Veeky Forums memes you fell for

>supplements
the benefits of something like creatine or beta alanine are well researched but they won't make or break your progression, other than that very few "supplements" do anything at all
>pre workouts
really amounts to an overpriced cup of coffee in the post-DMAA preworkout era
>protein
whey protein absorbs quickly, is of very high quality, and it's super convenient and the price per gram of protein is very low, why not have it around?

>if you're skinnyfat, bulk because you have no muscle underneath

I felt for this shit and wasted my time. Now taking the correct path

Mandatory.

>if you're skinnyfat, bulk because you have no muscle underneath
Actually worked out just fine for me. Will be bulking till I reach 90kg, and then I'll do some cutting.

@ 85kg/193cm ATM, and looking way better now.

well #1 issue would be all your dream men are on gear.

#2 would be think about what you re doing, particularly with DedL. what are you targeting here? Lower back & forearms probably the most, then quads. Visible gains are slow to come by with that, squats at least have a major focus on quads and produce more visual results.

these are strongman exercises, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? be strong & look greak? going to take a long fucking time natty my friend.

Was quotting

Keto.

i'm not saying it can't work out in the end (because i took this flawed approach and look decent now), but it's just not optimal from a hormonal or self-esteem standpoint to get even fatter

you might deadlift 500lbs a few months sooner if you don't have to cut first, but who gives a fuck if you look like a tub of lard when you get there and can't take your shirt off?

also you might end up falling into this trap where you're afraid to eat enough to progress (because you're fat), therefore spinning your wheels (because you're not eating enough) while also remaining fat

>protein absorbs quickly
Casein is a slow digesting protein powder, you don't lose all the nutrients within an hour or 2

>We are all gonna make it

"whey protein absorbs quickly"

this makes it nice to have after lifting if you really want to get into the details of nutrient timing (contrary to Veeky Forums belief it's not totally irrelevant)

also mixing casein is like mixing concrete, fuck casein

I don't see it discussed much here, but do people actually totally reject "anabolic windows"? There is good proof that pre and post workout protein and carbs can noticeably improve lean mass gain. It's not essential at all, but there is no reason not to if all it takes is a half liter of milk or a scoop of protein and a banana. It's a very easy way to make your nutrition more "optimal" for training.

>Do Starting Strength on a cut
>Rice is a cutting food
Stopped this shit after several days, thank fuck. What a waste
>Chicken breasts are the best lean protein
Im so glad I starting cooking and losing weight at the get-go. Or I never would have found out how wrong this was.
>Quick fat loss means youll have loose skin
This one literally does not exist. No one has loose skin, just lots of subcutaneous fat. REALLY common for skinnyfat fucks with zero muscle.
>Strength training will give you noticeable, visual aesthetics
Im still unfucking myself from this one. Biggest lie ever told. Strength gains for newbs are largely neural-motor related, rather than hypertrophic.

from what i've seen here most people actually do think nutrient timing doesn't matter at all as far as if you get some protein in 30 min post workout or 8 hours post workout

>>no one has loose skin
yes they do? you just have to be a real fatty prior to losing weight to be cursed with it

media.new.mensxp.com/media/content/2016/Jun/loose-skin-after-weight-loss-652x400-1-1465991756.jpg

>do 3 day TM from online
>squat and diddy consistently move up bench moves up once every 3 weeks
>say fuck it buy PPST3
>understand what training and Texas method are all about
>do 4 day templates
>bench explodes from 80 kg touch and go to 130 kgs paused, ohp goes from 50 to 83kg all at bw of 84kg
The more I lift the more I respect rippletits

SS bench volume is enough.

>Strength training will give you noticeable, visual aesthetics
No one ever said or says that.

the 4-day templates are actually redeemable because you can fit in more volume and you aren't doing 5x5 bench after being annihilated by squats

the TM in its standard 3 day iteration is shithouse for bench and ohp, no way around it unless you're just disgustingly talented at pressing

> 2 years of training for this

Do you lift?

SO what program then? Is 3x5 and 5x5 rep ranges a scam? Should everybody do 3x8-12 instead?

Btn is terrible for your shoulder health. One way road to impingement.

newfag here. whats the correct method?

I think the original TM works for guys strong already e.g the guy that introduced me to TM went on it after he did 5/3/1 and other lifting programs his bench was 155kg for triple when he did TM.

