om alls i princip, jag kan sova tre timmar och tänka på döden, so what? Är extremt envis så om jag bestämmer mig så kan jag sluta. Problemet är de sekundära bieffekterna som verkar vara mer eller mindre permanenta, främst att jag inte kan koncentrera mig (väldigt allvarligt), att jag blir för nervös i vardagliga situationer (extremt allvarligt) och symptomet "indecision", alltså oförmågan att initiera avsiktliga processer (dödsstöten över allt annat). Om jag fortsätter att inte kunna initiera normala handlingar utan stor möda (typ handla, ringa samtal, boka tider osv), vilket jag inte kan sen jag slutat med z-droger (men kan väldigt väl när jag tar dem medans jag är 'hög'), så är jag helt enkelt död om ett par år. Att vilja dö då är rimligt så det är ett icke-problem.

Slow discontinuation protocol. Flumazenil is good for overdose, but won't help with withdrawal symptoms. And it's risk/benefit ratio is somewhat questionable. Thing is if you use heroine you always have methadone, but if you use GABA PAM in terms of psychopharmacology you have nothing. So slow discontinuation lets you: 1) control acute withdrawal symptoms and by doing so minimize the risk of relapse; 2) constantly reduce and then discontinue GABA PAM.
Rapid discontinuation will leave you with insomnia in best case scenario amd acute panic level anxiety and psychosis in worst. Eventually you will return to benzos simply because you will wan't your normal life back.

Oh and the majority of benzo addicted will get back to normal functioning in 6 month period. Only about 10-15 % will have protracted withdrawal syndrome (simply withdrawal symptoms that persist for longer period). Some minor studies suggest benefit for SOME not all symptoms of protracted withdrawal syndrome.

the withdrawl is pretty tough off benzos. Personally i had vivid dreams about benzos while coming off them (also on other stuff for """sleep""")
Once you make it past day 3 you will feel a lot better.
Once you make it past a month you will feel pretty close to normal.
The hardest part is trying to sleep, if you can get yourself to sleep without other drugs you will be golden. If you have a history of seizures try and get prescribed some anti seizure medication (non narcotic) it should be pretty easy to get.

Don't care about acute withdrawal. I'm not the type of person to flip out and go back on benzos. I can quit any time I want, and I nearly have at this point, with the worst side at this point being being a bit sleepy at work for a few weeks due to bad sleep. I do not get emotional.

After two months, the prevailing and extremely debilitating symptoms, that I did not have before hopping on the benzo train, were:
>indecision (by far the most severe. On drugs: can plan and execute any daily task like shopping, cooking, trying new things, booking things, etc. Off drugs, I do not manage to do anything novel and even going to buy groceries is a challenging decision to make)
>disproportionate exitation vs. stimulus
>severe concentration difficulties
>aphasia
>general discomfort, looking like a beta in body language
Depressed? No. Psychotic? No. Hard time sleeping? At first but ends quickly. But these symptoms were and are so extremely noticeable and potently disruptive that they will result in me, several years from now, ending my life rationally and calmly because I get sick of being a verbally retarded shut in. It seems like either these parts of GABA PAM do not begin to cease until over two months of no benzos, or perhaps more accurately up-regulation will more or less never cease, unless artificially treated with flumazenil for an extended period of time, as is standard in some countries for these types of issues. Apparently.

Yeah it's rough but I got good self control so that's no issue for me. The issue is the brain fog/indecision that is ruining my life long term that doesn't really seem to go away after any time period. I don't really need drugs to handle the emotional roller coaster, I can take it. I just need to fix this aphasia (sound like a stuttering retard, used to get all straight As on verbal courses before benzos), and indecision (can't initiate things/make choices off drugs but can no problem on drugs). So it's not tempting me to abuse or anything it's just ruining my life no matter how long I stay off.

The Z-drugs are not benzodiazapines

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GABAA_receptor_positive_allosteric_modulator

In psychopharmacology, GABAA receptor PAMs used as drugs have mainly sedative and anxiolytic effects. Examples of GABAA PAMs include alcohol (ethanol), benzodiazepines such as diazepam (Valium) and alprazolam (Xanax), Z-drugs such as zolpidem (Ambien) and the barbiturate drugs.

OP, try prehaps L-thenanine?

