/fraud/

hi i making my first cycle
1000mg test-e
400mg deca
400mg tren
50 dbol
20 week
what training programme do i use?

>test e
>10 weeks
>500mg once a week
>not 250mg twice a week
do your research dumbass

AUTISM

Sheiko, all the cycles, at once

This is reasonable

thanks

i swear on me queer mate, this is b8 100%

Anyone got progress pics of a beginner that decides to take his first cycle early on?

Most likely not. I know you have s habit of calling literally everything you don't agree with bait, and it's probably some weird European tick; but most on Veeky Forums are actually stupid enough to think this is a good idea.

You overestimate your audience.

You think THIS is retarded and dumb just like i do. so why am i weird.

>you overestimate your audience

what did he mean by this

i can tell you that 2 of my non-lifting friends started taking roids at the same time they started lifting.

Both of them look absolutely awful.

>Both of them look absolutely awful.
Please elaborate, why?
Also, any chance you can post pictures that are cropped and you block the face?

i dont have pictures of them.

Why, because they dont have any muscle maturity. Muscles not only take time to grow in size, but also need alot of time to get a nice and asthetic shape. And my friends muscle groups are shapeless, they just increased in size.

Obviously steroids will speed up the process of muscle maturity, but if you just started lifting and want to get on roids, dont expect much.

Unless you go full retard like this why you shouldnt

I gotta say man, tren looks fucking DIRTY. You can tell just by looking at it that it's some serious shit. That pale yellow rusty nail color...

how big can someone get on just 500mg test-e?

this big

Apparently someone doesn't work any kind of hard labour
One of two that we got.
If I didn't have two injections left on my blast I probably would heat it up but I was just a but curious to what causes this. My last vial did it as well but the other three have been fine.

>yellow rusty nail

Rust tends to be red, friendo.

>Why, because they dont have any muscle maturity. Muscles not only take time to grow in size, but also need alot of time to get a nice and asthetic shape. And my friends muscle groups are shapeless, they just increased in size.

From a biological standpoint that makes zero sense. Muscle maturity is also not even a properly coined term, and has no proper scientific definition.

Let's assume someone does a pure Test cycle (Like most people do at first)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2917954
>Testosterone increased muscle protein synthesis in all subjects (27% mean increase, P less than 0.05).
>Muscle morphometry showed no significant increase in muscle fiber diameter.

Muscle fibers don't just "Get bigger" when you utilize testosterone.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140
>Hormones, especially insulin and testosterone, have important roles as regulators of muscle protein synthesis and muscle hypertrophy

Increased testosterone makes your body spend more on muscle protein synthesis, and it is no different than normal muscle growth.

So overall,
If a Newfriend felt so inclined to begin early on, they just need to eat properly and exercise reasonably. Testosterone just gives them more bang for your buck.

I'd almost say if you start juicing up with anything you can get your hands on at first, then you are opening Pandora's box to having an ugly body.

how???

wew one way to go autistic about something as simple as the shape of your muscles

>Muscle fibers don't just "Get bigger" when you utilize testosterone.
literally what i said

> it is no different than normal muscle growth.
yes, has anyone ever denied that?

My point still stands. A bicep that has been trained for 2 years has a better, more asthetic shape than a biceps that reached the same size with steroids, but has only been trained for 4 months.

And yes, testosterone would only help with "shape". Im just telling this user that he shouldnt expect much from 16 weeks of test if he just started lifting.

w/r/t protein synthesis, does anyone have an actual SCIENTIFIC ANSWER to whether it means enhanced lifters need more protein or can do more with less protein?

all I have is broscience to go by and I'd like an official answer

Ive worked hard labor and my nails never get like that, its hygeine.

>My point still stands. A bicep that has been trained for 2 years has a better, more asthetic shape than a biceps that reached the same size with steroids, but has only been trained for 4 months.

kek. get out of this thread

this post is so fucking dumb my dude

how can it be so hard to understand this basic concept.

lemme guess, murican?

