All my life I've been taught saturated fat is generally bad for health

>A is bad
>B is not A
>B is not bad
whewwww check out Bertrand Russell over here!

>if you think eating avocado's is unhealthy you are retarded.
>would need to eat an entire kilogram of avocado to get close to passing the 20g limit of saturated fats/day

Ketofags aren't scarfing down avocados and coconuts boyo.

>take advanced nutrition courses in university
>talk to numerous doctors, including cardiologists
>talk to nutrition professors
lmao no you didn't fag

lecturer looks fat and out of shape lol

Lustig claims that sugar is the root cause of most or all diseases of civilization and affluence, including cardiovascular disease, NAFLD and diabetes.

Lustig is also a Jew, a conman, a liar, salesperson and idiot though.

>advanced nutrition courses
>nutrition professors

lmao, how out of date is the stuff you're working with?

oops.

i eat coconut oil by the spoonful too tho

healthline.com/nutrition/it-aint-the-fat-people#section1
>all my life I've been taught smoking is good for you
>take advanced health class
>talk to numerous doctors
>tall to professors
>they all agree smoking is good for you
The same reason why scientists think climate change is correct is why this is happening. Nobody wants to be the "nutcase" who attempts to do what science is meant to do, cause debate

I studied health science in undergrad and am now a med student you sperg. I'm trying to unclog your arteries.

Veeky Forums has always been garbage when it comes to nutrition

>lol saturated fat is good for you
>lmao cholesterol helps you make test
>top kek protein intake for lifters should be 1g/lb
>muh chicken, rice, broccoli
etc

>there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648

Healthy fats reduce risk, but no evidence of saturated fats increasing risk.

who remembers when oats + GOMAD was unironic advice?

>i am uninformed and proud

Hurr A and B and C

He specifically proves with reactions how fructose creates dense LDL cholesterol which causes the blocked artery pic in OP. But you blame Saturated fats for doing that.

>amerifats saw the actual good advice of 1g/kg protein intake
>"BIGGER IS BETTER"
>why do i have kidney stones

Tell that to hurricane Harvey

>saturated fat is good for you

Dietary saturated fat is necessary and not evil

>cholesterol helps you make test

Dietary cholesterol aids production yes

>top keke protein intake for lifters should be 1g/lb

It's true, but we're talking about lean mass you fucking retard, not total body weight

>chicken, rice, broccoli

You mean good carbs, good protein and god tier veg?

Kill yourself.

>literally no better than butter

But why?

>prospective cohort studies

disregarded

surely you realise smoking is a bad example?

>1g/kg

Holy shit, never fucking open your dumb fucking mouth again.

...

well done, you fell for all the memes!

>he thinks saturated fat consumption doesn't increase LDL

Hmm...

Nah. Go back to the 70s and you'll see a bunch of doctors being paid to say smoking is good. Other doctors followed along with group think. Perfect example, user

Except in this case it's the sugar industry funding studies in the 70s to hide the fact sugar gives you diabetes

Nutitionists are mouse fucking hacks, and doctors have no training or experience to guide dietary suggestions at all. If you're fit, you can eat basically whatever, you will not get metabolic disease or athersclerosis.

>he doesn't know that 80-140g/day is plenty for anyone not blasting roids or training 3+ hours a day
>he doesn't realize that protein takes a significant amount of energy for the body to process which takes away from the body's recovery capacity
>he doesn't realize that carbs are much more anabolic and growth promoting once base protein requirements are met, and allow for more energy for hard training sessions
>never gonna make it protonfeg

>People still citing Siri-Tarino
Holy dogshit

What you don't realize is that Lustig is lying to you, and twisting the science in very obvious and cringy ways. You might want to actually study physiology and biochemistry before you let some turbo-quack Jew on the internet ruin your health with memes.

Also any high-carbohydrate low-fat diet, including high-sugar, immediately tanks LDL cholesterol to

Are you fucking serious?

