I see a lot of people say that st. Paul ruined Christianity. But there is never an explanation along with it...

I see a lot of people say that st. Paul ruined Christianity. But there is never an explanation along with it. I'm genuinely curious why people say this, so can somebody explain why Paul was bad?

lol still no explanation

Heretics despise the truth. Paul was an Apostle and his writings are the inspired word of God. Heretics such as the Gnostics reject Paul because they've already rejected God. There's simply no room for their heresies in Paul's writings, so instead of abandoning their errors they instead deny Paul. Lord knows I've fallen into such errors myself, but I repudiate them now. God have mercy.

Stop larping, please.

I'm not.

Paul wrote a lot of cool fanfiction that some people like and some people hate.

(((Paul of Tarse))) didn't want the goyim to be truly monotheistic

>He made a cult that was obviously Hebrew and followed the Torah to be a worldwide religion despite what Jesus said, that's why he is called "the Apostle to the Gentiles".
>He was a cocksucker to the rich and powerful.

Paul basically hijacked Christianity, and transformed it from a Jewish religion to a gentile one.

I think this is what your looking for.

Paul seemed more focused on making it the most common religion out there without really considering what that might have done to the faith.

Jesus ministered to Gentiles and had Gentile followers in the Gospels. Also, read the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

>Jesus ministered to Gentiles
No he didn't.

>and had Gentile followers in the Gospels
Who?

Nope.

>Who is the centurion whose servant got healed

21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon.

22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”

26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

Matthew 15:21-26

Because most of Christian theology ultimately derives from Paul's epistles, not elsehwere in the Bible or Christian thought. And Paul is VERY clearly a liar, and something of an idiot.

Consider how in his autobiographical notes cross-referenced with Acts, he is supposedly a rabid Pharisee before his visitation. He's so rabid, in fact, that he accepts the authority of a Sadducee High Priest to go illegally round up people outside of Iudea, using an authority that the High priest does not have in any religious or secular sense, and is the leader of his own sect's biggest rival sect. Then we have his rather dubious knowledge of Judaism style theology. Jesus is the Lamb of God, offered as a sacrifice for our sins with the Paschal offering. Of course, Paschal offerings don't really have anything to do with sin and are more of a national affirmation to the ancient Judeans; the sacrifice itself has commonalities with thanksgiving offerings, not sin offerings. And actual sin offerings are usually bulls, but in very rare instances you do offer lambs. Female lambs. Come to think of it, I can't think of a time that Paul talks about sacrificial offerings in any context other than remission for sin, even though those happened all the time and were probably more important to actual Judean faith than his constant obsession with sin, death, and rebirth. I wonder where he got those notions from, because it certainly wasn't from Gamaliel.

Also, he can't give a metaphor without tripping over it. Go re-read Romans 7:1-6. He can't seem to decide if his audience is supposed to be the widow, now unbound from her former marriage, or the reborn formerly dead husband. But he was apparently eloquent enough to convince large masses of people that he spoke for Jesus, more so than the people who actually met the fellow. Hard to believe that Jesus would want things so obviously wrong creeping into his doctrine, but there you have it.

Which parts of the NT are written by Paul

The question is how did he got away with it? Reading him is obvious the actual Apostles, specially Peter didn't like him that much.

You have 14 epistles traditionally ascribed to Paul. Those are: Romans, the two Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, the two Thessalonians, Hebrews, the two to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon.

It's not entirely clear if Paul actually wrote all 14 of them. There are certain linguistic deviancies in some that cause people to challenge Pauline authorship, but I'm not enough of a NT scholar to really follow the arguments or offer an opinion on them. There are also some letters that Paul refers to in his other epistles, which have not survived.

I'm guessing here, but I think it's a reasonable chain of supposition.

We know that Paul did most of his proselytizing in Greece, and probably to Gentiles. A bunch of Greek guys aren't going to be able to notice his little OT doctrinal errors, and they probably won't care if someone pointed it out to them. Paul's Christianity is really about rejecting Judaism anyway, and embracing the new salvation that Jesus offers. Someone who doesn't have a Judaism to reject isn't going to find that message hard to swallow.