Come back when you've done more than gone on wikipedia. The alpha binding sites for benzodiazepines and z-drugs vary greatly. The z-drugs should have very minimal, if any, withdrawal effects. Flumazenil would only put you at a greater risk for seizure.

>Xanax
If I took a bar every once and a while for 2 years (20-25 over the whole course) what's the likelihood that I've done significant permanent damage to my brain?

Depends on the person senpai, xans are a nono drug and very addicting.

I don't care about the addiction part. It was always me just doing a few bars on a weekend once every few months, so I never took them consistently. I'm done with them now, but I just wonder if they could have affected me.

Drink matcha tea you say?

Then why is withdrawal treated exactly the same way including with flumazenil and long half life benzos? Zolpidem is generally used only as a sleep aid due to short half life and serious side effects with daytime use. Otherwise it does have similar effects to benzos. Also I did drink quite a lot and took some benzos at the 'peak' of use. Also no family history of seizures at all, and treatement to reduce persistent symptoms is usually done AFTER acute withdrawal with flumazenil. If you did a therapeutic regulation at peak withdrawal for several days then yes, there's a very high risk of seizures but no, that is not relevant if you do the treatment say two months after complete abstinence.

20-25 pills over the span of 2 year is literally nothing. Did you feel any different, i highly doubt.

idk what matcha tea is, but i heard L-thenanine calms you down but not in a fatique kind of way. It helps you with your anxiety and makes you sleep better.

Avoid benzos and hypnotics like the fucking plague.

I was on Klonopin for almost 10 years with my highest dose being 6 mg a day. My weight spiraled out of control because I was ALWAYS hungry - the cravings were intense. Also became zombified and had slight ED thanks to all of the sedative effects. Would sleep soundly for nearly 10 hours a night with no problem.

Finally I weaned myself off of them after stockpiling a large amount and stopped going to my doctor. The withdrawal nearly killed me. Flu like symptoms on and off for nearly 2 months, extreme anxiety and depression, suicidal thoughts, bad muscle aches, no appetite, racing thoughts, mild seizures that would pass in a few minutes and some others. I nearly didn't make it as I was close to crashing my car into a tree at one point.

I'm glad I was able to break free of it all - but I wish I had done it sooner. I'm back in school and I can actually stay awake through an entire lecture without being close to nodding off every time. Energy levels are through the roof now and I look and feel better than I did when I was younger (28 now). Some slight remaining side effects like a twitch in my right eye and trouble sleeping persist but nothing too bad.

These drugs are the fucking devil. You pretty much have to stay on them once you've been on for longer than a few months. Good luck if you decide to try them.

I'd say close to 0 but I'm no expert. GABA PAM requires frequent and continuous use. Like taking a pill every night. It's more likely that you did damage if you took one a day for 10 days (not sure what strength but ok) than if you took one a month ending up with 100 total pills. Also the 'damage' (not an accurate term but ok) diminishes over time but for some people some up-regulation does not diminish sufficiently without artificially extending the withdrawal with flumazenil.

you're in for some trouble, at least it isn't valium or some crazy long acting one... i'd reduce by 25% every other day,

you aren't taking them through the day so you should just have a disrupted sleeping pattern, you're pretty much safe from any seizures and any super dangerous stuff...

ask you doctor for like 50mg of vallium to use for the next few nights to ease you down

What are some good alternatives for benzos? i was using oxazepam for 2 weeks on and off, mainly doctor gave it when i got really panicy. But decided to not to go on it.

i really don't want to get on benzos even though i felt good using the medicine, i heard L-thenanine is a good stress/anxiety reducing thing.

Matcha is a type of tea brewing style popular in japan (green powder, tastes a bit like nori like anything else crafted by japs) that grinds up the whole tea leaf thus preserving all the L-thenanine instead of boiling the leaves and discarding them like other tea types. It is not properly documented that L-thenanine would have any measurable effects without the caffeine found in the leaves though which regulates adenosine. Idk I guess I will try it. I like matcha so why not switch out the daily coffee.

I know that now. Didn't get any info when I started taking the pills as prescribed years ago by shitty doctors. The acute withdrawals are nasty but you can take it if you remind yourself of the end goal. The issue I'm having is that some effects don't really seem to ever go away. I wouldn't say ONE dose is a disaster, it's the continuous low and responsible dosage that fucked me up without my knowledge.

