Marie Antoinette did nothing wrong and the frenchies are faggots for killing this woman

Marie Antoinette did nothing wrong and the frenchies are faggots for killing this woman

Nah, she deserved it

Why?

Marie Antoinette was a major sweetheart, who happened to be on a sinking ship

>muh let them eat cake

she was just shitposting. Normalfag frenchies are just salty because they cant eat cake

I mean. I love her, but she did make the mistake of thinking she was entitled to act like a private individual despite the enormity of her rank. Queens, especially queens in France, are not private people but symbols of the state. She vastly underestimated the importance of reputation and let her private desires--first for a happy, wild, partying life and then soon after a quiet intimate life with her family, children and friends--override what behavior was expected of a French queen.

She couldn't have prevented the revolution as a whole. But I think that if her reputation had been as sparkling in 1789 as it was in 1770, or even as it was in 1775, perhaps certain events would have gone differently. No October Days? Or at least not a mob of people who were whipped up in hatred against her, leading to a different outcome? No mobs constantly outside the Tuileries, jeering her? Perhaps her and Louis' plan to let the people see the folly in the Constitution would have worked if people saw her as a sincere French consort rather than the Austria she-bitch she had become because of her bad reputation.

I can't blame her for acting the way she did but I wish she had taken her mother's warnings about reputation and perception to heart, rather than thinking the growing pamphlets and public resentment towards her was just the people loving gossip.

She never actually said this.

Antoinette was largely innocent of everything she was accused of, historically. Also Louis XVI was not impotent nor did he have a broke dick. There was a period where they didn't have sex because they literally DID NOT KNOW HOW because no one ever explained to either of them how sex worked. Once someone got 'the talk' they hit it off and loved each other very much.

Marie was hated for being Austrian and the wife of an ineffectual and indecisive king. Neither she nor her husband were particularly out of touch, nor did they spend money excessively. At worst it can be said the counsel she and her brother gave Louis XVI probably led to the collapse of the monarchy because it pulled him in two directions and resulted in the assembly losing faith in the King, setting the country on the road to revolution.

also this

imagine being so innocent you literally could look at your naked wife and not know what to do with your dick

>and loved each other very much.

ayup

>If only they knew what she is worth..

Louis XVI was actually kind of a cinnamon roll. The romance stuff that went between him and Marie once things were 'sorted out' were tooth ache inducing.

He was also admittedly kind of dense/autistic. Dude loved hunting and tinkering in his workshop. /ourguy/ basically.

Death to all monarchs

They achieved penetration and Marie Antoinette considered her marriage consummated--though she knew she wasn't yet pregnant--in 1772 or 1773, I can't recall which exactly, but it was years before "the talk" from her brother. But for various reasons, physical as well as probably psychological, he didn't thrust inside her until he came. The Austrian ambassador to France mused at one point that he though the situation between Louis and Antoinette was similar to that of Louis' father and one of his wives, where she suffered from what we'd today call vaginismus. If she did, it may have been psychological, since she was pregnant almost regularly from 1778 until 1786.

Agreed.

Sorry I didn't finish my thought.

Both she and Louis noted that they experienced pain during sex. However, Louis was checked out again and again and again by physicians who always concluded that his dick was 100% normal, despite the occasional talk of an operation from the Austrian side of things. So the struggle to fully consummate may have been related to Antoinette experiencing pain and Louis not wanting to hurt her, which also falls in line with how he did not attempt to consummate the marriage until 2 years after arrival in France, due to her age and delayed physical development. In 1770 she was 14 but still physically "like a child," according to Louis XV in a response to one of Maria Theresa's concerned letters.

>In 1770 she was 14
GEE I WONDER IF THIS HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH HER DIFFICULTIES TO HAVE AND ENJOY SEX AT THE TIME

WEIRD HOW THAT JUST FIXED ITSELF A FEW YEARS LATER

what about their kid? imagine being locked in a room for years as little guy

It didn't "fix itself" though. From 1772 until 1777 they had years of attempted consummations which progressed inch by inch yet fruitlessly, no pun intended. Joseph II's visit, whatever the whole truth of what was said, resulted in Louis attempting again and this time finishing until Antoinette considered the consummate "truly and fully completed" aka he came inside her.

It wasn't shocking that they didn't consummate right away, Maria Theresa's letters notwithstanding. But it was shocking that their marriage was childless for 8 years and that they were not at least having regular full consummation, especially considering her sister-in-law had 3 children within 3 years of marrying into the French royal family.