He thus creates a "wing" of Christainity that is very anti-Judaism, at a time when most of the rest of Christianity was still retaining some character and connection of a more mainstream Judaism, mostly a syncretic Pharisee-Essene sort of mix. Come AD 66, and the great Jewish revolt, a lot of the more Judaic Christian elements, still living in Iudea, still identifying Jesus as a Jewish reformer and not a creation of a break and a new religion, side with the rebels, and that ends badly for them. The Romans thus wipe out most of Paul's competition, and that leaves him free to push his message without a lot of the formerly dissenting voices, especially the more prestigious ones. With the Gospels starting to come out at around this time, you're left primarily with Pauline churches to issue what becomes the foundation stones for the canon, and the rest is history.

So Christianity was only intended for Jews? Why?

Paul is the apostle to the Gentile nations of the world, so about 98% of the world's population. Peter was the apostle to the Jews, about 2% of the world's population.

Before Paul was converted, the new christians had no clue what to do. They knew they were no longer Jews, but they kept doing everything Jews did. They kept kosher, they kept circumcising their sons, they kept going to the Temple, they kept taking mikvahs, and they kept praying to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In other words, they were trying to keep the Law. And the Jews had no problems with this, and allowed them access to the Temple, etc., without persecuting them at all. Because all they were really doing was Judaism plus saying Jesus is the Messiah, and so were treated like harmless children.

Paul spent years with the risen Christ Jesus, having perfected the Law in his youth, and knowing it for the trash that it was. Not the Law itself, but the lifestyle that was based on repeated attempts to keep the law, failing, offering sacrifices, trying again, failing, offering sacrifices, etc.

What the Jews, mostly, who say that Paul "ruined Christianity" mean is that Paul established the New Covenant is completely unlike the Old Covenant.

Exactly as Jeremiah had prophesied.

The Jews who remain Jews are blind to Moses and the prophets, and cannot understand them at all. Unless and until they turn to Christ, they remain blinded.

>his little OT doctrinal errors,

There were none. The NT is not like the OT, which you would know if you believed Jeremiah.

No, that's not the case at all. Salvation was first presented to the Jews, but knowing the Jews would reject and murder their messiah, Paul revealed the mystery that God always intended salvation to belong to all who believe.

So Paul>Jesus?

Why not see what Paul had to say about the matter?

1 Corinthians 1
For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

There is nothing Paul taught that he did not receive by direct revelation from Jesus.

27 But she said: Yea, Lord; for the whelps also eat of the crumbs that fall from the table of their masters.

28 Then Jesus answering, said to her: O woman, great is thy faith: be it done to thee as thou wilt: and her daughter was cured from that hour.

But NT>OT by infinite measure, yes.

Wtf that's like the entire new testament. What wasn't attributed to him?

The Gospels, Acts, Revelation. A couple of the other Epistles like James and Peter. I'm sure there are other epistles that are from other authors as well, but I'm blanking on them.

finish the verse fucktard
the only two people in the Gospel of Matthew where this verse comes from who Jesus specifically commends for their faith are the Canaanite woman and the gentile Roman Centurion

>2%
0.2% is more like it

He explicitly states that he was there for the Hebrews, a couple of gentiles with faith don't mean anything.

If Gentile Christianity won out, why did they keep the Old Testament, and why did the church fathers decry Marcion, a devout follower of Paul?

Paul imposed his headcanon and personal interpretation on the nascent church. Wether he ruined it is debatable, since I don't think the Catholic church would have developed into the behemoth it became without his skills.

Has anyone else noticed the surge in churches that practice Jewish rituals, celebrate Jewish holidays, observe the Torah, and refer to Jesus as "Yeshua"? I thought Paul made it clear Christians shouldn't be doing those things and that judaizers were heretics.

because the NT references the OT way too much for them to just drop it

t. I totally understand Judaism better than Jews

You haven't dealt much with born-again Christians, have you? They quite literally and unironically claim that they understand Judaism better than Jews, and Christainity emerged because Jews didn't understand REAL Judaism, i.e. born-again Christianity.