>look at me guys I know more than people who have dedicated their lives to this topic!

So how the fuck do you know more about saturated fats than nutritionists and doctors?

>f you're fit, you can eat basically whatever, you will not get metabolic disease or athersclerosis.

Wow you're telling me if I'm already healthy I won't develop a disease? That's the definition of being fit you tard.

>sugar gives you diabetes
>morbidly obese people on a diet consisting of nothing but table sugar and vitamin pills actually reverse their diabetes

>dense LDL
>dense low density lipoprotein

academic.oup.com/her/article/20/1/101/632608/Tobacco-or-health-1602-an-Elizabethan-doctor

people knew it was bad for hundreds of years desu

I'm a biotech fag, I AM in the field. The saturated fats maymay was invented by the same people who said calorie restriction improves longevity because lab mice fed less then ad libitum lived longer, when this effect was actually just caused by the fact that ad libitum fed mice are all morbidly obese, so of course they live longer if you put them on a diet.

Plus, rodents don't even get athersclerosis without drug intervention, so their model for that is dogshit

LDL pattern B smart guy
37:00

That's just literally not true

>saturated fat consumption correlates with coronary heart disease
>therefore saturated fat consumption is bad
>well done lads, we're through here

Diets high in saturated fats, in conjunction with high sugar consumption (especially processed sugar) and an excess of calories, is what's bad for you. If you eat lots of saturated fat with minimal sugar and regularly exercise, you will be perfectly fine.

Caloric restriction studies have moved far beyond rodents; CR in rhesus monkeys have delayed the effects of aging. We're even aware of the cellular mechanisms that are most likely at play, such as reduced inactivation of the PI3K-mTORC1 pathway, so it's quite possible that CR in humans might extend lifespan (albeit probably for only a few years).

That's beside the point. You can't shit on the entire field without a fair bit of evidence m80. How many more RCTs need to be published before it's accepted as fact that saturated fat is bad for you?

Proofs required vegan.
Unless it was a significant calorie deficit I don't see how this could happen
Carbs cause insulin to rise, simple carbs cause insulin to rise faster, increase in simple carbs cause insulin to be high all the time, this eventually causes insulin resistance, insulin resistance is diabetes

I'm not talking about back then. I'm talking about the group think that happened where doctors encouraged tobacoo use

reduced activation**

Veeky Forums generally likes to think they are smarter than someone with a PhD. Why do you think everyone here says SS and PP are bad books?

>If you eat lots of saturated fat with minimal sugar and regularly exercise, you will be perfectly fine.
Absolutely not.
It's actually the other way around - independent harm from refined sugar has never been found without weight gain. Saturated fat on the other hand is always toxic at high intakes

"Calorie restriction" doesn't exist. When you restrict calories, you lose weight until you die.

>Carbs cause insulin to rise, simple carbs cause insulin to rise faster, increase in simple carbs cause insulin to be high all the time, this eventually causes insulin resistance, insulin resistance is diabetes
That's not how that works at all.

The "everyone says it so it must be true" meme.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZFsQ4SET2nw

you have to understand, people who have a bachelors degree like to think they are much more educated than someone who is not a degree holder. Even I was humbled on this site many times and when i went back in for a 2nd degree to college.

All lab animals overeat when given the opportunity. All they prove is that obesity is bad for you, and no fucking shit.
Rapamycin's been a dead end for years, which you would know if you weren't a layman faggot.
Studies of the population, IE, fucking normies, are incapable of accounting for the fact that two thirds of people are sedentary and fat, and most of what's left is sedentary and skinnyfat, and that positive dietary choices are tightly correlated with greater exercise frequency and lower body fat percentage

But what really convinces me, personally, is that genuinely active and healthy weight people just don't fucking get athersclerosis or diabetes

>leading medical experts say it's true
>roiding fags on an afghan tapestry weaving message board say it's false
hmm..

