The unanswerable question: full body or split for natties?

Well I mean prioritizing bench and OHP over squat and deadlift.

>useless isolation exercises
>falling for the SS/SL meme

It's a bit complex. You could increase bench and press volume, and drop squat and deads volume (you should already be dling at low volume anyway), but you risk not recovering properly with your upper body and peaking up your squats instead.
To do it right, you'd have to check how you're recovering, how much volume you've done lately and how much you can do, and in short plan a whole mesocycle towards your bench and press.

Split is always better.

Full body is for "I don't have enough time" Netflix addicts. Almost never enough volume/sets/attention to each body part and you can't do more than 3-4 days /week

Splits are good as long as it's something like PPL and you go 5-6×/week. Each muscle needs to be hit a MINIMUM of twice a week.

Split if you can go to the gym 4-7 times a week
Full body if you can go 2-4 times a week

Beginners should do FB though

>WITH A RECOVERABLE WORK VOLUME
im pretty sure this is where my problem is. Post an example routine if you have the time.

>example routine
Here's my PPL, goes PPLPPLx, lifting 6/week. There are better examples around, ofc, but this one should show you how working out often but without very high volumes goes.

>Push
Bench Press, 3 sets (I do 1x3,1x5,1x8 on the main lifts but any 3 heavy as fuck sets would do, obv.)
OHP, 3 sets (as above)
Lying Triceps Extensions, 3x12
Abs, 1 set AMAP (it gets boring)

>Pull
Power (or other variation) Clean, 5x3
Deadlift, 1x3 but only on the first Pull of the week
Chin ups, 3 sets (ideally 1x3 weighted,1x5 weighted, 1xAMAP bodyweight)
Rows, 2x12
Dips 3x12

>Legs
Front Squats, 6 sets (2-3x3,2x5,1-2x8, could switch to back squats ofc)
RDL 3x5
GHR 3x12
Abs 1 set

>also, every time for that low volume/high frequency hit:
bicep curls 2x12
side raises 2x12
band facepull 1 setl

PHUL is GOAT

Test what suits you. I make better gains with full body workout 3x a week.

For natties?
GOAT, but only if you build it like a TM variation.

>not doing a west side upper lower split to maximize athletic qualities

thanks man!

So should I start PPL after I've plateau'd from a full body routine like SS or SL?

Also what makes brosplit a meme compared to PPL and Upper/lower body?

>should I start PPL after I've plateau'd from a full body routine
Yes, or build PPL as a 'for beginners' routine, doing just 1 or 2 exercises per day and overloading the linear progression on the usual 3x5. But if you have to go to the gym just to do some squats and go away it feels like a waste of time.
In the end what matters is the work you do over time, you could take SS and break it down into 6 days, but that would eat a lot of spare time for no additional gain.
>what makes brosplit a meme
high volume/low frequency when you hit a muscle 1/week for a fuckload of sets. It leads to nogains unless you're 'chemically enhanced'.

excuse me, sir. what is GHR?

>training anything less than every day just for the sake of it

Glute-ham raise. Maybe you know it as a Nordic Curl? It's a bodyweight leg curl.

>state of Veeky Forums

Back/chest/legs/chest/back/off/off

Fpbp

what about 4day push pull?

What about bicep, tricep and shoulder?

can you post a PPL for intermediate lifters?

workouts seem a bit short, huh? I'm not too experienced so why are they so short?

On the same day they get worked with your compounds. Chest/tris, back/bis, do shoulders on leg day or devote an off day.

Always do splits. Starting with a full body routine is one of the biggest memes of all time. No one can actually offer a legitimate explanation as to why beginners do a full body routine. It's because there is no good reason

good luck getting 4 plate bench without isolating triceps

Are you the same faggot from last night's CBT thread?
You are retarded if you think you can make gains whilst training daily.

why not up the volume of each session but lift 4x a week?

the gym is a 25 minute drive I don't want to so that shit 6x a week

...

just inject you faggot

You understand absolutely fucking nothing about building muscle.
Lurk more you retarded faggot

watch some Eric bugenhagen you fucking gde

How many days per week will you go to the gym?

3 = full body
6 = split

sheeit nigga i just went right into ppl as a beginner am i fucked/retarded?

>as a beginner am i fucked
no

I do this, every other day no matter what. In and out the door in 45 mins. Enough to exhaust me and give me a pump but doesn't absolutely wreck my day. Honestly should add more back and leg stuff, but I'm hesitant to make it take longer.

Any input?

>pulling 3 times a week
>chest 3 times a week
>all delt heads 3 times a week
>hamstrings 3 times a week

Not a single full body routine does this.