Yeah I know, it's a real delusion that virtually all of Christianity is based on. Like so many religious declarations based on this site I'm not sure to take it ironically not.

Stop worshipping paul, Pauline. He's not the son of god

Then they should've just re-edited the NT.

I've noticed this cancerous shit as well. It's a total judaizing of the religion.

I can understand if you're literally Jewish and you call him yeshua, but if you're not, just kys.

Yes, Judaism is getting more fashionable now.

Not a difficult accomplishment dude.

Citing Paul is not worshiping Paul.

No God
No Covenant
No Temple
No High Priest
No Ark
No Animal Sacrifices

Judaism, today, as a functioning religion, does not exist.

What does exist in its place is Talmudic Judaism, or Rabbinical Judaism, which is so divorced from Judaism as to be unrecognizable.

Most jews don't even know that Christianity is older than the Judaism they practice. Rabbinical Judaism is a 5th century religion. Christianity is a 1st century religion.


>inb4 b-b-but
Sorry I didn't know you guys still had pharisees, priests, and blood sacrifices in a temple

Christianity is an 11th century phenomenon. The religion as it is practiced today bears no resemblance to what Jesus and his disciples did.

Christianity started on the day of Pentecost, 32 AD, and has remained unchanged ever since.

>We don't live our lives walking with Jesus, setting up churches, worshiping God, and telling other people the good news.

kek

Really? How many Passovers have you consumed, like Jesus and disciples? How much have you spent wandering around penniless, describing the imminent end of the world? And don't you think that said imminent end of the world is a bit different when you're practicing it near 2,000 years after the last group of people saying that the sky is falling any day now?

You do realize Jesus was testing her faith by pretending to look down on her like most Jews did to Canaanites right? Jesus was basically insulting Jews for having a weaker faith than the people they looked down and he proved this through a lot of hyperbole which was a common teaching tool at the time.

So you've sold all your possessions and lived as a homeless man? Where do you get your computer from? And what churches did Jesus set up? There aren't any mentions of such in the Gospels. That's another deviation. Jesus would just pray wherever he happened to be.

Modern day Christianity was founded 1517

SEETHING.

Are you really under the impression that Christianity existed prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Why do you labor under such a delusion?

Why on earth do you think Jesus told all of us to be homeless?

You're really a bizarre creature, you know?

Pentecost 32 AD.

>How many Passovers have you consumed, like Jesus and disciples?

Once, and for all.

Pissed off Jews are the best, aren't they?

Of course it did. It existed from the first time Jesus invented a new doctrine. What the hell do you think Jesus was preaching, exactly?

What Catholic friar started October 31, 1517, Pope Francis ended October 31, 2017.

Why don't papists know that, I wonder.

He told all of his followers to drop everything they were doing and follow him around. Having a home isn't conducive to that.

Really? You've just been saying how there's no Temple, no sacrifices. Where did you get them to slaughter your lamb?

Hes one of those liberal people who thinks Christianity is only about being poor and loving your neighbor

Hes the Christian equivalent of tikkum olam fags. They need to be gassed whether Christian or jew

Christianity:
1. Confession that Jesus is God; and
2. Belief that Jesus rose from the dead.

Now tell me, how does one believe Jesus rose from the dead prior to the crucifixion?

Yes, his apostles. And any who wanted to be an apostle did so. The apostles died 1900 years ago, and are in glory now. There were 13 of them.

No, Christianity is following the teachings and doctrines of Jesus. Which Paulians like you do not do, which is why you're not Christians.

Jesus is the Lamb of God whose body was broken on the cross at Calvary Nisan 14, 32 AD, and whose blood was shed in propitiation for all sins.

Once, and for all.

My High Priest declared "Tetelestai".

What did yours say again?

It's funny that the left pretends to care about poor people. They hate poor people. They just hate rich people more.

No, Judaism is following the teachings and doctrines of Jesus.

Can't believe you didn't know that, but there you have it.

Oh, yeah. Yours said "better for one innocent man to die than the nation perish".

I wonder what he's thinking in Hades right this moment.