>Doing research about injecting stuff into your body without professional help is autistic

>Point disproved
>"M-muh point still stands, let me just conclude something again with 0 reputable sources"

Hows that bro science going for you

>Im just telling this user that he shouldnt expect much from 16 weeks of test if he just started lifting.
Much =/= More.
Even then, your point does not make sense, wether or not there is a 'better time' to get on gear. If someone lifts natty to get to a point where they can get even more out of, seems silly, since taking test will get them to the point of even more benefit, faster than if they lifted natty.

Secondly,
nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101
>Fat-free mass did not change significantly in the group assigned to placebo but no exercise (...)
>The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass
>those in the placebo-plus-exercise group had an increase of 1.9 kg.
>The increase in the testosterone-plus-exercise group was substantially greater (averaging 6.1 kg).
>The percentage of body fat did not change significantly in any group
So let us assume bloat from the Test injected with no exercise
>Natty: 1.9 kg
>Test: 6.1 - 3.2 = 2,9kg
This gives us a rough estimate of ~50% more muscle growth for people who have not yet reached their 'natty limit'.

Disclaimer: I can't find a specific study, but I have a deeper understanding about muscle growth and diet (I used to study it, and I also still keep myself up to date). - I don't see why you would eat less protein in any case. But what a Test injection does is allow your body to grow more muscle fibers during rest, allowing yourself to utilize more protein in your diet (I.e. increased your protein 'cap' for benefits). So I would say just add more to your macros and you'll be good.

because it's not a basic concept, it's something you pulled completely out of your fucking ass

You don't have to answer questions you don't know the answers to.

>If someone lifts natty to get to a point where they can get even more out of, seems silly, since taking test will get them to the point of even more benefit, faster than if they lifted natty.

Yes obviously.
I dont even know what you are arguing about.

that thing i said about 4 months and 2 years.
If you cant understand that it just tells me you are dyel or just started lifting. Anyone who has a few years of lifting under his belt can see it on his own body.

>I don't see why you would eat less protein in any case. But what a Test injection does is allow your body to grow more muscle fibers during rest, allowing yourself to utilize more protein in your diet (I.e. increased your protein 'cap' for benefits).
It's not really about eating less, it's about whether eating more really is beneficial.

basically there's two schools of broscience regarding protein synthesis
1) it means it's more efficient, meaning you can do more with less. increasing protein consumed does nothing
2) your side; you can now use more protein than you could as a natural

I've been looking for studies but I can't find any that would confirm either. the closest I could find were actually more on the side of 1) than 2)

Why not 250mg twice a week? Everything I find says twice a week.

the problem with that is that you assume it's from time and not the size of the muscles. you're confounding the two and assuming that because it takes natties year to get to that point it also would be the same for people on gear regardless of much faster progress.

you're just spouting nonsensical broscience tbH

the only question i reponded to was with first hand experience, the best possible answer there is.

You guys are tiresome, its like talking to toddlers.

>he shouldnt expect much from 16 weeks of test if he just started lifting
>When you first start lifting, that people consider the period with the most rapid gains
>now augment that with test
>dont expect much
fucking retard tripfriends I swear to god

>If someone lifts natty to get to a point where they can get even more out of, seems silly, since taking test will get them to the point of even more benefit, faster than if they lifted natty.

I just told you me and my friends all have the same sized upper arms with the same amount of bodyfat you homongous imbecile.
Dont reply to me again because obviously you are too much of a dumb nigger to properly read.

Jesus fuck, i talked to some ottermode natty cuck about this a few days ago and even he knew what i was talking about.

Then stop posting idk dude

fuk wrong quote.

>the problem with that is that you assume it's from time and not the size of the muscles

retard

I like you bimbo

what the fuck are insertions

motherfucking "muscle maturity"...

also
>assuming that because it takes natties year to get to that point it also would be the same for people on gear regardless of much faster progress.

i literally LITERALLY said the opposite, stating that steroids would speed up this process.