>doctors
General doctors are like engineers, not scientists. They follow doctrine, they don't make discoveries or know the latest studies. Most doctors think total cholesterol is a good measure of heart disease risk. In reality the ratio of HDL to LDL is the only predictor of heart disease. Doctors still get that one wrong even though the doctrine changed years ago.
>cardiologists
These guys are only slightly ahead of general practitioner doctors.
>"nutrition professors"
These people know less than doctors, I could literally shit out a nutrition professorship.

M8 my sister has a phd and assisted on a study about saturated fats for years but even she didn't know that the saturated fats meme was disproven by meta-analysis. I literally shattered her world when I told her and she looked it up. Now she questions everything in her field of study. Academia is cucked because apparently nobody looks at the actual data, they just believe what is repeated by the previous generation.

You're probably the type of faggot who believes anyone in authority. You probably believe Stephen Hawking when he said the atmosphere of the earth will be like Venus, 250 degrees and raining sulphuric acid because of man made global warming. Classic intellectual yet idiot. You only believe something because the rest of your peer group does and you subconsciously hope it ingratiates you with them, not because it is proven.

medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577

>All they prove is that obesity is bad for you, and no fucking shit.

Semantics aside, when CR first came onto the scene in the 30s, it wasn't obvious that energy reduction would improve health. Now, the focus is on understanding the cellular processes that lead to health improvements under CR and creating drugs that mimic the effects.

>Rapamycin's been a dead end for years, which you would know if you weren't a layman faggot.

I worked directly under David Sabatini, the dude who discovered how rapamycin works. You don't know shit about shit, especially about modern mTOR inhibitors.

>Studies of the population, IE, fucking normies, are incapable of accounting for the fact that two thirds of people are sedentary and fat, and most of what's left is sedentary and skinnyfat, and that positive dietary choices are tightly correlated with greater exercise frequency and lower body fat percentage

That's why we need RCTs that account for all these factors at baseline, not shitty cohort studies.

Oh look, we do have these RCTs! >But what really convinces me, personally, is that genuinely active and healthy weight people just don't fucking get athersclerosis or diabetes

They can and do. A healthy weight person is obviously at less of a risk, but healthy weight doesn't mean good blood profile, and large consumption of saturated fats is a good way of disrupting blood cholesterol and triglyceride levels.

>M8 my sister has a phd and assisted on a study about saturated fats for years but even she didn't know that the saturated fats meme was disproven by meta-analysis.

Go ahead, post a link.

>inb4 the Siri-Tarino paper

It will probably be de Souza, or maybe Hamley if he's really up to date

>docs tell ppl NO SAT FAT
>only healthy ppl listen to docs
>skewed statistics.jpg
>unhealthy slobs still eat SAT FAT
>and sugar
>and poly fats
>and cancer fats
>die
>rebel healthy eaters eat SAT FAT
>ignored
>docs blame it all on SAT FAT
>mfw

>i have no understanding of science yet i feel qualified to criticize it

>inb4 evidence that proves me wrong

kek, thanks for proving my point about you.

Here's another meta-analysis though : bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h3978

Stay blue-pilled bitch nigga.

>Now, the focus is on understanding the cellular processes that lead to health improvements under CR and creating drugs that mimic the effects.
Yeah, a titanic effor that produced dead ends and zero drugs
>I worked directly under David Sabatini,
Bullshit
You don't know shit about shit, especially about modern mTOR inhibitors
I know they don't do fuck
>That's why we need RCTs that account for all these factors at baseline
Swapping out parts of a fatty's diet has no implications for people of healthy weight. We already know why fat people get metabolic disease, they're FUCKING FAT.
>They can and do. A healthy weight person is obviously at less of a risk, but healthy weight doesn't mean good blood profile
Skinny fats can have mediocre cholesterol numbers and blood pressure because in spite of a normal BMI, their body fat is still elevated and their lean mass and basal metabolic rates are low. Lean and active people almost never have these problems.

