This is Mikhail Gorbachev, he singlehandedly and accidentaly destroyed the Soviet Union

Imo they could have saved socialism itself if they had done a controlled transition to a quasi market economy, adopted elements of Yugoslavia’s model, and democratized the political system by returning to the pre 1921 model of Soviet democracy. What socialism needs is a worker controlled state where controlled experiments can be undertaken in isolated environments to test our different models of planned economy and market mechanisms.

>The Soviet economy was already in a dire situation since 1917.

Yes

He is a great man like Donald Trump. Like Donald Trump he was leader of a super power, was pro-business, made Russia great again, and starred in a Pizza Hut commercial.

Gorbachev:
youtube.com/watch?v=fgm14D1jHUw

Trump:
youtube.com/watch?v=pvp-XMqnh-g

>when you fuck up your job so hard you get a Nobel prize for it

I don't understand what you're trying to imply

He’s saying that communism was doomed from the start. Tbh I don’t know enough about Soviet economic history to say either way, but it clearly had some major successes under Stalin. From what I can tell a lot of their shortcomings were political. The lack of democracy made corruption rampant since the people couldn’t hold their leaders accountable, one man management of workplaces made it easy for managers to sell shit on the black market, frustrating planning efforts and causing shortages, where they decided to devote resources (overspending on the military vs underspending on consumer goods), not making use of modern technology like cybernetics to plan the economy, piss poor incentive systems, etc. Then you had full retard policy decisions like how any technology with potential military application was immediately classified instead of being made public and implemented in the civilian sector.

He should have kept the ethnically Slavic countries apart of Russia and maybe even Kazakhstan for the resources. Besides that he did ok.

He also should have given Sakhalin and the Kurils to Japan.

>both are also Jew puppets
Hmmm...

There are a million ways the USSR could have survived. From a more orderly transition into capitalism followed by democracy, to a China style series of reforms, to a North Korean style ultra-Stalinist crackdown.

Gorbachev ensured that his country would break apart with his incompetence. He is unironically one of the most incompetent leaders to have ever led a country.

Glasnost before the most dire Soviet problems were resolved was ill-advised, and Perestroika was a complete disaster.

>He should have kept the ethnically Slavic countries apart of Russia and maybe even Kazakhstan for the resources
That would have led to Yugoslavia times ten.

Also he didn't do shit to keep or lose these territories one way or another -- all these processes were entirely out of his hands.

Comrade Gorbachev is real.

>the mighty Soviet Union gets BTFO by fucking doritos

youtube.com/watch?v=Y6sBAaoC2F4

No, the Gang of 8 destroyed the Soviet Union.

Gorbachev had a treaty ready that would have kept most of the republics together.

Fuck Japan!

The PRC's transition needed Deng Xiaoping and his cadre of super-technocrats.

The USSR in 1980 didn't have anyone close to Deng's caliber.

Deng did not singlehandedly reform everything. Like the Soviet leaders to the North after Stalin, Deng was merely first speaker among the politburo. Keep in mind that before the cultural revolution Mao as more or less hated by his own party, and the cultural revolution was a means of making war on it. There was no real struggle for leadership or political disunity, everyone more or less agreed on what ought to be done.

> Deng was merely first speaker among the politburo

Unlike the general secretary, Deng was CINC of the Chinese military, and had the loyalty of the military commanders.

There was "no real struggle" because the the opposition had already been purged by the time that Deng started his rule. The CCP was led by rehabilitated members who know exactly who was responsible for their return to power.

Gorbachev, being in charge 15 years earlier may have been able to save the USSR.

>xi will singlehandedly bring down everything deng built in stereotypical autocratic fashion

It's possible to have competent dictators with absolute power. I wouldn't write off Xi so soon

He prevented the collapse of the Soviet Union from turning into a nuclear shitflinging contest.

Xi might do totally fine, but the problem is the next guy or the one after might not, and suddenly they're free to do more damage now.

Nope. The URSS was already a walking dead man

>bringing back mao style absolute rule
Xi might (emphasis on might) not fuck up but its a recipe for disaster if another mao tier fuck up gains power.

Then you mean with USSR old Russian Empire borders?
I don't think there's a chance that Russia could have kept Baltic or Caucasus. Maybe Belorussia and Ukraine if they were smarter. Russia still has pretty good grip on Central Asia Islamic nations.

The collapse of the USSR was an artificial crisis. Their economy was fine. If there was any time it would have actually collapsed it would have been in the late 1920s when they first started the collective farming and planned economy. Gorbachev and other bureaucrats basically signed laws making themselves capitalists, and looted the country. There was no crisis that necessitated this, the "fall of the soviet union" is a myth. Russia has become a shittier country since then.

It's not that Xi will suddenly inflict Mao levels of damage, it's that nobody is perfect and people do not like admitting they fucked up.

kamloopsthisweek.com/dyer-china-xi-forever-longer/

I like his song
youtube.com/watch?v=gNl7u_ckbHU

He managed to prevent the situation from devolving into a bloody civil war with the factions also fighting over the nuclear arsenal, which is what most people expected would happen. Also, still better than Yelstin.