Again, too much of a dumb nigger to properly read. Visit elementary school again i beg you.

make me big guy

If you have higher levels of protein synthesis you need more calories and protein, as repairing damage take energy and the buldibg blocks are proteins.

>Tripfriend got BTFO'd by another tripfriend
kind of funny desu

bimbo notice me

why do you insist on asking this when every time we tell you to split it up into two 250 mg injections?

Increasing NPP dose fucks body fat right off
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140
>Daily injections of 1 mg/kg of NPP for 10 days caused a significant increase in weight gain which was associated with an increase in body protein (9%) without affecting body fat
>...no change in body weight at 10 mg/kg. However body protein content was still increased (9%) whereas body fat content was significantly reduced (32%)

>Significant fat reduction but no body weight change, also means significant fat free mass increase

Tfw human eqiuvalent dose of 10mg/kg is 1.62mg/kg, which is about a 140mg ED dose of NPP, basically a gram per week of NPP.

I fucking hate you

>"You guys are tiresome, its like talking to toddlers."
>attentionposts worse than Crusader about muh balding and muh acne and how nobody could possibly have it worse
kek don't start m8

>having discussions about acne and hairloss and how to combat them is the same as whining.
>nobody has it worse than me
>i ever said that

dont make me kek

How much do you guys pay for blood tests, and how often do you do them

>it's easy to recomp on a gram of gear

No change in diet or activity, just a dosage change which dropped a lot of body fat.

10 days, 32% bf reduction? let me doubt the human parallels

I just measured my heartbeat and it's pounding like crazy at around 120bpm
An idea crossed my mind
I found an online calculator about heart rate and BMR,when i measured it the result was insane,like 10k calories or what

Note that i have this high heartbeat throughout the whole day since clen's half life is like days

What are your thoughts?

>A bicep that has been trained for 2 years has a better, more asthetic shape than a biceps that reached the same size with steroids, but has only been trained for 4 months.

This is literally completely totally not true.

>an online calculator about heart rate and BMR
this is stupid

>it has to be either 32% or nothing,cant be an inbetween value

RIP user 2017

Time to run 1g of NPP a week

Let's say it's shit,even then mistaking 2000 calories for example still leaves a bmr of 8k calories

trying to link bmr to heart rate is stupid.

Why?Faster heartbeat means more caloric burn,this is undeniably true

Was going to run 350 NPP with 500 mast for 6 weeks in October to see how I react to it so I might actually bump it up to a gram a week after reading this

What's the real honest to god risk if I don't take all that long off between blasts of straight test e at 500 mg / wk? Is it mostly concern about bloods being fucked (cholesterol-wise), BP, and left ventricle hypertrophy? By 'not all that long off' I mean literally hopping back on after 4 weeks at cruise after 16 at blast.

yeah it's lipids mostly. bp should always be under control regardless but it can get worse if you aren't paying attention to it.

lipids and lvh/heart disease in general are closely related.

you're not gonna die overnight, a lot of people just permablast, but you should really consider taking breaks (cruise). you're not gonna die being "off" for 2 months.

4 weeks isn't that short btw, it's very possible you could already have recovered, especially from just test

wait until I tell my 300 pounds friend sitting at a constant 120rhr because of how out of shape he is that he can still eat more food because his bmr (not even tdee!) is at 10000 calories/day. he's gonna be so happy

Yeah I'm cruising at the moment but I've been having a little trouble dialing in my AI and test dosages at the moment. Tried cruising at 250 mg / wk, my estrogen spiked and my dick was having issues until I added some AI. Then I felt my estrogen crashed from too much AI (likely not, just psychosomatic) so my dick was having issues again (likely due to being worried about having dick issues).
Essentially life was so much better and easier on blast, so I was considering yoloing it and hopping back on blast early. At least my dick would work. Maybe I'll hold off on that for now.

