In fact, the dumbbell version of the exercise...

I BB bench 90kg for 4 or 5 reps but struggle to bench 30kg DBs. That's not normal is it? I haven't used DBs in a while though and I'm going to see what I can do today. I hope to be able to get the 30s up easily now. Also going to start doing DBs more often from now on.

I bench 180kg for a 1rm. The dumbells in my gym go up to 50kg.

>Most gyms max out at 90lb DB's
>Can only press 180 max
nigger what

Firstly, I don't believe you, and secondly, if it's your 1rm it's not something you do regularly, just switch to bb when. Tbh you should just buy heavier dumbbells for your own use if you can

What kind of poor excuse of a gym do you go to? Mine has dumbells up to 150lbs.

Sucks to suck.

My one rep max is around 90-95 (pathetic I know) and I can do 34kg dumbells for 6-8 reps

wew, I can do 100kg for 2-3 reps on BB but can do 50kg DB for 10 reps, why is this? DB feels so much natural btw

375 lb master gym reporting in

my gym's go up to 200

>Much harder to progress on because of 10lb jumps which is FUCKING huge
>Also often rubberized in gyms and not metal so you cant stick magnetic weights on
>Hard to get into place, at least compared to barbells
>Use a lot more stabilizing muscles so you're better off doing more reps than going heavy like with barbells
>Pain in the ass to dismount, can tear shoulder throwing them down with heavy ones

I'll stick to barbell bench press, thanks.

this, I can bench 40kg dumbbells for reps at the moment and they only go up to 46kg in my gym..
I basically have to switch to barbell at some point

>giving a fuck what rippetoe says

It's dangerous, with the barbell if i completely fail i can at least rest it on the chest as a last resort while help arrives. With the dumbell if i fail the rep just on one arm i would be fucked.

literally the only reason to ever do DB press is because you dont have a spotter for your barbell bench

Without a spotter i fell safer with the BB rater than DB

>even rippetoe

nobody who actually lifts gives a fuck what rippetoe's opinion is, he's a fat geologist who trains the only population that responds to literally anything

Just drop them lol

How do you even rack the dumbbells? You walk with them in your hands, place them on your stomach and lie down? Then when your done you let them rest on your chest?
Barbell seems much safer, especially in the power cage. I understand it's easy to use lighter dumbbells as a complementary but to push towards failure with 5rm weights or heavier seems risky

>dude just drop the 2x20+ kg DB that you are pushing above yourself

That is literally what you're supposed to do. As long as either the Db or the floor is rubber coated it's a non-issue.

I used to do this but eventually I either run out of dumbbells, can't find increments small enough to progress, or have trouble getting the weight into position whilst keeping shoulders safe.

>tfw almost crushed my nuts with a dumbbell just now

Harder to progress linearly with though. DB usually come in 4lbs increases which means 8lbs total increase per session. Sure there are platemates and such, but they kinda suck too.

I have personally seen 135kg dumbbells, try benching two of those for reps with strict form and report back.

Sure it wasn't 135lbs? If like to see the guy that can bench 135kg dbs

No, kg. And nobody in the whole place could lift let alone bench them, BUT they had them should the need for them ever arise lol

>even Rippetoe

Nigga I do the opposite of whatever this fat fuck says

If you re at the point where you're dropping weights, you've dangerously misjudged your strength

>4.5 kg jump
>huge

Also why does the heavy engaging of stabilising muscles mean you should do more reps than go heavy

Post the rest of the paragraph, you dumb memer.

A 4.5kg jump is over 10% of an increase in weight most of the time, so yes that's very large.

People don't add 30lbs increment to their 300lb squat. So how the fuck do you expect to bench 10%+ more?

not that large though, unless you want to add weight before you're actually ready to bench the weight, you know you're ready to go to the next dumbell when you're doing at least 10 reps

