What stood in the way of the British and Germans allying around the turn of the century?

What stood in the way of the British and Germans allying around the turn of the century?

German autism.

Their pride and their similarity.

Literal german autism
>we’re building a massive fleet
>but we won’t twll britain it’s to figh japan until after the naval race

Wait holy shit did they really say that, or was it just a cover?

Why is Wilhelm wearing the leather Prussian hat instead of the aristocratic hard helmet? Autism?

Wilhelm being an autismo spaz didn't help

>waaah, only brits are allowed to own ships!!
and this autism is somehow germanys fault?

>The point
>Your empty skull

your point was shit, anyway

Its weird how similar yet different the Germs and Bongs were
Both were industrial
Both Protestant
Both hard working
Both disliked France
But
Germs were Collectivist whilst Bongs were Individualist
Germs were all about the state whilst bongs were all about profit
Germs were Militant whilst Bongs were Seafaring peoples
Germs were Idealist whilst Bongs were pragmatic peoples (For example Bongs first ally after splendid isolation [apart from Portugal] was Japan whilst Germany was obsessed with the Yellow Peril to the point of autism)

Ultimately I think its the Bongs (albeit conservative) Liberal tradition that pushed them away from the staunchly Traditional conservative Germs and into the Arms of the Liberal Frogs. Not to mention the Bongs were pragmatic in regards to the BOP so when Germany was formed and became a world power over night they naturally shit themselves and got together with France and Russia. Also Germany building a massive Fuck off fleet was autism considering they did not need it at all unless to fight Bongland.

>Bongs
>Germs
>Frogs
How to spot a 12 year old

The bongs feared the krauts, but the krauts were overtaking them economically, so it wasn't the time as any alliance would have been kraut-centric. The bongs musical alliances game was about to crash on the rocks, as a result.

And yet he concisely puts forth a solid opinion.

And yet he sounds like a immature retard whilst doing so

Economics and impetial considerations. Britain, above all things looked to secure India. Many of its strategic decisions were based around countering any threats to the Raj. The biggest competitor was Russia. The slow alignment of a Franco-russian power bloc and Germany's competition in trade and the naval arms race meant securing its overseas territory was easier by aligning itself with Russia and France. It is important to note that despite that Britain was adamantly opposed to war right up until the Belgian invasion. Russia made use of its land access to India to force Britain's hand and relationships between the two were utterly abysmal.

>Britain was adamantly opposed to war right up until the Belgian invasion
kek, the bongs lusted for war with Germany for at least a decade

It wasn't my point moron
The point was Germany was building ships to counter a british ally, of course that was a fucking spanner in the works

The bongs didn't give a fuck, they didn't want war though
It was the French who were still massively assblasted about the Franco Prussian war who were lusting for war with germany

Wilhelm did an odd thing where he was constantly switching between different military uniforms. It was once joked that he'd never go to an aquarium without first putting on a admiral's garb, nor would he ride a horse without switching to the uniform of a cavalry officer.

Find me an official who called for war

Speaking of admiral's uniforms, Wilhelm was actually an honorary admiral in the royal navy

Being this autistic about something as whimsical as turning nations names into cheeky phrases that represent national characteristics i.e.
Bong=chiming of big Ben and how Anglos tell the time due to being technologically backwards compared to the US who's greentext made this
Germ=Germans make you feel sick and Robert Koch who is a German who contributed considerable work on germs is a nice incedental link
Frogs=french eat frogs
No need to shit yourself over it senpai.

Daily Telegraph interview. Wilhelm came across as an autistic sperglord.

Looks like a metal pickelhaube, but with some sort of cloth or leather cover on top.

kings during wartime don't usually wear super fancy clothing

What is often forgotten is the Berlin-Bagdad railway.
The brits were shitting their pants that germany would be able to transport troops into the ME on land, entirely circumventing their naval superiority, gaining considerable access to petroleum, endangering their possessions and weakening their stance against russia further east.

Combine that with a possible alliance with russia, joining german industry with russian ressources... they could not possibly allow germany to strenghten.

Turns out the cost of "winning" that game was their precious empire.

>the krauts were overtaking them economically
What

False, the bongs were obsessed with war with the krauts, and every move they made was wrapped around that obsession.

Nobody calls for war, they plan for it and form alliances to fight it and position their forces to fight it, as the bongs did.

This guy gets it. This was the entirety of bong strategic thinking.

Your own curve makes my point, user.

Congrats, you just proved him right.

Only the US overtook them

I bet when someone says "German command" he goes "akschually it's the Oberste Heeresleitung"

Literally Edward Gray. Thats about it.

Many in the foreign office around 1912-13 started to realize Russia was growing very fast and soon wouldn't need England to be friendly in order to secure the Dardanelles.

They figured that entente with Germany against Russia would prove more useful to their interests in India, Tibet, and Afghanistan.