I know, the short term withdrawal is fine. I'm already practically off them. First few days I had severe twitches, had to move all the time, restless legs all day all of the body. What I'm worried about is mental indecision lasting forever even after I'm fully off.

CBT and some good old anti-histamines if your main issue is just nervous breakdowns. I took the drugs for different reasons, since I have a shitty sleep cycle (my sleep cycle is like 30 hours vs the normal 24). Personally I haven't found a single anti-histamine that doesn't stay in the system for too long but there's virtually 0 tolerance and 0 withdrawal so that's nice I guess. If you don't have withdrawal issues then I really urge you to just do CBT and really just getting a gym routine going. Helped my sister a lot.

>I've been taking zolpidem sleepers for years almost every night because it's practical.
kys junkie

what's ''CBT'' and i just have really bad anxiety through out the day. Most of the times it doens't have any reason for it happening.

Cognitive behavioral therapy. It's like psychology but scientifically based. Essentially practice methods empirically verified to reduce anxiety.

Darling I can quit whenever I want to. I already have but I tapered down so I'm on 2.5mg a night. It's just that when I started the doctors deliberately withheld info. This was several years ago and I was young and trusted doctors. I even informed my doc on a regular basis exactly how much I took on average.

PAWS is a motherfucker
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

I'm 3 years off them and I needed AA and NA to get through all the horrific symptoms. I almost went deaf too which was horrific.

You fucked up, and you will fuck it up even worse by self-medicating.

Go to a doctor. They're going to help, not blame you. Vi har faktiskt hyfsat bra sjukvård fortfarande i Sverige.

Yo can a phenibut addict join this thread?

Anyway, anytime you're having w/d anxiety, just be glad you're not this guy: longecity.org/forum/topic/93497-ive-taken-phenibut-daily-for-5-years-at-doses-of-70g-a-day-heres-my-story/

its hard to calculate the long term effects of these drugs. Many studies show that you will fully recover within 6 months to a year but keep in mind these studies are likely funded through the same pharma companies that want to keep pushing these pills on children.
I can certainly relate on the speech impediments even after being clean for a year but its impossible to discern the drug that caused it. I used to drink heavily, abuse mdma, amphetamines, etc. all while also taking benzos which im sure has some role in how damaged my brain is in the long term.
I wouldnt worry about it too much because there is likely little you can do and constantly thinking about it may actually accentuate the problem because you are "tricking" yourself into believing the problem exists. If you managed to go clean off the drugs then you have already taken the most influential and challenging step towards healing. Keep looking to make advances through self-improvement. fuck the past, you cant change it

Damn, it's so fun and fascinating to read of the struggles of addicts. I haven't done anything heavier than drinking every night a week for a week or two (or weed/acid) and never felt compelled to, so it's really interesting to read all this insider perspective shit.
Tho I'd totally go for some codeine again, that shit had my anxiety fade beautifully for a while.

>go to doctor
>get drugged for years cause lol its totally safe bruh
>go to doctor complain about it
>get banned from any addictive substances forever for false junkie allegations
>get some snarky journal entry about how I'm asking for drugs that are too dangerous for plebeian junkies (that no longer do the drugs and quit voluntarily against the advice of doctors)
>any medical visit ever forever after will see the lines "junkie thinks he has withdrawal which is like totally a lie and thinks he knows more about medicine than us"

Yeah my sister is a doctor doing research I've asked her she says it's a reasonable and fairly short treatment that removes most of the symptoms and is as easy as a nasal spray three times a day for a month and yes you will feel like shit when you take the spray but then it's done. I guess I'll have to go to some other euro country to do that treatment though. Which wont happen. Guess I'll just kill myself when I get sick of the symptoms a few years from now. Cause I can't get a nasal spray.

Did do some drinking and amphetamines also (fairly moderate mostly) so yeah that might be part of it but what suggests it isn't is the fact that the second I get drugged up on benzos all the issues completely disappear (but you know I'm also drugged up so that's no good). It's night and day. Nowadays I struggle to make breakfast because the decision to cook up something is hard to make. Usually ends up with half a meal two hours later. If I'm still high from the z-drugs I cook some healthy feast with all the proper seasoning in 15 minutes and later ask myself how the hell I managed to make all the decisions from googling recipes to all that shit in that little time. And how I ended up going for a jog straight after before booking an appointment and then the last of the drugs wear off. Undrugged just that alone would take a week. Not exaggerating.