Rippetoe, Starting Strength (3rd Ed.), p.145-6:
>The dumbbell version of the exercise, which actually predates the barbell version due to its less specialized equipment requirements, involves a greater amount of instability, which is inherent in having two separate chunks of metal waving around in the air over your chest. This is especially true if the weights used are sufficiently heavy to challenge your ability to actually finish the set. Most trainees use dumbbell bench presses as a light assistance movement, and never appreciate how hard they are or how useful they can be at heavy weights. They are performed on a simple flat bench, and the lifter has to take the dumbbells out of the rack or off the floor, get into position on the flat bench, do the set, and then get off the bench with them after finishing it. These movements are as large a part of the exercise as is getting to look at your arms in the mirror. Because dumbbells are not tied together between the hands as a barbell is, dumbbell bench presses require more active, conscious control, are harder to do, and are therefore less commonly done. The problem with dumbbell bench press is that the equipment provides its own limitations on a progressively increasing program. Most dumbbell racks are not graduated in fine-enough increments due to the expense of having twice as many dumbbells as most gyms have the money or space for. Plate-loaded dumbbell handles that would permit such loading are not widely available, of sufficient quality that they are safe at heavy weights, or capable of being handled without a lot of help from two spotters. And with heavy weights, getting on and off the bench becomes such a large part of the task of completing the set that the logistics are a giant pain in the ass.
>So, as good an exercise as the dumbbell bench may be, you will be bench pressing with a barbell, as the weight of history and precedent demands.

There, the misquote meme is dead. Copy/paste as needed.

Pretty much what Mark actually said, as opposed to the fake quote in OP.

t. didn't read the book memers

i read it 6 years ago when i was a clueless newfag, now i know better than to take rippetoe or his advice that seriously

>dumbbell bench is a valuable, useful exercise, but there are more mechanical advantages to barbell bench in the context of a linear progression program, so our linear progression program uses barbell bench
Wow, such shit advice! Total brainlet Rippetoe, lmao. I threw the book away!

This is actually kind of fascinating seeing which parts of the real quote were combined with fake parts to construct a convincing misquote. Like meme archaeology. [Meme additions]

[In fact,]
>the dumbbell version of the exercise, which actually predates the barbell version due to its less specialized equipment requirements,
[is probably a better exercise for most purposes other than powerlifting competition.]
>This is especially true if the weights used are sufficiently heavy, challenging the ability of the lifter to actually finish a set.

The best lies contain a bit of truth.

i don't take issue with what he says about DB bench vs. BB bench actually

my point was that citing rippetoe as an authority figure of some kind in lifting (>even rippetoe!) is stupid, other than his meme status on Veeky Forums nobody gives a fuck about rippetoe or his mediocre program

Explain to me how an LP program centered on compound exercises is "mediocre" for rank novices whose goal is to acquire raw strength quickly?

brief synopsis

1. insufficient pressing volume leads to early stalling for many people (look "starting strength bench press stall" and enjoy the 90000000 results this generates)
2. stock suggestion of deloading by 10% and working back up only works if accumulated fatigue is the problem (which it usually is with squats, and almost never is with bench/ohp) but does not work if it's just insufficient volume for progression to occur
3. low volume in general leads to really poor results for hypertrophy and doesn't build work capacity which will make transitioning to intermediate training more difficult than it needs to be
4. no periodization (we know periodization is more effective than no periodization for strength training, even for novices)

see strongerbyscience.com/making-your-novice-strength-training-routine-more-effective-two-quick-tips/ for how to unfuck SS slightly, or maybe take Mike Israetel's rec of doing SS as written until you stall and then switching rep ranges to 3x10 instead of 3x5 (in that way you introduce some periodization and more volume)

>you know you're ready to go to the next dumbell when you're doing at least 10 reps
This is incredibly wrong, and basic knowledge. Please refrain from living.

I appreciate the serious reply, but I'm not convinced.

1. I don't think it's a volume issue. People stall early because they're either not making weight jumps that are small enough, not eating/sleeping enough, or not resting long enough between sets. This was the case with me and when I identified my problem (not eating enough and making jumps that were too big) I was able to continue my progression without modifying the program (thanks to food and micro plates). If you've truly reached a point in your progress where none of these three issues are the cause of your plateau, then you're likely lifting enough weight that you're no longer a novice and SS is no longer for you anyway.

2. Deloading is worth trying once or twice before moving on from the program, which is the recommendation anyway. People tell themselves stories about why they're failing instead of ruling out possibilities through praxis. Deloading is a valuable tool in the lifter's arsenal and I've used it myself with good results.

