Reminder that Europeans would have been totally subjugated by the Mongols if Ogedei had lived for another decade or 2

your fedora is showing, /pol/ fag magapede

>Hurr, you don't think Mongols could have conquered Europe you must be from /pol/

Kill yourself you pleb

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Subotai could.

>second invasion
>nearly 40 years after
>after the mongols fractured
>when the mongols were fighting each other
>golden horde was at war with the ilkhanate of the south
>after every capable mongol leaders were dead for half a century

Most of the hungarian/polish forts fell during the first invasion only few remained at the time.

Mongol horde fought in plains, deserts, mountains, in snow, in rain, forests, swamps, and sea. Geographical argument is always the easiest to break since that's the stupidest argument there is.

What exactly did the Hungarians do in the meantime to prepare for a second mongol attack.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary
"King Béla IV took note of this, and spent the next few decades reforming Hungary in preparation for possible future invasions. He used a variety of methods to do this. First and foremost, he amalgamated the servientes and iobagiones castri into a new class of heavily armored, well-trained knights of the western type, where previously Hungary's defenses had relied almost entirely on wooden castles and light cavalry.[10] In 1247 he concluded a feudal agreement with the Knights of St. John, giving them the southeastern borderland in exchange for their help in creating more armored cavalry and fortifications.[citation needed] In 1248, he declared the country's middle strata could enter a baron's service, on the condition that the barons lead the men on his land properly equipped (in armor) into the king's army. Documents from the time state that "the nobles of our country can enter into military service of bishops in the same way in which they can serve other nobles". After 1250, free owners of small or middle sized estates serving directly under the king were included (along with barons) in the nobility. Finally, new settlers were given "conditional" nobility in exchange for the requirement of fighting mounted and armored at the king's request.[11] In 1259, he requested that the Pope put him into contact with Venice, as he wanted to hire at least 1,000 crossbowmen (crossbows having also proven a very effective weapon against the Mongols, despite the relatively small numbers of them actually deployed by the Hungarians in 1241).[12]"

>eurocucks were holed up in their castles while Chad Mongols raped their village women

I'm not a fucking Americano, stormfag.

"To cement his new defense doctrine, the king offered grants and rewards to cities and nobles in exchange for the building of stone fortifications. The reforms ultimately paid off. By the end of his reign, Béla IV had overseen the building of nearly 100 new fortresses.[13] Of these 100, 66 stone castles built on elevated sites.[14] This was a major upgrade from 1241, when the kingdom only possessed 10 stone castles, half of which were placed along the border with the Duchy of Austria."

IE they stopped being a bunch of shitty steppe warriors and brought themselves more into line with western Europe,and as the second invasion showed that was extremely effective when it came to fighting the Mongols.

what does prozac have to do with soy
>science is soy now

your brainlet is showing

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why are you talking about soy

>Criticizes someone for dismissively reducing someones post to nonsense fueled by supposedly base motivations.
>Ignores the fact it was done in response to someone reducing his post down to a single base motivation.

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>if someone acts like a retard we should all act like retards

>indonesia
uwot?

Kublai launched a large invasion of Java that got BTFO.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Java

at least 30000 of shubhuman mogols exterminated in hungary and they still think that could have won
a bunch of russian slaves is all you are now

Northern russian here.
Without a doubt, this dude Subudei unironically scares me.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Kalka_River
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Legnica
You just can't win every battle you fight, masterfully massacre all your opponents and laugh sitting above their still alive brothers in arms.
Please nerf and no more.

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>When you bribe half of opponents army to retreat, massacre the main army that stayed and then chase the bribe army and also massacre them taking your bribe back.
>When you surround your enemies to exhaustion and attrition, you give them illusion of escaping through an open a gap in your lines that you purposely created for them and then massacre them while giving deserters a slight hope to escape and then also massacre

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The Mongols avoided many stone fortifications, the walls of Kiev were wood.

The Mongols took losses from the crossbow.

Poland and Hungary were significantly smaller than the Holy Roman Empire and France or the forces that could be marshalled by the Pope from across christendom, from whom they received almost no assistance.