The entire British foreign policy was designed to relieve stress on the navy and military in this area. Around 1912-13 Russian liberla imperialists in the council of ministers pushed for war iwth Germany when Germany sent a General to be named the defender of the dardenels to protect the ottomans power over the straights.

England was a-ok with this as they wanted the Ottomans weak but independant as they had invested many dollars in the region.

Russia however was making moves in the balkans and drawing up war plans to conquer the straights directly or via a proxy war in the balkans.

When England realized Russia's army and economy were growing 'faster than america had' there was a strong wave of pro-germanism within the british government. They even sent Lord Halifax (I think it was?) to germany to meet and discuss an Entente and end to disagreements abroad.

Gray however blocked the effort for understanding with Germany and let the opportunity slip away pretending he never heard of the whole thing.

Why did he do this?

1. he had made commitments to both Russia and England and was more or less going to lose office which was based around conservative support if he flip flopped. He also made commitments to France that were a de facto alliance and had secured Egpyt from French pressure.

In his mind appeasing a ever belligerent Russia was better than taking an opposing position of containing Russia via threat from Germany.

The Kaiser, reminder, was entirely pro-british, and called a war with Britian 'unthinkable'.

He also pushed hard for entente with england, proposing...

Holwig was making every effort to bring about entente with England (eventually blocked by gray).

he proposed ending the naval race and German recognition of British superiority in exchange for British neutrality in a war in which Germany could not be said to be the aggressor.

Gray rejected this on the basis that Germany was not even close to competing in the naval race and Britian would not give concession (neutrality) in exchange for nothing (german naval production cessation).

The Eternal Anglo made his Empire on trade and economic/industrial superiority. This was being threatened (and in some cases starting to be surpassed) by the Germans which was a big no-no for the Anglo.

>create the apparatus and conditions by which the reich will be created and destroyed
>lauded anyway

Germans sperging about the eternal anglo

ok. Churchill.

You fucking retarded? The whole british conservative party wanted war with Germany

>Willy was entirely pro-brit
uhmm sweetie

Brits didn't want to.

>Ultimately I think its the Bongs (albeit conservative) Liberal tradition that pushed them away from the staunchly Traditional conservative Germs and into the Arms of the Liberal Frogs
No, the French were basically going through a new government every few years by that point and as the Fashoda Incident proved they weren't really shit at the time in comparison to the Brits. Better to ally with them and product their economic/colonial interests in Africa. The same mindset would lead to their allying with the Russians after the Russo-Japanese War, just replace Africa with Asia.

English industry gained them economic superiority in Europe and German industry was threatening that in addition to the Brits in general (well the ones in charge of policymaking anyway) being incredibly Germanophobic which likely played into the first one. It was the same mindset that lead to "Japan is going to take over the world" in the 1980s and currently "China is going to take over the world".

So 90% of Veeky Forums?

do you know where you are?

>this autistic faggot literally had to cosplay every fucking thing he did

You have autism.

Because Britain viewed Germany as a more of threat to the European balance of power than Britain's traditional enemy, France. Germany viewed Britain as a threat because she could hinder Germany's acquisition of colonies. Countries that view each other as threats have a hard time becoming allies.

The enmity between France and Britain goes way, way back but Britain and France were different kinds of powers: Britain was a naval power and France was a land power. Britain usually sought some kind of continental ally to threaten or counterbalance France on land. France, not being a strong naval power, tried to ally itself with a nation or nations to assemble enough naval power to threaten Britain. Britain had more strategic choices in Europe than France though, having a covey of Germanic states to pick and choose amongst.

Britain's grand strategy of having a Germanic partner worked well against ancien régime France, revolutionary France and Napoleonic France but the turmoil of the French Revolution and the ensuing wars kickstarted German nationalism and the project to unite Germany. Instead of Britain picking and choosing among German statelets and Prussia, Britain would have to deal with a united Germany that was quite possibly a bigger land power than France.

The tipping point came in the 1860s, when Prussia, led by Otto von Bismarck, winning a series of small wars and a couple of large wars against Austria and France, turned Prussia into Germany. No more statelets to choose from, just a German behemoth.

Prussia's defeat of France in 1870 and France's descent into yet another revolution and civil war signalled to Britain that its traditional enemy France had been replaced by an upstart continental power, Germany, and that Britain's traditional balance of European power game required it to become buddies with France against Germany.

The rapprochement between France and Britain was slow and necessitated much nose-holding by both sides but by 1900 it was pretty much complete. France and Britain had worked out colonial spheres of influence between each other. The spheres of colonial influence between France and Britain didn't leave any room for Germany, who was just as eager for overseas colonies but was far behind Britain and France.

Newly united Germany was bumptious and didn't mind stepping on toes in pursuit of "its place in the sun." Germany pissed off Britain by involving itself in South Africa and the Boer War. Germany pissed off the US by meddling in Central America and Mexico. Germany really pissed off France by annexing Alsace and Lorraine after the Franco-Prussian War.

The basic British reservation about Anglo-French reconciliation was France's all too obvious lust for a rematch with Germany in which France could extract her revenge for the Franco-Prussian War. Britain didn't want to be dragged into a Franco-German grudge match.

