When did you realize Rip was right all along?

Someone redpill me on rip. I've been listening to SS podcasts a lot lately and what so far I like him. He makes the barbell lifts stupid-proof with his method of coaching the lifts and he has good points about how barbell lifts are the most effective strength training exercises. I don't really know exactly what diet he advocates, just that he advocates consuming a metric fuckton of calories.

nah

Like everything in life, be sensible about what you do. Information is contextual.

SS is a novice program. It'll allow time to learn the lifts and learn how to progress linearly until you reach a point where you need a beginner-intermediate program (weekly progression).

Do it, be done with it, move to the weekly progression where you can learn more about what stimulus drives the best strength results for you. Get strong, listen to Russian weightlifting Jesus.

People misconstrue his diet advance. For skinny teenagers, he recommends a high calorie diet. For overweight people, he says don't eat as much and definitely don't do gomad. Lately he doesn't speak on diet very often other than saying you need a caloric surplus for best results. No, he doesn't want every trainee to eat 5,000 calories a day. For more specific nutrition advice, he defers to jordan feigenbaum, who is actually a really good source of info. In terms of the lifts themselves, he does a great job of breaking down proper form using basic mechanics and physics to back his arguments. He won't give bodybuilding advice because it isn't his field of expertise. If you're worried about aesthetics, then look elsewhere. If you read practical programming, he does have a few passages on how to incorporate body building into a routine. He doesn't talk about it in SS because he doesn't want retarded kids getting their priorities out of order. I'm not saying Rip is always right, but he's definitely one of the best sources out there for people trying to learn how to lift.

his advice to consume a fucking huge amount of calories is directed to young skeletons and athletes, people who need lots of calories so no skinnyfat guys or neets
if you consider this it doesn't sound too crazy

After a few months when i was lifting more and looking better then 80% of the people at my gym

I like him to. He knows hows to get people really strong really fast. His routine seems to be the most effective beginner routine there is.

His diet advice ain't really bad. He says eat a lot, which you need to do. His idea of strong and the average person idea of strong might be a little different. Depending on bodysize his estimation of 4000kcal a day to get stronk is not wrong.

Newbs... Espcially if you are young. Do his fucking program and enjoy being stronger then 90%of people at your gym in less then a year.

From day 1, which is why I now turn heads at the gym benching 1.25 pl8, squatting 1.75 pl8, and deadlifting 1.9 pl8.

never
mike tippytoe is a fraud

When I saw Veeky Forums going out of its way to misrepresent him. When people go to that length to assassinate your character, then you're doing something right.

>guy with 30 years strength coaching experience
>some random faggot on the internet
I wonder who I should listen to

Lightweight barbell pistol squats on top of medicine balls, machine isolations, etc. Basically meme exercises.

SS is built for novices you retard

Rip doesn't advocate stretching or warming up with any weight.

Really, if you check his forums and see people complain about muscle imbalances and asymmetry, he just wants a video of you squatting so he can tell you how to modify your stance. He just tells you to squat slightly different. It's fucking dumb.

I did the 'warm up with the bar' meme for a few workout sessions and almost stalled the first rep on bench and deadlifts, every time. Second set was easy as fuck but Lord knows I was outta energy from trying not to decapitate myself

yes, and the longer you lift the more you realize how suboptimal his shitty routine is (assuming your goal is strength) for novices

>I now turn heads at the gym benching 1.25 pl8, squatting 1.75 pl8, and deadlifting 1.9 pl8.

So what do you recommend? I'm about 1 year and 10 months into lifting. Started with SS and then changed to TM. Still on the Texas method "running it through" phase.

1rm @ 107kg and 6'5 are. Tested a week ago.
>deadlift 242.5kg
>squat 215kg
>bench 145kg
>press 95kg
>clean 135kg

juggernaut method, 5/3/1, C6W, 28 free programs (nuckols), Sheiko, RTS intermediate programming, cowboy method (unfucked TM)

there's probably a bunch i'm forgetting

How is TM fucked? Just switched to it from SS. Took me a while to figure out where SS was fucked and change things up accordingly.

I'm still getting stronger every week though and I haven't started cycling TM yet. I can't see how those programs would make much of a difference at this point. What's the point in getting stronger every 6 weeks or whatever when I can do it in 1?
I do plan to switch to the jugg method when TM is done.