Meanwhile mine was 80 so probably not enough volume. But the templates in the book are pretty good I've been on TM 4 days for almost 15 months now and really like it I wish I was single minded like some guys and just put on bodyweight but I'm too vain and hate lovehandles

There are 3 types of fat- visceral (around the organs), intramuscular (marbled within the muscle itself, like steak) and subcutaneous (directly under the skin).
When you get fat as fuck, and your body runs out of storage option for fat, it starts packing that stuff directly beneath your skin- this is what forms that nasty ass cellulite and weird, Silent Hill npc look on TLC goons.
It has nothing to do with the elasticity of your skin. Your skin is only a few centimeters thick.
Pinch the back of your hand or your knuckles- how much skin did you grab? Did you see that shit snap back?
Ever skin your knee? Exactly how loose was the skin that pulled away?
When you reach for your midsection and grab a chunk, you are not grabbing "skin". You are grabbing stored FAT.

I should have mentioned "conventional dieting advice" in my original post- the "loose skin" meme is what happens when the focus is on WEIGHT LOSS and not FAT LOSS.

Ive lost over 100 pounds and have never had "loose skin" in my life. Its delusion.
All these dudes loosing "weight" think they have a solid mass of muscle underneath the flab and are baffled when the subcutaneous fat remains.
>"I-Its not celllulite! I-It muct b loose skin, hehehe. Im lean now, that must mean I'm muscular and physically fit!"
Dont fall for this, or anyone who tells you this.

You are new as fuuckk man. Like MINT, even.

cut to 10-12% while taking advantage of primarily neurological novice gains, then bulk at a reasonable surplus (400-500 calories) until you hit like 15-16% at which point you can maintain for a month, then do a quick cut down to 10-12% again

cut #2 will most likely coincide with the end of your linear progression depending on how long the bulk was

Depends on your goal, most if not all skinny fats are normies so they want abs. So the most common method should be cut to low bfat I.e skelly mode then lean bulk. The other method for people who think in years is bulk gain muscle and strength in your noobs gain period then cut since if you have the willpower fat is much much easier to lose than muscle is to gain.

Again no one says that they all say build strength base with SS SL or whatever in 6 months then go on ppl for aesthetics

As for the DL and squats are enough for core meme, what core exercises should I be doing then?

Ab wheel

almost took the bait

I can go all the way if I'm on my knees, should I try standing up?

...

You ain't hitting nobody anyways, why would you be ashamed of taking your shirt off?

Anyways, If you're not looking "built", you're pretty much bulking wrong.
I went from skinnyfat to "built" fat, but with shitty arms genetics (b/c they're long AF) but I can take my shirts off and grills and guys will most likely say that I look like I've been lifting shit.

You could try standing. Do more reps. Do them faster. Add resistance bands.

Do dragonflies

>girlfriend mentions that she sometimes sees this guy from work at the gym, but he doesn't look as strong or muscular as me
>she sees him the other day
>he's squatting 4 fucking pl8, i can't squat 4pl8 i do brosplits
>she said his shirt was sticking to him and "his body just looked like a rectangle"

she has never been exposed to this board or any memes about SS etc

the issues with approach #2 regardless of if the goal is aesthetics or strength:

1. novice gains do not end after a fixed period of time, they end at some level of strength and size relative to where you started - if you cut for your first few months, you will not be wasting novice gains, they will be ripe for the taking when you up your calories
2. higher bodyfat leads to a whole bunch of negative hormonal effects and lower p-ratio - essentially, your test levels will not be as high, there will be more aromatization of test to estrogen, and the ratio of fat:muscle gain will be higher

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html/
strongerbyscience.com/being-strong-is-not-an-excuse-to-be-fat-and-being-fat-is-probably-holding-you-back/

3. if you start off skinnyfat (let's say hypothetically you are 25% bodyfat, which is not unrealistic) and immediately start bulking, you might end up somewhere in the 30%+ range and will have an extremely long cut at the end of your novice phase (and it's during long cuts where you see the most loss of strength and size)

I was under the impression that you grew more skin to accommodate your additional bulk when you put on loads of weight, you then lost the weight but some of the excess skin remained and thus it was "loose"

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying this was my understanding of it. Is it wrong?