>When did you realize Veeky Forums gives garbage nutrition advice?
Since always? This is Veeky Forums bro

>the (((medical establishment)))
>Veeky Forums
which one is more reliable?

>inb4 evidence that proves me wrong

You do know Sini has been thoroughly debunked, right? You're the one who's dogmatically latching onto these studies without a shred of critical thinking.

>observational studies

Fuck sake you're such a chump. First, they relied on food questionnaires. Second, the article looked at the data in 2 ways: most adjusted for covariates and least adjusted. Only the most adjusted data were reported in the abstract, yet the least unadjusted data showed a significant relationship between intake of saturated fats and increased all-cause mortality, mortality from cardiovascular disease, prevalence of CHD, risk of stroke and of T2DM. The paper has an overadjustment bias.

Here's de Souza's own advice:

>we should not ignore stronger and consistent evidence from better-designed studies that eating less saturated fat … reduces the chance of developing or dying from heart disease

is this supposed to be bad
if that was GOMAD and he's been progressing, he just needs to change up the program/add accessories and cut

Everyone who says saturated fat is bad will also tell you that sugar is bad. Why do fatheads always try to scapegoat with sugar as if nothing else could be unhealthy in addition to refined sugar?

That sugar is a poisonous terrible substance

It's really not, it's just consumed in excess very often

Anyone interested in this sort of thing take a watch of these videos that break down the studies used in this dairy industry funded meta-analysis. You'll get a better understanding of how studies can report misleading conclusions without actually falsifying data, and why you should be wary of people making claims that saturated fat is good for you. If you're not familiar with research like this, a phrase taken out of context can be used to make you believe anything.

youtube.com/watch?v=a-Tx9dCbv-g
youtube.com/watch?v=3Wi9dzkTiU4

Just today Salim Yusuf and his butt buddies at McMaster published their new epidemiological toilet paper in the Lancet with "valuable feedback" from de Souza. What do ya know - carbs bad, saturated fat harmless, low SFA harmful, low fat harmful! Also LDL doesn't matter, it's all about HDL and trigs! A whole new shit show to watch unfold with even lower quality evidence and another fat fucker with no background in nutrition saying carbs are bad and there's a conspiracy, because some peasants in rural India who eat white rice all day and have over 9000 deficiencies die earlier than some guy eating meat and eggs. No adjustment for diet quality, and obesity was measured by hips-to-waist RATIO

Link?

thelancet.com.sci-hub.bz/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32252-3/abstract

fatlash. people who were absolutely INCENSED that the industries pushing sugar have ruined the health of millions for profit felt that an extreme corrective measure was needed.

Are you seriously implying a significant number of people actually dropped cabs or even intentionally decreased their sugar consumption? The only thing in decades that accomplished that was novel sygar alcohols and artificial sweeteners

>independent harm from refined sugar has never been found without weight gain.

source

>When you restrict calories, you lose weight until your BMR matches your new, lower caloric consumption.
fixed that for you

Many of the reviews/meta-analyses that look at this specific constellation (healthy people eating refined sugar vs. normal carbs at maintenance) are funded by Cola/sugar industry so I don't like linking them. Easy to find if you look for sucrose reviews on pubmed etc.

90% of refined sugar is consumed from ultra-processed foods, most of which is also high in refined fat, saturated fat, salt, and low in fiber, minerals, vitamins, protein. So from a public health perspective it's pointless anyway. You don't see fat people buying bags of refined sugar and eating that, or at least using it in their cooking (protip: almost nobody cooks)

Sucrose is the same molecule in fruits and vegetables and refined sugars. Clearest results are seen in a few studies adding refined sugar to fruits and fruit smoothiest, and solid foods in general - no difference

So you become skinnyfat, great

Avacados actually have a really shit tier omega 3:omega 6 ratio. I dont want to be autistic but walnuts should be your only source of fat

>Easy to find if you look for sucrose reviews on pubmed etc

So post them

first time i saw recommended food infographic was when i realized 80%++ of nutrition information on this board is trash

>I'm not a nutrition expert
>gives nutrition advice

Hmm.

pastebin.com/CgTUgdUn

Also, you can look at the guideline papers for sugar by AHA, WHO, IOM, EFSA etc.