I would do it under Doctor's supervision. I almost died from withdrawl, and was in the ICU for 10 days.

Wouldn't even consider myself an addict. I'm clean from now on and never even had an addiction. 0 cravings. The administrative route doesn't really let you associate an action with a reward so there's nothing to crave. I just popped a prescribed pill each night by bedtime cause otherwise I wouldn't sleep. And now I'm going to be retarded for years because I can't get a nasal spray cause I'm in the wrong country.

Yeah I agree but the problem is the treatment is controversial due to the risks (people flipping, killing themselves, returning to drugs, or even having seizures), and thus Sweden does not allow the treatment to be used for this purpose (it's only administered for ODs). Sweden simply doesn't have any allowed treatment. Just wait and if you got long term symptoms then lol wtv xD. It's the gold standard in many other EU countries but idk how to get treatment from another country here.

one thing that has made the largest difference for me is routine. It is challenging at first and some days can be miserable but if you follow your routine instead of letting yourself get dragged into darker thoughts then you will improve. Eventually the days where your routine feels easy outnumber the days where you feel like shit. Then after that you can start adding new things such as apply for a job on to your base routine and it comes relatively easy. Im not sure how this applies to everyone but logically it makes sense.
For example
wake up every day at the same time
make the same breakfast
go to work
get home from work make protein smoothie
go to the gym
make dinner
spend some time on the internet
go to bed
Having this sort of structure improves quality of life

Just pisses me off to no end that I can improvise like I could before all the drugs after eating just half a little pill. It's below the minimum recommended dose. Of course the side effects would make it unsustainable with the amnesia and stuff but the executive function the decision making it's right there in my brain and could be right there every day just as it is for most people. All I need is some down-regulation and a fucking nasal spray that might cause seizures. What difference does it make if it might cause seizures? I will kill myself if this keeps on going not because I'm depressed or anything I just don't feel like it's worth chafing ass with no job no friends no future if I'm 30 and balding. Certain death or maybe some seizures.

What's life worth you know... Idk I should be telling some non-existent doctor this shit. A doctor that doesn't flag you as a junkie and that does treatments not approved in Sweden.

You have to take your treatment into your own hands. I remember reading about a clinic in Europe that uses that benzo antagonist.

You are right that benzo recovery is harder than opiates. But after a lot of opiate use, especially if you are especially prone to using them to feel normal, some folks never really get back to a good baseline. I've been clean for stretches but always go back because of how I feel. The fear and horror of opiate withdrawal meant I never went far with Xanax.

Good luck to you, do whatever you can to get proper treatment. As for me, the hardest part is keeping perspective. The day after a naltrexone dose (I can only handle it a couple times a week) is really shitty. But I do feel benefits.

I forgot to mention I'm working with a lab to synth me naltrexone for a custom formulation, I'll inquire into the benzo antagonist as well. Maybe I can help you out because I sympathize a lot with your situation.

Dude go overseas and get it done, or source the chem online. I'll do my best to get it synthd if it's not too expensive. I.e. If I can afford it. Do you have any savings? A couple grand for the custom synth or a plane ticket plus treatment. Just make a plan and do it.

And stop saying you're gonna kill yourself cuz treatment isn't realistic. I have to travel to America and spend $20k to get my collarbone rebroken and fixed because my socialist country doesn't believe in first world standards of healthcare. My parents told me it's a stupid idea and unrealistic (??) which is about as nonsensical as you giving up because you might have to travel.

Patience young grasshopper. This too shall pass.

You're putting your nasal spray on a pedestal and setting yourself up for failure because you can't get it ("it's not my fault, I just need this nasal spray that is banned in my country boo-hoo"). Just stop taking all drugs, even caffeine. It will suck for a year, maybe even longer, but eventually you WILL feel better. Do things that other anons have been suggesting- routine, balanced diet, exercise, and getting outside, to start. You didn't get in this situation overnight, you can't expect a quick and easy solution.

fucking taper.
Why go through the pain taper down a quarter pill overy 3 days at the exact same time.

Do this till you are down to nothing and then get kratom to take for the first 5-8 days after being completely off.

simple

I was on Benz for 4 years valium, xanax, imovane decided to quit bought enough weed to get me stoned AF for 3weeks locked myself in and just fought through it.

Had no real problem after that just a couple of days of shitty sleep.

Lycka till, gör som jag det funkar.

That's not a realistic taper schedule