>Both Protestant
germany has a huge catholic minority, bongs are anglo-catholic with a large but variegated protestant minority, stop your stupid generalizations

you know how back in grade school there was "that kid" who was this nerdy smary weird asshole? You know, that autistic sort of kid who was homeschooled for a while, so didnt know how to socialize, and though trying to be the smartest kid in class would make everyone respect him?

well imagine if another kid exactly like that came into the same class, and they just had this autistic dick measuring contest that ultimately resulted in them both spazzing the fuck out. Thats basically what happened.

>implying willy had any control over foreign policy by 1908
>implying you didn't just disprove your own point by telling us that grey had political and de facto alliance (French) commitments that he wasn't willing to break for personal and party reasons.
>implying there weren't alternative events like the agadir crisis that showed germany to be menacing
>implying hollweg had a total monopoly on foreign policy or military policy

>Anglo-Catholic

>what is the oxford movement
>what is the stagnation of the dissenter protestant movement after a century of growth in the 19th century that took advantage of industrialization

The Oxford movement was a (failed) attempt at reinterpreting Anglicanism. The U.K. is undeniably and unequivocally a Protestant nation. Please keep your papist fan fictions in Rome.

German ideological autism would almost be adorable, if not for the fact that they keep tearing the world apart with it.

no. even if the oxford movement failed, anglicanism since the restoration of 1660 (or even the elizabethan settlement of 1559 and its ideological proponents writing in the 1580s and 1590s) is more catholic than protestant and is only "non catholic" to the extent that the church of england anti-roman/papal hostility, a trait that is a product of historic conditions

was born out of anti-roman hostility*

Pomp & ceremony =/= Catholic. You're moving the goal posts. Just because a church has many of the same trappings of its parent organization does not mean it is one and the same. There are clear ideological differences between Catholicism and """"""""Anglo-Catholicism"""""""""

>You're moving the goal posts.
I did. But that's because I can't say that anglo-catholicism was a failed movement. Afaik it is still an influential idea, even though it didn't bear out in practice. The thing about anglicanism is that it is highly flexible and accommodating, so to say one strain of it is purer than the other is not true. The truth is probably that there is a spectrum of opinion and practice that cannot be pinned down precisely.

>Just because a church has many of the same trappings of its parent organization does not mean it is one and the same.
ecclesiology is very important and in english history was a litmus test for whether one had catholic tendencies or not. in fact, it played out historically that episcopalians in the 17th century did, in fact, have secretly catholic views if not open sympathy for the roman church.

> There are clear ideological differences between Catholicism and """"""""Anglo-Catholicism"""""""""
which are? i ask seriously

Gray abandoned the balance of power policy by 1913. This is clear from his memorandum where he outlines that Russia wanted a Balkan crisis that would lead to European general war. He already was overestimating Russian power and concluded that security thru a strong entente was better than Balance of power

I meant Bateman Holwog not silly. Besides the British didn’t consider Germany aggressive in agedir and thought the French were being unreasonable but yet again concerns about Russian east were again over ruling the perceived French misbehavior.

Envy. Weltpolitik firmly established Germany's obsession with trying to break the French and British colonial hegemony.

Oh, and Wilhelm was a sperg with a fucked up arm

I think he means in terms of growth. The Germans were the only accelerating at a comparable rate to the U.S. at the time, and even then, they were lagging behind

ITT: Ayo, if it wasn't for the hunz we would be haven wakandaz n shieet. Gib vibranium ships

Proofs, this isn’t ww2

Yep it’s from the daily telegraph interview
That’s one of the reasons it can still run at a loss because of how much they made that day
The guy you’re responding to
Japan was a british ally so irregardless you’re hurting british interests
Everyone knew of the 2 + 3 strategy Britain had, and that it was the wealthiest empire so only an autist would complain and try a naval race (which Germany later did because fucking George taking Nicky from me)

>germs this
No the Junckers were this and that, enforcing their will upon the other Germanic states, the king of Bavaria pushed for an elective monarchy so he could become emperor, kick out the Junckers and bring peace to Europe
England allied France because they would guarantee each other’s colonies and wanted to stop German expansion into the Low Countries or unifying with both britisin and Frances old ally Austria although now with a cancer attached

Gray was inherently anti-German, Eire Crowe as well. Gray pushed pro-German diplomats out of their offices, austrasized Haldanes tries to sooth relations with Germany and held onto an alliance with Russia despite it being extremely problematic.

He was in favour of going to war with Germany on the French side as early as the first Morocco-crisis, while most of the cabinet and public were trying to maintain neutral.

He made a de-facto military agreement with France and didn't even tell the prime-minister. The fact, that Britain had to be involved in the First World war due to French ships securing the channel was only realized by the cabinet during the late July crisis.

>July crisis
>marching into someone else’s landed after they retreated is good
>staying in Belgium after you agree to their neutrality and indepdence