Pro tip: Bench and OHP doing ULxULxx and suddenly you're benching AND ohping 2x per week. Wow! Isn't that just crazy?

is solid advice, but you can adjust what he says a little. i took nsuns 5/3/1 (5-day) and changed the accessories up a little, with the result that M/W are full-body days that strongly emphasise the lower body, Tu/Th are upper days, and F is full-body

the point is that you should try and get in adequate volume at an adequate intensity without taxing yourself too much. UL and PPL splits are an easy way to do this, but full-body routines that have you going 4+ times a week to the gym can be made to work—you just need to manage your fatigue

>Not a single full body routine does this.
er

Was using a derogatory racial slur and a swear word in this post really necessary? Kids browse these websites you know. You could have said "I went right into ppl as a beginner, did I mess up?" and nothing would have changed. I get that you're an angsty teen going through puberty but that doesn't excuse the foul language.

this website is 18+ only

eric said so

it's not terrible, but
1. why bother curling instead of doing more chin-ups?
2. a lot of people find shrugs to be a waste of time; something like a snatch pull, a farmer's walk, or a weighted carry would be a better idea if you're trying to get bang-for-your-buck. (snatch pulls would be my suggestion.)
3. direct ab work is more useful than you'd think and you could add in some lateral raises. you could superset this with the other stuff

ultimately, if you want to make more progress in the longer run, you'll need more volume and frequency, but cross that bridge when you stall

not that guy, but vertical pulls don't grow biceps as effectively as curls do
nevertheless, as a noob compounds should 100% be the priority

Is this bait?

I started working out four days in a row recently and what I found best so far is one working set per lift.

The major advantage to doing only one set is you can go batshit insane with intensity on that one set and not hurt yourself because it's easier to use good form when you're not saving any energy for the next set.

In order to make up for the lost volume, you do more variations. So for example for chest, normally I'd just do bp 3x5 and call it a day. Instead I do bp 1x1RM, db bp 1xAMRAP and dips either 1xAMRAP or weighted 1x1RM. It's a little less volume but more variety, frequency and intensity.

lmao this nigga is crazy

checked. you're right—but if he's doing A and B three times a week, he'd only be doing 3 sets of pulling in any plane (namely, the chin-ups on B; deadlift is more of a hip extension)

& i probably should've suggested rows over chin-ups in A, but it depends on how much he cares about his biceps

*but he'd be doing either 3 or 6 sets of pulling in any plane

yeah fair, I agree with you, if he wants to do curls they should be a the end of either of the days and the third exercise in A should either be a row or a vertical pull

I bench 171kg without triceps isolations

>t. Dyel

Mfw been doing PPL 7 days a week being natty with amazing gains and not feeling tired or exhausted through the day. Guess I'm not human.

>amazing gains
Guaranteed dyel

No need to be triggered that you're doing your meme routines with 3 days rest per week and not seeing gains, then coming on an indonesian cotton farming board and telling yourself everyone who does something else than you is lying.

post body and stats

>half an hour has passed
>still no stats
>still no photo
>'''''amazing gains''''

If we assume a natty works at least 30 hour week, has friends, hobbies and a love life go full body

Enhanced neets can do what they want

Because with that routine you're lifting 6/week, workouts HAVE to be sort of short if you're doing that natty, both for ease of recovery and to maximise the hormonal response to the training.
You can do that, you'll end up with an UL split of some sort. That routine is just an example for low volume/high frequency.
Just take the routine I posted and re-arrange it so the first PPL of the week has more volume, and the second PPL has higher weights.
Like, take all the 'main' exercises (bench, press, chin ups if you want to, front squats or whatever other variation) - instead of 1x3,1x5,1x8 you could do 3x5,2x8 on the first day and just 1x3 (driving up the weights) on second day. Or 2x5,2x8 and 2x3, just keep the total volume per week the same, it's a weekly mesocycle.
Of course deadlift go on the second pulling day, and for squats maybe do 4x5,2x8 on the first day and 2x3,2x8 on the second. 4x5 squats and drop sets is going to suck tho.
The rest can stay more or less the same, to keep thing simple.
Of course as an intermediate you should modify the routine based on how you can recover, if you end up using this pls use it just as a starting template and customize it to your own needs.

Upper body twice a week, some legs once a week.

This works best for me long term, with a job and shit to do all day.

Can I ask what kind of weight your are pushing with that routine? My problem also is recovering but when I see the amount of volume you describe then it literally looks like 30-40% of what I do. Again, my problem is recovery, yet I can't believe I would grow on a routine like the one you posted.