None of the big organizations currently see good evidence that sugar causes any metabolic or cardiovascular harm. All the "limits" are basically to get people to stop eating processed junk food, and to stop getting fat from overconsuming calories.

>i'm too stupid and uneducated to be informed about anything so I use meme arrows to passive-aggressively participate in discussions where I should probably just stay silent

hmm great website

Loneliness is a bigger health threat in the US than obesity or smoking. Sorry guys but Veeky Forums is worse than anything else in this thread. Get friends.

I'm not going to read all those. Post the "healthy people eating refined sugar vs. normal carbs at maintenance" ones.

>starting

>STARTING

God I hate when people shit talk SS like it's comparable to a body builder's routine

blogs.plos.org/absolutely-maybe/2017/06/28/saturated-biases-where-the-aha-advice-on-coconut-oil-went-wrong/
cardiobrief.org/2017/06/16/guest-post-vegetable-oils-francis-bacon-bing-crosby-and-the-american-heart-association/
medscape.com/viewarticle/882564
fathead-movie.com/index.php/2017/06/29/one-more-swipe-at-the-american-heart-association/

>some obese mom
>Gary "calories aren't real" Taubes
>Tom "calories aren't real" Naughton
Classic, transparent low-carb bullshit just as we like it

...

Bump

I'll just use the first link here to show some examples of how saturated fat promoters mislead people.

>n 1961, the AHA called for us all to swallow less saturated fat to reduce our risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD – heart/blood vessel disease and stroke). By the 1970s, whole milk consumption in the US was plummeting.

They try to make you think saturated fat intake was plummeting because whole milk, which contains saturated fat, became less popular. This says nothing about total intake from all sources, and cheese consumption in particular rose highly.

>The backlash against fats helped fuel the increase of carbs that in turn contributed to rises in obesity and diabetes – both of which increase CVD risk.

According to nutrient intake data on Americans between 1909 and 2010, carb intake decreased since 1909 and then gradually increased in the late 70s/early 80s until by 2010 it was just a bit less than what it was in 1909. Fat intake on the other hand increased continously throughout the century. The AHA and other organizations also called for people to eat less sugar. Maybe instead there was a "sugar backlash" that made people eat more fat? Or maybe people just eat whatever they want

www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/nutrient_content_of_the_us_food_supply/KilocaloriesandMacronutrientsPerCapitaperDay1909-2010.xls

These are the lies they try to pass off so that you'll stop trusting the American Heart Association, which makes it easier for them to get you to believe other dumb shit, while also trying to endear you to fat and see carbs as evil without any real scientific basis.

The blog author criticizes an AHA report about coconut oil and claims they left out relevant trials that are favorable to coconuts. These trials they list involved specific diet interventions that lead to weight loss in the participants, which would not be appropriate for studying coconut oil itself since weight loss would confound any result.

Most of the complaints are vague and ignore the elephant in the room, which is that because coconut oil is a highly saturated fat, it increases LDL. Whether the data is consistent about it being better or worse than butter hardly matters.

no science shows sat fat is bad

>caring about arteries

what ya wanna live to 100 nigga? get fucked

DAILY REMINDER IF YOU TAKE TWO GRAMS OF CAFFEINE ANHYDROUS TO THE DOME MERE SECONDS AFTER WAKING, YOUR BLOOD WILL BE SO THIN AND SO TRAVELING AT FUCKING LIGHT SPEED IT WON'T MATTER HOW INOPERABLE YOUR ARTERIES HAVE BECOME

*No, science shows sat fat is bad

being THIS indoctrinated by the sugar industry

Brainlet here i didn't understand anything in this thread

If i eat a diet with lean meats, 8+ servings of fruits/veggies, beans, low fat dairy and nuts will i be okay?