TM as written has a lot of problems, it's much worse for intermediates than SS is for its target audience imo

>low bench and ohp volume, this is a hallmark of rippetoe routines
>fucking retarded distribution of volume that pounds you into the ground on VD and has you doing next to nothing on RD and ID
>insists on making you peak at the end of each week and demonstrate strength gains, limiting the amount of volume you can do (because you must fully recover to not fail ID)
>myopic focus on squats and pathetic deadlift volume, if you're the type who gets a ton of carryover to deadlifts from squats you might be ok with this but if you aren't then your deadlift will probably go nowhere
>unless you require lower volume to progress (so you can recover by ID) or have very good recovery ability (so you can recover by ID from higher volume dosages), you end up falling into a pattern of slowly accumulating fatigue, failing ID, deloading and working back up and failing slightly higher than you did the previous ID

that's not to say TM doesn't work spectacularly for some people, especially for squat, but in my mind it's more of an extension of a novice LP (just on a weekly basis) routine than a true intermediate program

>it's fucking dumb
No, YOU are fucking dumb. 99.9% of the time, people don't have imbalances, they just aren't squatting correctly. Having your toes at the wrong angle or heels 2 inches too narrow WILL fuck you up. If you read the threads in the coaches forum you'll see them make small adjustments and it magically improves the lifters mechanics.

you aren't getting stronger every 6 weeks just because you go for PRs every 6 weeks

if you get 20lbs squat PR out of a month long cycle of some other routine, you match the ideal (very aggressive) progression of TM on that timescale

but 5lbs a week on squat is not sustainable for long, which is why you get into stuff like cycling ID rep ranges, so you aren't really getting 5lbs on your squat weekly even though that's what the texas method calls for - you are adjusting to new rep ranges, getting a little bit of gains, stalling out, and then cycling to a new rep range

Rip recommends the 4day split for intermediates these days. I've run it and had great success. You're benching and pressing twice a week each, with lots of room for assistance work like incline, close grip, chins, hypertrophy work, etc. And yes, the added volume benefitted my upper body strength. I think TM as written is geared towards people who want to compete and focus on squatting strength.

as soon as i tried ss.
by the time i found out about it, i didnt hit the gym for 3-4 years. prior to that i was training for 5 years with different programs.
with 6 months in i already made way more progress than with 2 years of training with other programs.
but i add some accesory work every time for biceps/triceps.
people can say whatever they want, you dont work your arms enough just with ss but your legs, core and your glutes look marvelous.

I have noticed how low the upper body volume is. I had the same problem with SS. The weird distribution of volume has seemed strange too. I feel like I only get a good workout once a week. The lack of deadlift volume doesn't bother me though. SS days whith squat and deadlift were fucking my recovery for the week. Do you have a recommendation for a different program?

>you aren't getting stronger every 6 weeks just because you go for PRs every 6 weeks
>if you get 20lbs squat PR out of a month long cycle of some other routine, you match the ideal (very aggressive) progression of TM on that timescale
I see where you're coming from. That's a good observation. But I think that would apply more further down the line.
>but 5lbs a week on squat is not sustainable for long, which is why you get into stuff like cycling ID rep ranges, so you aren't really getting 5lbs on your squat weekly even though that's what the texas method calls for - you are adjusting to new rep ranges, getting a little bit of gains, stalling out, and then cycling to a new rep range
I haven't stalled on the deadlift and squat for 1x5, not even close to it yet. But I have stalled on the press and bench for 1x5, so I switched those to 2x3 instead and I'm progressing again. I'm adding 2.5kg to the squat and deadlift every week, and 1kg to the press and bench.

That's interesting. I did a 4 day version and made worse progress, so switched back to 3 days. Maybe I added too much shit. What was your program?

Maybe I'll just switch to the 4 day split then. Where do you find the template for it?

It's not.
But it's brutal, and you have to be ready to switch to a 'progress every 2 weeks' variation once you stall.
Like with SS, the main problem is people staying on the routine for too long, to the point that it doesn't make sense anymore.