Nope, 1 Corinthians 15:6 mentions a 500 followers who saw him rise again. That's well more than 13 dicsiples.

Lambs aren't sacrificed for the sins of the people. When they are sacrificed for certain specific sins, they're female. Are you saying Jesus was a woman? Funny how none of the gospels mention that. Also funny how the actual people who literally knew Jesus went to a LITERAL Passover sacrifice and ate a LITERAL lamb in a LITERALLY Jewish ceremony that has nothing to do with sin. (Except according to John, who can't keep his story straight with the other gospel authors)

That one innocent man was the Jewish Messiah, and instead of hailing Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, they conspired to murder him.

Jews.

There is a difference between the 13 hand picked apostles and all of the disciples that followed, who number in the tens of millions.

They were at the Exodus, on Passover.

Do you even Jew?

Your lamb shall be an unblemished

male

a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 'You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight.…

Do you even Jew?

They haven't sacrificed an animal in 2000 years so they skipped over that part

I know the plight of the Jews is pitiful, but to not know the Exodus story inside and out is just inexcusable. Jew trying to tell me that Moses called for a female lamb to slaughter to keep them from the angel of death. Just ponderous.

If they believed in Moses and the prophets, they would believe in Jesus, and be saved. So any Jew I meet, I know one thing, for sure. He doesn't believe Moses and the prophets.

>Lambs aren't sacrificed for the sins of the people.

and a city doesn't magically become your living room because you circle it with a piece of string, yes we know that Jews value empty ritual and the letter of the law over the spirit, what is your point?

Moses was overrated anyway. The OT sucks.

>No, you don't understand, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was merely pretending to be retarded!

>Witness countless miracles, communicate directly with god, still lose faith...
Moses get it together. If you haven't read what muhammed said about moses you should, it's a riot.

ITT: jooz jooz jooz

>The Christianity I practice is from the 1st century
Ha, nice try. Original Christianity was even different from the ecumenical council Christianity.

Have you ever looked at the definition of a messiah? An example is Cyrus the Great.

What did he say?

If/when the temple gets rebuilt and sacrifices resume how willl christfags respond?

>no priestly caste
It would just be LARPing because the records were destroyed

It's basically muhammed negotiating a contract with god about how much people should pray, and everytime muhammed tells moses what god says, moses tells him to go back and argue for a better deal. It's literally moses saying you're breaking my balls, over and over again, until muhammed gets fed up with his jewishness and declares that people shall pray all day but only "go through the motion of praying" 5 times a day. I just thought it was amusingly stereotypical.
>Pray 5 times a day? It's anuddah shoah, ask him if we can pray just 3 times a day.
Taking "wrestle with god" literally.

Modern Judaism: the religion taught by Jesus minus animal sacrifices and more liberal views on divorce
Modern christianity: the religion taught by Jesus minus animal sacrifices and dietary restrictions and Sabbath observance plus all the incoherent stuff Paul said plus two extra gods one of which is Jesus plus endless debates about whether bread is actually a man's body and more liberal views on divorce.
Take your pick.

Jewish priests still exist and play a role in synagogue worship

They don't have any official ties to the priests of old they just call themselves priests

All the records of who belongs to the priest class was destroyed when the temple burnt

>Heretics such as the Gnostics reject Paul
Not true at all. Saint Paul was venerated by Gnostics, at least some. More accurate is that Jewish Christians rejected Paul

>everyone forget who was a priest the day after the siege
>not realizing sacrifices temporarily resumed 60 years later during Bar Kokhba's uprising
>not realizing people with the surname Kohen are all patrilineally related.

>mommy changes her last name to Cohen
>I WUZ PRIESTS AND SHIET WE GO BACK 2000 YEARS SENPAI

yeah gonna need a source

>genetic testing is we wuzzing

>genetic testing something 2000 years ago
????

There is only one Anointed One who will sit on the throne of David forever, and his name is Jesus, not Cyrus.

Cyrus was another shepherd, not the messiah. Not even qualified to be the messiah.

>An example is Cyrus the Great.

This is why you Jews are going to hail the Antichrist as your messiah, just as you demanded the release of the murderer Barabbas over Jesus.