>they didn't have sex because they literally DID NOT KNOW HOW
they are really a cute couple. Im jealous

t. republican faggot

THIS
Alexandra Feodorovna did the same mistake

I really feel that the French Revolution just got successful because the monarchs were a bunch of NEETS

He died of "neglect" which is a very sanitary way of saying he was malnourished, sick, and beaten to death and died whimpering for his mother who he thought didn't want to see him (she had been forcibly separated from him)

It was pretty fucking tragic and cruel. Also the Republican Court tried to accused Antoinette of molesting him, this backfired badly however because it turned out half the court were women and Antoinette responded with fury and weeping that the other women responded sympathetically to. Whole thing had to be shut down for a day

t. monarcuck

>I need someone to explain how sex works
Did they not start masturbating at 5 years old like I did? Sex, as least basic penetration is not that complicated to figure out.

do you even know how to use cuck?

As has been said, they got as far as penetration but there were complications that caused pain on Antoinettes end so there was never any 'completion' until years later.

>Antoinette responded with fury and weeping that the other women responded sympathetically to. Whole thing had to be shut down for a day

She at first ignored the accusation, which the Tribunal President was happy to skip over, but a juror piped in and brought up that she hadn't replied to the accusations. Her quote from her trial transcript, which says she rose and gestured with "an animated air" to the spectators:

>If I did not reply it was because nature itself recoils from such an accusation against a mother. I appeal to all mothers who are present here!

>Alexandra Feodorovna did the same mistake

?

He is a republitard, my fellow monarchist.

The whole revolution really did a hard turn towards lunacy by that point. I still maintain it could have been salvaged until Robespierre went mental.

yes. He would probably allow Louis and time traveling Nicky to double penetrate his wife.

I wouldn't quite pin it on Robespierre in this case. He had pretty much nothing to do with her charges or trial. He actually petitioned for her trial to be taken off the docket because he thought she and the remainder of the family should be exiled to Austria, but he withdrew his protest when his own life was threatened.

But the trial was definitely lunacy even without Robespierre. One of the charges against her was that she opened the door of the Tuileries during the family's flight to Montmedy. Her opening the door was therefore proof that she controlled Louis XVI and directed him to flee. Because she.... opened the door.

>DIOS PATRIA Y REY

Is that anything like God, King and Country?

>he withdrew his protest when his own life was threatened

His cowardice disgusts me!

>I wouldn't quite pin it on Robespierre in this case

Oh I wasn't blaming Robespierre. I meant that even now, it could've been salvaged, and when Robespierre did eventually go nuts that was the death knell (literally and figuratively)

Robespierre was a cool dude, I was shocked to learn how moderate he actually was for most of the revolution and it was really towards the end of the Girondins that he went turbo

That's exactly what it is, different order though.

That's the joke, bruh.

they retired and ignored public life and opinions in favour of a quiet, private life with their family

It's interesting to see where the revolution took Robespierre, for sure.

to Japan! He now has his own Takarazuka show.

dropped my image

So what actually happened during Joseph II's visit?

Did he literally coach from the sidelines like Mickey?

It's like the three major characters in the French Revolution (Lou, Mary and Max the autist) are just scapegoats for basically everything wrong.

Joseph II basically had long conversations with both of them to find out the situation and then gave advice.

Assuming that everything Joseph II wrote to his brother were true: Louis XVI eventually told Joseph that he entered into Marie Antoinette with a "firm" and solid erection, and remained there for a few minutes but did not ejaculate. Joseph II, though he does not say it explicitly, presumably told Louis that he had to finish inside her in order for her to get pregnant. He also wrote that if he had been there, he would have had him "whipped like a donkey until he ejaculated out of sheer anger."

Joseph didn't write if Louis XVI explained exactly why he didn't finish inside her, or at least not in this surviving letter. It's impossible to know if Louis withheld certain information or if Joseph II withheld information. I can't see him going into detail about his younger sister's vagina, if Louis did say anything about the pain he had mentioned to Louis XV and his physicians from years before. Also Maria Theresa and the Austrian ambassador frequently ignored the possibility of the consummation problem being at all related to Marie Antoinette and blamed Louis totally, so it's possible that Joseph II was following their lead.

Kind of. They each played a part, but none were as culpable or as horrible as history as painted them. It's a lot easier for people to digest history--or recent events--if they place the blame on easily identifiable people than try to slog through the 8792343 people and events and factors that were involved.