This is what I ran:

>Monday
Intensity Bench 5rm or 2 triples
Volume Press 5x5 or 3x8
Incline 2x8
Chins 3xF
>Tuesday
Volume Squat 5x5
Power Cleans 5x3 or 6x2
Supine Rows 2x8
>Thursday
Intensity Press 5rm or 2 triples
Volume Bench 5x5 or 3x8
CG Bench 2x8
Chins weighted 3x5
>Friday
Intensity Squat 5rm or 2 triples
Deadlift 5rm or 2 triples
Shrugs 2x12

You can change the assistance work to whatever you like. I chose to do hypertrophy work on volume Bench and Press, but 5x5 is also good. My only critique is the lack of Deadlift volume, but I was leery of overdoing it, and my DL was indeed going up so I left it alone. I guess you can do a lighter Deadlift instead of the rows. This routine got my Bench to 350lbs from around 260 when I started, so it worked very well for me.

>Rip doesn't advocate stretching or warming up with any weight.
This is a blatant lie and a dangerous one. Shame on you.

Pic related, an example of a progressive weighted warm up scheme, Starting Strength (3rd Ed.), p.299. He devotes several pages to discussing weighted warm ups.

I might give this a go. I'm pretty sure I need the extra bench volume. My bench is shit coming out of SS. On the borderline of novice and intermediate level shit. Meanwhile my squat well into proficient.

Rippetoe doesn't recommend TM these days at all for (most) intermediates, I recall seeing him posting this on his forums - he now recommends going to HLM

but yes I think the 4 day is a much better option because it addresses the fucked up volume distribution a little bit, and I think if you add volume to the ID you can make it much better (but this goes outside of "as written")

TM as written is dogshit for competitive powerlifters, low bench volume and neglects the deadlift which is a huge part (usually biggest) of the total

low upper body volume is a hallmark of rippetoe programming, there's a reason "starting strength bench stall" and "texas method bench stall" generates so many search results and you end up with so many people with lagging bench presses coming off these programs

also, one of the reasons deadlift fucks you up is because you've only ever pulled one maximal set of five a week instead of treating it like any other lift and using multiple lower RPE sets and more volume - another rippetoe program fault

for other programs see i think you are progressing with 2x3 on bench and ohp largely because you just switched to the rep range and are becoming more proficient at sets of 3, i'd be willing to bet this progress dries up very soon and your strength for 1x5s will not be much higher than it was when you go back to 5s

if your squat and DL are going strong, that's good, keep at it and don't fix what isn't broken

>HLM
Post some example programs or links bruh

bodyrecomposition.com/training/heavy-light-medium-training.html/

or from Andy Baker who handles programming at SS forums

bakerstrengthcoaching.com/simplifying-the-heavy-light-medium-system-part-1-introduction-squats/
bakerstrengthcoaching.com/simplifying-the-heavy-light-medium-system-part-2-pressing/
bakerstrengthcoaching.com/simplifying-the-heavy-light-medium-training-system-part-3-pulling/

Yeah I started throwing in extra bench near the end of my SS run. I don't really care to much about powerlifting though. I'm just working out to have fun and get stronger. Is 4 day TM going to be fine for a while or should I just switch to something different right a way. I kinda like TM because it still seems simple enough to just go and do without a whole lot of thought.

try TM 4 day out and see if it works for you, if not you can switch to some of the other options I listed

most of those other programs I listed amount to plugging your numbers into a spreadsheet and doing what it tells you anyway, so it's not that difficult to follow

Alright. I might try juggernaut eventually. It seems pretty in line with my end goals which is pretty much to look strong as fuck but also look like I play sports.

When I was stronger and bigger than other gym goers in way less time.

Even when I went to a black iron gym with freaks benching 4pl8 for triples no one believes I got to my numbers in just 2 years ( 80 kg ohp, 130 bench, 190 squat and 190 deadlift), and at 83kg bw.

Spotted the manlet

those better not be 1rm

Got me there, i'm a 5'7 T-rex armed barrel chested manlet can bench and squat no issues but deadlift outside of sumo is a nightmare for me.