The Duke of Austria did assist and was victorious in skirmishes before the battle of Mohi and against a Mongol mingghan sent to raid and scout near Vienna.

Poland and Hungary have more plains more suited to Mongol cavalry. The terrain further west has more choke points which would limit the Mongol's advantage in maneuverability. The west was more heavily fortified with stone castles.

The Mongols themselves stated their purpose was to raid and obtain loot and they were disappointed by how little they found. Holding territory is much more difficult than raiding and retreating at the end of a campaign season.

The facts suggest it would have been almost impossible for them to conquer the entirety of Europe, from Ireland to the Spanish Kingdoms to Italy to the tip of Scandinavia, with just the 20000 they brought with them into Poland and Hungary. Even a dedicated effort with more troops and repeated invasions year on year would have great difficulty controlling Poland and Hungary let alone progressing into the Holy Roman Empire and Italy before being whittled down. The assertion "Ogedei's death saved Europe" is an ambiguous overstatement at best.

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These are not ideal circumstances to invade Germany with.

all the great empires of the world have tried to conquer europe
-achaemid empire failed
-sasanid empire failed
-hunns failed
-arabs only part of spain destroyed in france and in constantinople
-otoman empire only the balcans destroyed
-mongols failed in lepanto and viena

every one of them tried but all them were destroyed not even a 10% of europe has been in foreign hands ,europe is to hard to crack

>mongols failed in lepanto

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>the mongols were only effective on flatlands

How come they conquered China and Persia, both full of mountains higher than the ones in Europe?

"Europe" itself was consisted by a bunch of "foreign countries" which constantly attacked each others until very recently, and "Europe" is still not a singular nation or entity even today. Sorry to break your bubble.

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>The states of the Holy Roman Empire intended to bog the Mongols down laying siege to thousands of castles and fortified towns and fighting thousands of small sallying forces, rather than riding out to meet the Mongols in one large field battle as the Hungarians and Poles had done. A letter written by Emperor Frederick II, found in the Regesta Imperii, dated to June 20th 1241 and intended for all his vassals in Swabia, Austria, and Bohemia, included a number of specific military instructions. His forces were to avoid engaging the Mongols in field battles, hoard all food stocks in every fortress and stronghold, and arm all possible levies as well as the general populace.[33]
Good Luck.

>The city leaders opened the gates to the Mongols, though a unit of Turkish defenders held the city's citadel for another twelve days.
>On the fifth day, all but a handful of soldiers surrendered.
>The next day, the city's governor surrendered the city on Tolui's promise that the lives of the citizens would be spared.
> Emperor Li Anquan, still threatened by the Mongols and receiving no relief from the Jin dynasty, agreed to submit to Mongol rule
>Emperor Mozhu surrendered to the Mongols and was promptly executed.[24][27]
>Many Han Chinese and Khitan defected to the Mongols to fight against the Jin
>The city was placed under the command of General Cui Li, who executed the emperor's loyalists and promptly surrendered to the Mongols.

>In 1254, Batu Khan demanded a marriage alliance with Hungary and a quarter of its army for a drive into central and western Europe. In exchange, Hungary would be spared from tribute obligations and any further destruction. Béla ignored the message.

implying half of the
>h
>r
>e
lords wouldn't have defected to the Mongols so they can gain their rivals lands.

That image is so funny. Was he a great joker?

>constantly attacked each others until very recently
The britbong does not understand subtle differences, who'd have thought. European states and actors always understood that there was an "us" and a "them" (denoted by christianity rather than race or geography, but still), even if there was constant warfare among themselves. Whenever the whole was truly threatened, they banded together, as in the crusades.
>"Europe" is still not a singular nation or entity
And it does not need to be.
Also
>pic
Yes britgoy, you have saved your nation from the muslims by exiting the EU. Go back to sleep, we'll handle it.

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>Mongols only lost because they were fractured
Ah those double standards. Check out map of Poland during first, second and third invasion.

We have this thread every month
But thanks I needed another meme

Isn't it true. Medieval states were fractured all the fucking time. Attacking a fractured enemy while you had the good luck not to be (at the moment) means you got lucky, no more.