3. SS is a strength building program, not a hypertrophy program, and we've seen studies that indicate lower volume/higher intensity programs are better at building strength than low intensity/high volume routine (Nippard has a video on this). Blaming the program for failing to produce results it isn't designed to produce in the first place is a straw man. That said, people will get more mileage out of high volume hypertrophy routines if they go into them with more strength, since heavier lifts x high reps = more volume, so SS is a good place to start regardless.

4. Citation needed. Everything I've read indicates linear progression is superior for noob strength gains than periodization.

>dropping weight on your chest
>versus just dropping your dumbbells on the floor

How can you possibly think barbells are safer

This is only true when you're dumbbell pressing DYEL weights.

Barbell benching in a power cage with safeties set at the proper height is probably safer than heavy dumbbell bench. I don't know why he implied barbell benching without a spotter and without safeties was safe at all, let alone safer than dumbbell bench. Barbell bench outside a power cage is literally one of the only ways to die in the gym.

It's fun until it gets to the point of risking your life every set. 125 lb dumbbells are no joke. I can do the reps, but getting them into position is sketchy as fuck, and if I were to fail to get them up they could fall onto my chest crushing my ribs. Or go too far and rip out my shoulder. If one of them were to slip out of my hands, it could fall onto my face crushing an eye socket or breaking my nose. If it fell onto my neck, it would probably kill me. Don't get me wrong, db bench will give you an insanely strong chest, and in my opinion it's the best chest exercise you can do. But at some point it just becomes a little too dangerous to push the envelope.

As an old guy I find DB much easier on the shoulders.

Last time I did BB with a friend I bailed on 185 x 10 at 7 reps due to shoulder pain. I can do 105 x 10 easy with DBs.

Just do what works. If you do mostly BB pressing I think it helps spare your shoulders to cycle in DBs every now and again. That and face pulls + pull ups from rings instead of bars.

So with no dummbells big enough you should switch to the superor superexercise.

1. it definitely is a volume issue, you get an average of 4.5 sets of bench a week and 4.5 sets of OHP (which is much less disruptive than bench for triceps, largely omits chest)
2. i never said deloading is not a valuable tool, just that it's not being applied correctly in the starting strength model - it's a solution to the wrong problem when it comes to bench/press stalling

if you can make more gains by deloading 15% instead of 10% and adding more volume, why would you ditch the program?
3. strength and hypertrophy are not mutually exclusive, in fact hypertrophy is a major contributor to strength and explains most of the variation in performance between trained powerlifters

strongerbyscience.com/powerlifters-should-train-more-like-bodybuilders/

muscle cross sectional area is a key factor in strength, so even novice programs should aim to cause as much increase in cross sectional area as possible (and 3x5 low volume meme does not do this)
4.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15673040 meta-analysis of a bunch of studies

>As a result of this statistical review of the literature, it is concluded that PER training is more effective than Non-PER training for men and women, individuals of varying training backgrounds, and for all age groups. In line with the overload principle, additions to volume, intensity, and frequency result in additional training adaptations.

I prefer dumbells in the sense that the actual exercise feels safer and easier to maintain good form, but it's kind of annoying getting in position. Also with Barbells you can adjust the weight slightly, so progressing is a little easier.

I switch em around every so often anyway. Both have their positives and negatives.

also, let me qualify my not enough volume statement

tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640414.2016.1210197?journalCode=rjsp20

4.5 sets for chest a week, especially 5 reps each, is really nowhere near enough - a lot of people on SS will be familiar with this pattern - rapid (neurological adaptations) strength gains and then an absolute brick wall that can't be fixed through deloads, because you simply lack the muscle mass to bench more

yes you right fag

If you're not putting on mass doing SS, it's because you're not eating. Point blank. No volume scheme will magically give you muscle mass unless you're eating enough to acquire mass. You're guilty of the same magical thinking as fat people who dispute CICO and instead think this one weird trick (doctors hate it!) will change their body composition.

Like I said, if you are a novice and you're stalling early on bench on SS (we can be arbitrary and call it any time before 2pl8 for reps), it's because you're not eating/sleeping enough, taking too big of jumps, or not resting enough between sets. You mentioned the SS forums, which are filled with 150 lbs. kids eating 2,500 calories/day because they don't want to "get fat" and they're wondering why their bench is stalled and they aren't growing. There's a problem alright, but it ain't "volume."