I always thought it was to build a decent level of muscle mass through heavy compound movements that activate all the large muscles and allows you to quickly gain strength in the beginning?

Usually you stick to a beginner program with heavy compounds for 6-9 months and then you switch to something more advanced.

Rate pls

PULL
-Pull-ups/lat pull downs 4x12
-Hammer curls 3x12
-Seated rows 3x12
-Isolation curl 3x12
-Rear delt flies 3x12
-Preacher curls 3x12
-Straight arm lat pulldown 3x12
-Roman chair hyperextenders 3x12
-Leg raises 3x12

PUSH
-Bench 4x10
-Tricep pulldown 3x12
-Side lat raise 3x12
-OHP 3x10
-Dips 3x12
-Flies 3x12
-Tricep overhead extension 3x12
-Incline dumbbell 3x10
-Shrugs 3x12

LEGS
-Squat 4x10
-Calf Raises 4x12
-Hamstring curls 3x12
-Leg extension 3x12
-Leg raises 3x12
-Oblique side bends 3x12
-Rope ab crunches 3x20
-Decline sit ups 3x20

Whichever one fits into your schedule better. If you have lots of freetime a few times a week do full body. If you only have a little free time but basically every day, do a split. If you're neet, do whichever you like better. The best program for you is the one you'll actually follow.

150kgsx3 back squat before starting that routine, now: front squat 100x3 (weaker than it should be, I'm focusing on it for now), bench 115x3, ohp 80x3, deadlift 165x3. Previous experience: SS, then the TM for a couple of months, tried the Advanced UL TM to slow down the massacre, it was good but not fun at all, now this.
In theory, if you drop the volume you get some peaking out of your old training, so if you were to switch to a low-volume routine you should not only feel fresher, but also get some gains in the process.

>6 times a week training
Do you have nothing else to do?
This is retarded.

The routine I posted doesn't take very long.
6 sets on the big lifts, a couple assistance exercises, and 5 sets of 'beach muscles', it takes 1h or just slightly more.

Typical PPL programs and splits are like an hour a day. That's very convienient if you have a gym near your work or on the way home. If you work until 5, how are you supposed to get enough volume to progress while lifting? Sure one you could do on weekend, but that's still twice a week that you wouldn't be leaving the gym until after 8.

>people who choose to prioritise things differently to me are retarded

>people who overtrain to the point of not allowing their muscles to recover, preventing them from having successful workouts or building muscle properly are retarded
Yes that is correct

Thanks will try. Looks like we are of similar strength, +-5% depending on the excercise. My problem is, I barely had any strength progress for roughly 2 years now but still gained muscle, currently sitting around 96kg @ 1,81m with 16-17% bf. I'm gonna cut down to 12% and then try this "low volume" stuff.

It doesnt matter as long as you train each muscle 2-3 times a week. 3 is optimal and can be done with full body and some splits. and a program with enough volume

>Pretending he knew and wasn't waiting for someone to ask

>he thinks that muscles can't recover within 72 hours
>he probably also thinks that you cant squat every day
>he's never visited Bulgaria

If you're over 200lbs that means nothing.

is this b8

oi, am I doing too much shit?

Not the guy your arguing, but people who squat heavy everyday work to that capacity over years. If you think you can start out with that then youre retarded.

been thinking of doing ppl x7days
pls post body so I can decide

swap out curls for barbell rows

full body for beginner, then do bulgarian

>doing a laundry list of pump and fluff excersises
PPL is a meme

Ppl or ul on a long term cut? Like 4 month cut. Pls respond.

Possibly, but if you're gaining without stalling that's good. You can lower the volume when you stall, and keep on gaining.

>pump and fluff exercises
What would you take away from ?
The arms everyday thing is just pump, but the rest is legit.

Both would be very similar in volume per week, choose based on how much time you have and how far the gym is.

This FUCKING MANLET is trainign twice a week doing full body routine full of MEME LIFTS yet he's stronger than you with 700lbs tb dl and bigger than you at lean 190lbs at 5'5 and basically you're FUCKING STUPID
find out how for just $47 (-10% with outalpha promocode)

I do PLPS. Push, legs, pull, shoulders. I don't like doing upper body back to back days and I don't like doing shoulders/chest back to back so this is my routine. It suits me well, I'm almost at 2/3/4/5 for reps, my OHP is close at 215 but my bench is only at 295, I'm 5'10 195lbs btw.

i would cut out everything and pick 2 or 3 lifts i want to improve in and do those everyday. you still have too much going on here, you need a greater focus on what you want to improve on.

and off that topic, i would make abs something to train everyday, just for like 10 minutes, since they are very resilient to training

>implying
(you're obviously right)