Kind of like how people will use Marie Antoinette's hamlet as a scapegoat for ancien regime spending, even though it was a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of total royal spending in her husband's reign. But it's more distinct and easily identifiable symbol than "Louis inherited billions of debt from Louis XV's wears, then spent billions on the American Revolution and was unable to even out of the debt because of a combination of his indecisiveness, the Parlement's refusal to pass tax form, etc"

and of course the only ones who benefited it were the (((bourgeoisie)))

bump

Why?

>whipped like a donkey until he ejaculated out of sheer anger
How can anyone not be a monarchist?

Oh, and for Antoinette, he basically told her that she had to focus more on her husband and less on her entertainments. And that it was her own behavior which kept them from regularly sharing a bed, since she would stay out late to gamble or dance or party and the king went to bed at 10 or 11. He thought that she spent too much time going from dissipation to dissipation and behaved in a way that was unbecoming to a Queen--namely, as it's been said, like a private individual.

Excerpt from the letter he left behind for her, with his advice:

>Do you make yourself necessary to the King? Does he see that your affection is centered solely on him? Do you encourage your desire for glory at his expense? Are you totally discreet about his defects and weaknesses? Are you sociable and loving when you are with him? Your sole object must be to earn the friendship and trust of the King.

>As Queen you have a very clear role. Is your manner not slightly too offhand, and have you not adopted the behavior which was prevalent when you came here? Have you thought of the effects of your relationships and friendships, if they are not centered on people who are totally irreproachable? Have you thought of the frightening consequences of games of chance? Think for a moment if you will of the difficulties which you have already encountered at the Opera balls and of the incidents which you have yourself recounted to me which occurred at them.

>he would have had him "whipped like a donkey until he ejaculated out of sheer anger."

confused_erection.png

>tfw thinking of her nicely perfumed and powdered body being manhandled by numerous angry, sweaty, foul smelling peasants

Nah, she never got manhandled. The most is they held her arm escorting her out of the Temple Prison and into the Conciergerie. Or when she had her hands bound before her execution.

Madame Veto avait promis
De faire égorger tout Paris

Robespierre is at fault for a lot of what went wrong with the French Revolution.

she didn't actually say it

Yep. Here's something she actually said in regards to the poor lacking bread:

>It is at the same time amazing and wonderful to be so well received two months after the riots and in spite of the high price of bread which unfortunately continues [...] It is certain that when people who are suffering treat us so well, we are even more obligated to work for their happiness.

For context, she was responding to the positive reception she and Louis got during his coronation, which came just a few months after a bread shortage caused the Flour Rebellion.

A few weeks later she wrote again, when talking about how Louis axed court celebrations for 2 upcoming royal marriages and both she and Louis pared down their households:

>Money will be saved; but, far more essential, a good example will be set for the people who have suffered so much from the high cost of bread. Luckily hope is returning; the wheat fields look very good, and bread is sure to be cheaper once the crop is in.

>muh muhs

...

Elaborate.

...

I can really see the Autistrian features...

She was stunning and brave.

Her daughter inherited her courage too.

From a letter written by Louis XVIII:

>It was [in 1791, when the royal family was blocked by a mob when they tried to leave for their country palace for Easter religious services] that I first saw my niece in her true colours. All the strength that the King and Queen and my sister had hitherto drawn from their natural firmness, courage and piety seemed now exhausted. We stared at one another in melancholy silence.

>My niece, who was then twelve years old, stood alone in the centre of this miserable circle. her expression, as she flitted from her father’s side to her mother or her aunt, showed that she was well aware of her position, but rose above it: tears were in her eyes, but her lips were smiling. Her innocent caresses, her tender thought for us all, and her comforting words were as balm upon all our wounds.

By the time Robespierre went full bonkers, the Revolution had already turned sour.

Maximillien was actually a voice of moderation and reason for most of the Revolution, until, well, the end when he went mad with paranoia.

Bump

Reminder that the French are subhuman beasts

>Maximillien was actually a voice of moderation and reason for most of the Revolution, until, well, the end when he went mad with paranoia.
This. I've heard it suggested that Robby got sick and had a nervous breakdown, as he withdrew ans was ill for many weeks. After that there was a marked shift in his personality and that was when he just started killing people.

Up until that point he had worked hard to try and reign in the revolution and it's insanity, advised against French adventurism, advocated on behalf of those condemned to the guillotine (sometimes successfully, often not)

There were also multiple assassination attempts which would make most people paranoid as fuck

French aristocrats had it coming though

I'm bored and obsessed with Marie Antoinette. Does anyone have any questions about her that I might be able to answer?

So did the revolutionaries. Too bad most of them never got theirs.

>bored and obsessed with

I hate the Oxford comma what can I say

Honestly I can't hate her.