Great guy

Having the loyalty of military commanders is certainly important if one is expecting opposition.
But that's the thing: Deng (or, more accurately, the politburo) didn't have any. The gang of four were the dying gasps of a hated state in party affairs. The politburo functioned as it did because all were pretty much agreement in the shape of reforms, with or without Deng.

Probably not. Parties do not stand the monopolisation of power for too long, and the death of the absolute ruler, insofar as succession is not by blood or appointment (the later is theoretically possible, but practically improbable. Collective leadership takes over because that's what a politburo prefers.

>allowing democracy in a union that no one wants to be a part of

"accidentaly"

Stalin's economic successes are exaggerated to some extent. Yes, the Soviet Union's five year plans did yield important results, but Soviet figures heavily exaggerated them - I'd have to look at what the intelligence estimates were, but like half of the Soviet levels was roughly on par from my recollection. It was still fast and impressive growth, and with important strategic ramifications (such as the construction of Ural industry which was important for the Second World War), but not nearly as incredible as Soviet figures portrayed it was. Also, it was a catch-up period to return to the line of what Russian economic growth without the disasters of 1913 onwards : from my recollection Russia hadn't fully recovered its 1913 industrial capacity by the time the Five Year Plans started. Either way, it was still catch-up. And while it worked, it also was a model which was hard to build off of in the future, since it inherently relied on prioritizing investment above all else, and wasn't very efficient when it came to actually using that investing. Which for building up an industrial base is fine, but for growth into a more advanced economy?

This isn't even talking about the inherent problems associated with a centrally planned economy like the price system

Nah, most of the unions wanted to stay part, simply because they were poor and the RFSR was basically one giant welfare provider for its outlying republics (except the baltics, who besides being invaded by stalin performed well economically and therefore hated the shit out of the lot of them).
Fair amount of Warsaw pact countries wanted the fuck out tho, mostly because they felt themselves as being the economic life-support of the union and naturally resenting such (especially the germans, who had been wholesale robbed during and after the war, and had to build themselves up from scratch)

It's hard to save a country that is collapsing because the entire economy is based on oil exports. So even a Deng-like politician wouldn't have helped.

Fuck off weeb.

China still has Tibet, Xinkiang, Inner Mongolia. There was nothing stopping the Soviets from crushing dissent with tanks, or by not giving dissent a space to appear in the first place. Hell, even North Korea is still standing.

he singlehandedly destroyed the Soviet Union.

>"oops, i accidentally soviet union"

Hello Plebbit

include you?

He's hot

>Nice things about this Nigga
Count with me, yo
-Nut head
-President of a Socialist country
-100% love Father Americunt
-Nobel prize for destroy a nation
what he did is just an act of CIA to destroy CCCP, make Americunt become an Imperial beta male
Americunt bomb the shit out of Middle East, Africa,....
Just proud of this beta fag before your house get into the bank

>Hell, even North Korea is still standing.
Only because it has been propped up by stronger external powers for the entirety of its existence. Even then, after the fall of the USSR cracks have started to appear.

No. The Maoists were purged 1976-1980 and the liberals were purged 1987-1990.

There was immense struggle between factions, but Deng was Paramount Leader and he purged them all.

Your official title is meaningless in China for power.

This assumes that Xi controls all decisions in the government. He delegates that power to subordinates, and it has worked for 5+ years straight.

Pro-tip: he does not.

>What socialism needs is a worker controlled state where controlled experiments can be undertaken in isolated environments to test our different models of planned economy and market mechanisms.

Or MAYBE what socialism needs is to realize that burecratic control of a market place composed of millions of people and trillions of interactions is impossible, and should leave people fucking alone. If socialism is to ever work it will be on the smallest scales feasible. The family group or perhaps a small town.

Corporations are planned economies the largest of which are as big as medium sized countries. They are a proof of concept of economic planning.

There are also solutions like decentralized planning and cybernetic planning. The point is that Marxist-Leninists never experimented with these ideas.

>Mikhail Gorbachev
>destroyed the Soviet Union

Holy shit, the absolute state of Veeky Forums

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perestroika#Economic_reforms

>Corporations are planned economies the largest of which are as big as medium sized countries
Are you implying that a state can be as efficient as a corporation? While that may be possible, corporations are undemocratic and run by shareholders not employees.

I’m just arguing that central planning of demand, distribution, and inputs/outputs is proven to be possible. I don’t know for sure whether it could work with a democratic system of government or non-market motivations however. Just that the argument that it’s impossible to have effective economic planning is clearly false, thus making socialist planning feasible.

Also shareholders often number in the thousands and can be seen as analogous to officials in a representative democracy in terms of how corporate models of planning could be applied to socialism.

>Say something nice about him.
He single-handedly and accidentally destroyed the Soviet Union.

>China still has Tibet, Xinkiang, Inner Mongolia
There are only few million people living on those areas. They are mostly desert and mountains.
Almost half of USSR population was non-Russian.

>allowing people to have freedom leads to the collapse of communist regimes

wow amazing

Soviet union have rot itself during the 70s and 80s. He just peeled it

Right because there are no cases of democracy being crushed to prevent commies from taking over.

shit is just surreal
youtube.com/watch?v=fgm14D1jHUw