They are unfortunately but that's what I get for being a WoW addicted couch potato my entire teenagehood.

thank your bench and squat leverages and genetics, not Rippetoe

Programming, my autism and my leverages all play a role lad, not saying rippetoe is the only way to get strong but it works and the guy isn't pulling wool over my eyes.

i could have guessed from your lift ratios

i'm the exact opposite and was deadlift well over double my bench when i finished SS

You know what you've done to me faggot, you've made me second guess my programming and now I'm going to end up probably changing shit around due to my programming autism.

Link to this routine pls?

Looks like an upper/lower

>i think you are progressing with 2x3 on bench and ohp largely because you just switched to the rep range and are becoming more proficient at sets of 3, i'd be willing to bet this progress dries up very soon and your strength for 1x5s will not be much higher than it was when you go back to 5s
>if your squat and DL are going strong, that's good, keep at it and don't fix what isn't broken
So what should I do then?

...

What did you do after this?

>ohp won't go up

Fuck, these numbers are great. I'm same height, 15kg lighter, but half of your lifts at everything. Damn... I should've been consistent with a strength routine.

>When did you realize Rip was right all along?

When I did the program for two months and got stronger in those two months than I had gotten ever.

Problem with SS is that people don't read the book and that people don't understand that they're only meant to do it for a couple of months to get that beginner boost. Even though it's so simple to understand, people do SS for a year and stagnate and get dinosaur bodies and think it's a meme.. They'd know better if they just bothered reading the book.

a doctor stuck in his ways for 30 years is a shit doctor
why would a strength coach stuck in his ways for 30 years be good?

you can replace the bench/OHP component of the program if that's not working, but the lower body programming is

greg nuckols 28 free programs 3x bench templates drop nicely onto a 3 day program like TM, you will have to put OHP on the backburner though

Strength training at the novice level hasn't changed

>3rd ed
>same for 30 years
Hmmmm

>he is very dogmatic pasta

I'm open to dropping TM for another program with weekly progression. For the simple reason that my volume day takes 2.5 - 3 hours at this point.
I'm looking at Jordan Feignbaums general intermediate, the 4 day upper/ lower split in PPST (that section doesn't provide any templates, rep ranges, etc though), and maybe a 4 day TM. Any ideas?

He's very dogmatic. He's never coached an elite lifter. His programming prioritizes lifting heavy weights in the short term over all the other long-term drivers of success in the weight room and on the athletic field (conditioning/work capacity being one of the most important that he misses). He has this idea that every novice who can do power cleans must do power cleans, even though this almost invariably results in a weak beginner doing muscle cleans with garbage form, and virtually everyone else agrees that jumps, throws, and sprints are better than power cleans for developing explosiveness.

He doesn't believe that machines and isolation movements have any purpose in the programs of serious lifters, even though virtually every elite lifter does these exercises. He has a decent physiological analysis of the lifts, but he thinks that there's only one good way to perform the lifts, when the reality of lifting is that form differs greatly among good lifters.

He has this idea that because beginners are able to add weight to the bar every session, they must do so, and if they don't do so then beginner gains are "wasted". In reality, because beginners progress well on any program, it doesn't particularly matter what program they do. The best program for beginning lifters is one that develops the full range of athletic qualities (strength, explosiveness, proprioception, conditioning, etc.), which is what lifters did before the Starting Strength craze took off. 5/3/1 for Beginners is a good program that does this. Coincidentally, this is also what the Russians do, and they dominate the U.S. in powerlifting at every level.

If I tried I could probably think of more problems I have with him, but that's probably enough for now. I did run Starting Strength, a long time ago. Thankfully, some lifters who were much stronger than I was set me right.

Feigenbaum*

>Freaks of natures do random shit thus it applies to a neet
Hey at least they all agree on it right?

when he made me squat 3 plate after 5 months of lifting eating nothing but homemade burgers, burritos and pizza for lunch

>why would a strength coach stuck in his ways for 30 years be good?

idiot, rip has changed alot over the years, not just for random meme reasons, but solid reasons

I mean, he's "right" in a very particular sense. If your goals line up with what his program is meant to achieve, then yeah, super correct dude.

Wtf am I looking at

The sad part is, this fag really thinks he's knowledgeable.

Which fag? Ripplekins or the poster?

I've read bits of this before...
Mythical strength?

Bump

Imagine looking out of your apartment window and seeing some poor soul contemplating blowing their brains out in their apartment surrounded by watermelons.