Alright guys, be brutally honest with me. I'm 3 weeks into my first cycle ever (test) and I'm already considering getting some tren Ace to spice things up a bit. Besides typical Reddit tier reasoning, is there any real reason not to do this?

Nah run just tren and worry about side later. Just make sure you are committed to pinning every day

>Besides typical Reddit tier reasoning
what he meant by this

lifted for about 3 years. Stopped because of manual labor job and lack of time. Wanna start again but don't want to wait a year to look decent .any advice?

>time for pin
>open up the syringe
>there is a noticable amount of fluid already inside

What the FUCK? It came right out of a new box of BD insulin pins.

On week 6 of babby's first cycle. I've gone up in strength but physically I look no different, what's up?

Reddit is almost exclusively bro-science and elitism.
They also love to talk out of their ass and like it's fact.
They also love to brag about mediocre or even non existent results.
Best of all, their advice is usually always shit.
They also have the mindset that Steroids are some kind of secret club, which is weird.

I think it comes from reddits general self-improvement flaw, that is that everyone preaches what other random people say, and claim something works to assure themselves it does because they are currently doing it / are about to do it. So they will just sometimes straight up lie and say something worked for them, despite not even doing it yet.

They are just the level above a youtube comment section.

Reddit is alright for sources though. Got some cheap ones with good rep.

Do your research, only listen to valid studies.
Disregard broscience as evidence, use it to know what you should study on your own.

Steroids are not that complicated if you got a basic understanding of biology.

That's free gear man, inject it! Its like when a hotel leaves a chocolate on your pillow.

>That's free gear man, inject it! Its like when a hotel leaves a chocolate on your pillow.

I was tempted for a second but then I remembered I'm a paranoid motherfucker.

im asking will i be good if i hop on? or should i like a couple months then juice

>roid use is a journey. Be patient. Complete your beginner cycle and include it with your next one
>NO, you're new to steroids and you need to wait longer to see how your body reacts before introducing other compounds
>NO, you're not experienced enough yet for serious compounds like tren. Earn your dues first.

Just retarded liberal reasons man I'm sure you understand

u talkin about r/steroids?

I ordered 4033 and 3303 for 60$ but I see it on the sarms site for like 250$. Did I get scammed?

Also I'm very excited to try it.

Iv had an allergic reaction to dnp, do you think I can meet another reaction to sarms? Just wondering cause it was very scary

what do the diets look like for some of the more experienced /fraud/ers?

why do you think the second one is wrong?

this isn't a meme, in 3 weeks you have no idea how you react to test. it hasn't even hit its peak in your blood yet, you haven't gotten bloods, you sure as shit haven't dialed in your e2 yet and you want to add a compound with prolactin sides amplified by high estradiol

do whatever the fuck you want, I don't care, but if you were going to that the right choice would have been to start on low dose test (like 150ish) for 5-6 weeks, make sure everything is dialed in right then add the tren for about 8-10 weeks. not yolo add tren on top of 500mg test after 3 weeks

but again, you do what you want, I'm not your mom

I agree with the first two, not with the third.

desu no i dont understand. but you do you

T. Redditors

> is there any real reason not to do this?
assuming you're using test e / c, you haven't even hit peak blood concentrations of testosterone - so you're just being an impatient fuck. when sides crop up - and they will to some degree - you're going to now be trying to figure out what's causing it which is twice as fun with two different compounds of completely different esters.
I'd stick to test until you figure it out, then build on it but do you bby

No, that makes sense. Thank you for the reasonable answer. I'll wait it out

good arguments bro

Current dumb suicide stack:

980mg Tren E
250mg Test E
400mg Mast E

To add or not to add 400mg EQ?

"no"

Remove everything but 250 test and it's perfect.

If gonna go retard, go full retard and use a dose of EQ beyond what women's physique locals use