I've listed 5 different reasons. Not "only" one.

That’s not how you spell slavicised goturks

Mongols are so epic.

>implying Balkans isn’t ‘The West’ with everything else being LARPing Barbars
>implying Turks aren’t turco-mongols aren’t mongols

Possibly. However their priority might shift to China regardless. Once Ogedei died, the new khan changed directions and went for China. This means pulling the resources from Golden Horde and putting it in Chinese front. Subutai who lead the first invasion of Europe was tasked to plan/lead the Chinese invasion.

>implying chirstendom wouldn’t get at least ONE (1) crusade together

>crusades were a regular thing
>ignoring the excommunicated crusade
>ignoring how biased witch and heresy trials could be

>If you're not 100% peaceful buttbuddies you're not associated at all
You do not understand medieval europe at all, brainlet.

Very well
>nearly 40 years after
Not an argument.
>after the mongols fractured
So was Poland
>when the mongols were fighting each other
So was Poland
>golden horde was at war with the ilkhanate of the south
Because wars in Europe never happened. So let's continue, Poland at that time was on bad terms with Teutons
>after every capable mongol leaders were dead for half a century
Irrelevant. How do you imagine Mongols capturing Europe, when:
>In next few years fractured Poland is capable of dealing with Mongols
>In few years all their capable leaders will die off
>Few years was enough to modernize Hungarian fortifications and army. They would face that army and fortifications multiplied many times at the time of first invasion in they were to attack HRE. And they even barely won at Mohi.

Western Europe was like something the Mongols had never dealt with before. It was a very densely populated region covered in woods and rivers with large stone castles capable of decades long sieges. That's pretty much the opposite of Mongolia or Central Asia

>most of the horde ditches campaign cause they got bored and there was literally nothing in eastern europe to pillagw
>Shitload of silver and gold mines in Hungary
>Oh fuck they transported everything precious to castles
>Try to capture them
>Fail
>I-It's ok guys, let's go back and r-remember, we could conquer everything, we just decided not to

The question was would Europe be able to defend against a unified mongol + europe with no prep time.

You're trying to rationalize why a broken mongol would be defeated by a broken europe. I don't know how/where you're getting that implication or why you're arguing this point.

>implying they wouldn't have just teamed up on the sandniggers instead

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Mongol_alliance

>ongols couldn't conquer India because of Indian geography and fortification and they weren't anywhere near the militaristic level the Europeans were on at the time. Surprisingly centuries of fighting among themselves made Europeans quite capable at the whole war business.
>the unbearable eurocentricity of Veeky Forums

>they even barely won at Mohi
>Mongols wiped out the last of Hungarian resistance army (~30k-80K) and suffered only briefly (ranging from couple hundreds to few thousands)
>they wiped out 15% of Hungary's population
>destroyed half of the Hungarian infrastructure

youtube.com/watch?v=o7W1Ih5t4nY

No you’re the faggot that thinks the HREmperor was taken seriously by every other king

That rarely happened. I know of one case where Otto's first son defected to the magyars. Or where Henry the Lion ignored Barbarossa's call to arms. But in general the Fürsten followed the King (unless Christianity was concerned).

I never even mentioned the HRE. But for what it's worth, the HRE is a good example just how badly you understand medieval europe. The empire princes warred against each other all the time, too, but they likewise banded together against foreign powers (well, most of the time.) There was an understanding of inside and outside, even when the inside was not 100% friend and ally.
Any prince tries to ally with the mongols, he gets
-excommunicated
-formally revoked all titles by the emperor
-rebelled against by his own vassals
-attacked by all the other princes
-probably assassinated by one of his own soldiers
One hungarian king was a bit of a cumanaboo and got himself a major rebellion by his lords and a crusade on his ass. No doubt a similar thing would happen in the empire.

Who would win?

>hordes of mongols
>one castle boi

You think India was at the same militaristic level as the Western European countries? You're an idiot.

India was used as an example as to the Mongols incapability of fighting in rough terrain.

Get off this board.