you're not growing skin, you're stretching your skin. think of a big fishing net full of fish, and how the threads get farther apart at the bottom, with the holes being larger. that's like your skin

but wouldn't your skin regenerate thicker again after being stretched? and either way wouldn't that stretched skin still result in loose skin flaps post weight-loss?

in some kind of idealized world it would yeah. "but wouldn't..." isn't how the world works. we were not intelligently designed

1-The person bulking will have a quicker time reaching intermediate level lifts thus more ability to build muscle.
2-while p ratio is legit it's not to a relevant levels for a novice or intermediate
3-the fatter you are the harsher the cut you can do while suffering lesser of a strength decrease so you won't be losing much strength or time, even your buddy lyle says this in RFL 2.0

If you give it some thought bulking while skinny fat is just asking for it. Higher weight is asking for more health problems, potentially damage your cardio and giving someone new to fitness a free pass to eat trash is a terrible idea. Cutting to a healthy weight or body fat will teach discipline and the slowed progression will force better technique. Putting a lot of weight on the bar before you even realize how shit your good morning squats are is a recipe for disaster

1. The person bulking will also be fat as fuck by the end of their novice LP and have to spend a few months cutting instead of building muscle, so this is a nonsensical point.
2. No, p-ratio matters regardless of if you're a novice or an intermediate.
3. Cutting from 15-16% to 10-12% vs. cutting from 30% to 10-12% is a huge difference, and not one that can be made up by "just cut faster lol". It will necessarily be a longer cut, and a harder cut.

I'm seriously at a loss to why anyone would defend this completely shitheaded approach (having done this when I started lifting myself), even Mark fucking Rippetoe tells people over 20% to reduce their bodyfat during the novice period. Skinnyfats should not be bulking and that's it, unless they just want to get strong yesterday and don't care about the impending long cut or going from skinnyfat to just plain fat.

and "my buddy" Lyle also says this

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

>1. First and foremost, for reasons outlined in my article Initial Body Fat and Body Composition Changes, trainees should not be starting out their muscle gaining phase too fat. Males should be ~10-12% body fat before even considering going on any kind of ‘bulk’ (fatter trainees can usually gain some muscle while losing fat with a basic recomposition plan; this is beyond the scope of this article). For a female, this would be roughly equivalent to 19-24% body fat.

but I suppose your misinterpretation of what Lyle says in RFL (thinking that a cut from higher bodyfat will be just as easy because you can go faster) trumps what he actually says, right?

>not wanting to be fridge mode
I bet you can't even squat 2pl8 faggot

there's a limit to how much it can be stretched user, after a certain point it loses the elasticity and you will get loose skinif you lose a massive chunk of weight

1-not really since your progress as a fatass doesn't stop immediately.
2-show us where it matters, or what percentage of test you will be losing out on ?
3- it can be made up by cut faster though but yes you will cut longer

Because that way works.

Hey man it's in his book not my fault you haven't read it it's free online check the refeeding chapter.

>it's in his book

It's also on his website, where he recommends you cut to 10-12% before even considering any type of bulking phase

Lyle McDonald, Mike Israetel, Alan Aragon, and Greg Nuckols all recommend this approach, but if you feel that you know better than they do go ahead and use your method

Maybe we are at an impasse here, my definition of skinny fat is a kid that is low or low normal bmi but doesn't have abs I don't think a 160lbs kid should cut first.

powerliftingtowin.com/destroy-the-opposition/

>Strength training will give you noticeable, visual aesthetics
But it fucking does.
Take it to its extreme to test this. What will the chest of someone who benches 2 plates for strength 3x5 say look in comparison to someone who doesn't train?
Are you dim faggots seriously proposing that lifting heavy for low reps literally has no effect on the bodys aesthetics? If so fuck off

DELET THIS

>literally has no effect on the bodys aesthetics
nobodys saying that fuckwit
training for aesthetics is obviously going to give you the best results for looking good
training for strength will not

>eggs are bad for you

You can gain and maintain on doing one single heavy set of lifts once a week
You can gain more strength by doing one single submaximal work set once a day with only one day off forever rather then the now proven to be archaic and dangerous 5x5 training method.

>eggs are good for you

Oskaar gets some things right:

skinnyfattransformation.com/

Not a lot, but some.