For the rare, rare cases where more volume is really needed, hey, there's an entire section of the book devoted to assistance exercises and how to incorporate them into SS if you need additional work someplace. People failing to get results when deviating from the program is not an indictment of the program.

The main issue is progression.

Most gyms don't have DBs higher than 100 or 120 at the most.

>if you're not putting on mass doing SS, it's because you're not eating

you could be putting on much more mass with an appropriate dose of volume, with the same exact calorie surplus

>you are guilty of the same magical thinking

oh fuck off you imbecile, i gave you plenty of sources showing you that more volume is beneficial

>filled with 150lb kids eating 2500 calories/day

or maybe, instead of pretending that the issue is always undereating and being a shithead novice, you can acknowledge the flaws of the program?

>assistance exercises

assistance exercises are not as disruptive as heavy barbell compounds, and adding them is not a substitute for nutting up and doing more volume on the basic heavy barbell compounds

My gym has up to 200 or so in dumbells, I should be fine

How am i suppose to lift them from the floor to bench press position and where i rack them when im done?

youtube.com/watch?v=V7pVtXPYtGM

...

>SS is shitty for hypertrophy
We've been over this.
>Compound barbell exercises can't be assistance exercises
t. didn't read the book
>you can break the laws of thermodynamics by just repping it out
This took a bad turn. I'm out. Enjoy the rest of your day, user.

you're a fucking retard

you offered absolutely no counterarguments
>We've been over this.
yes, and I absolutely argumentmogged you at every turn, SS is shitty for hypertrophy and hypertrophy is a major component of strength

>t. didn't read the book
no, LTEs and dips are not as disruptive as doing more benching with a barbell

>you can break the laws of thermodynamics by just repping it out

at this point you're making a totally nonsensical strawman argument, I never once suggested you can circumvent insufficient calorie intake by doing more volume - only that more volume will lead to more gains in size and strength (which is well researched) given sufficient calorie intake

anything else you would like to get blown the fuck out regarding? and post a body pic too, I want to know just the caliber of complete clueless DYEL I'm speaking to

No you.

I already gave the counterarguments.

Your hypertrophy argument is stupid, sorry. Yes, muscle mass increases strength potential, but you CANNOT build tons of muscle mass by lifting bitch weight. Weak lifters are never, ever big lifters and novices are weak. Volume is weight x reps and you can rapidly increase the weight part of that equation as a novice running a full body linear progression. If untrained novices could get FUARKIN HUGE running a high volume PPL with light weight, everyone on Veeky Forums would be huge. If you truly believe the best way to rapidly build strength, STRENGTH, as a novice is a dozen sets of 10 every week, then I assume you're a DYEL who's role-playing.

You didn't read the book because it also discusses bench variations as assistance work, in addition to many other barbell compounds. You come across as somebody who's only ever read ABOUT Starting Strength instead of actually reading it.

You can't gain size without eating enough. Misdiagnosing an eating problem as a volume problem means you're a moron. Nobody stalls at 170 lbs bench press on SS if they're eating enough, sleeping enough, resting enough, and making appropriate jumps. You're DYEL if you think otherwise.

Fucking 125 in each hand.

I dont think it works that way.

Fucking 130lb bench with dumbbells is much harder than 130 with barbell.

with barbell bench it's easier to measure the exact distance the bar travels, your form is much easier to fix that way than with dumbells that have no indicator for you to see

you also can't microload your average shitgym dumbells, and sometimes you're just plain fucked when they take 5kg jumps between dumbells

Pause benching

Setting up properly to press heavy is an absolute cunt.

All the DYELs here complaining about Dumbbells being to hard to get into position once the weight gets heavy.....

If you actually deadlifted you wouldn't be saying this.

I DL 200kg for reps, so getting 50kg Dumbbells into position is not difficult. Maybe if you actually deadlifted you wouldn't have trouble getting heavy dbs into position.

So much for deadlifts being useless, huh?

>not doing both

weak little faggot pussy spotted.

You said that like getting the dbs off the floor is the hard part.

It's getting them from your knees to your chest while getting your back into a position that replicates barbell benching and is safe for your shoulders, I'd love to know how deadlifting helps you with that.

Idk i thought that too but something about the nature of how you fail a db bench makes your elbow collapse and the weight falls right into your body. Idk its happened to me thankfully i dont use more than a 70lb dumbbell for anything other than shrugs.

Btw i think shrugs are bad for your nerve endings

>implying this wasn't obvious

Do you guys really need a fitness personality to tell you something that is common sense?

>Stand at end of bench with the dumbbells resting on your lap
>Sit on bench
>Roll on back and move the bells up your body and into position

If this too hard for you then you are weak faggot who needs to drop weight

>Your hypertrophy argument is stupid, sorry. Yes, muscle mass increases strength potential, but you CANNOT build tons of muscle mass by lifting bitch weight.
This argument holds no water at all, because you can progressively overload in rep ranges other than 5. You may not have 315 on the bar as soon doing sets of 10, but you will have more hypertrophy and work capacity (and you would be able to hit similar numbers as someone using low reps after a brief peak using lower reps), and your transition to intermediate training would be better for it.

strongerbyscience.com/powerlifters-should-train-more-like-bodybuilders/

>If untrained novices could get FUARKIN HUGE running a high volume PPL with light weight, everyone on Veeky Forums would be huge.
The majority of big guys you see at the gym did not start with Starting Strength, and the majority of powerlifters did not start with SS either - they started with typical higher rep hypertrophy programming, and they ended up making strength gains just fine as beginners. Take a look at this beginner program from Chad Wesley Smith (900lb and 500x21 squatter, has trained IPF champion, has trained professional athletes, runs Juggernaut Training Systems - complete antithesis of Rippetoe, who had trained nobody of note and was a mediocre powerlifter)

jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

Notice how hypertrophy is a major focus of this beginner routine?

cont.

You're at risk of fucking someone up. You cant' control where the dumbell will land and how it will bounce

You can seriously injure someone if the free weight room is too small ( which it is in my gym

>You didn't read the book because it also discusses bench variations as assistance work, in addition to many other barbell compounds. You come across as somebody who's only ever read ABOUT Starting Strength instead of actually reading it.

I read SS and ran the program as written

>You can't gain size without eating enough. Misdiagnosing an eating problem as a volume problem means you're a moron. Nobody stalls at 170 lbs bench press on SS if they're eating enough, sleeping enough, resting enough, and making appropriate jumps. You're DYEL if you think otherwise.

I don't know why you're so hung up on this calorie intake thing. I never once suggested that one should not eat in a caloric surplus, or that this part of Rippetoe's advice is wrong. Misdiagnosing programming flaws (which are well understood, I am not the only one pointing these things out - I have shown you a former WR holder and the coach of an IPF champion, both of whom coach many lifters, who agree with my statements on this) as simply "lol not eating enough" even when there is a clear trend for progress in the bench and OHP to be poor relative to progress in the squat (who would have thought, 9 sets of squats a week leads to better results for squat than 4.5 sets of bench on average does for bench)

>If you truly believe the best way to rapidly build strength, STRENGTH, as a novice is a dozen sets of 10 every week, then I assume you're a DYEL who's role-playing.
The role of a novice routine should not be to get you to X squat as quickly as possible at the expense of developing every other capacity, it should be to develop your work capacity, hypertrophy, technical proficiency, AND strength and set you up for a smooth transition to intermediate training

and yeah, I'm just a DYEL roleplaying , you got me lmao

I got like 110 on bb and about 38kg db at 6-7reps for bench

wtf is that?

yeah but when you go heavy with dumbbells for chest or shoulders, you almost have to bounce them off your legs. It can be a real bitch

Not user you're replying to but don't forget that Mark said
>all boys will add an extra set of bench
Or something to that effect, I don't want to pull out my old book.

Guys I've been going to the gym for a while but can barely bench 45x2 barbells. Wat do?

45 for a double isn't bad at all man I can barely move the 40kg for a set of five.

[spoiler]I meant lb[spoiler] ;_;[/spoiler][/spoiler]

This isn't /v/ buddeh. Anyway. What's your bench 1rm?

Well I never go beyond 15 even if I've felt I could, typically I do 4 sets of 12 reps.

There's this new invention it's actually really cool, it's called

the floor

15 what? Pounds on each side of the barbell?

15 reps with 45lbs on each side of the barbell.

nobody said you need to push to a 5rm with dbs, but even at 5 reps it should be doable

uhh, yeah. There's your problem. Try going a little lower.

Just get some dumbbell handles you dumb fuck.