Sworn to protect the Emperor

The main problem is that there were way too many of them. Why do you need 5000 dudes to protect one person? Since, for the most part, there was no standing army anywhere near Rome, no one could fuck with the Praetorians.

They could kill Emperors willy-nilly because there was no martial force that could challenge them. There should have been 50 to 100 Praetorians, max. If that were the case, the Praetorians wouldn't do shit because the Senate or the citizens could easily mob up and execute them all.

For example, Baltimore has a similar population to that of Rome in antiquity (roughly 500,000). Still Baltimore has 3,000 police officers to police the ENTIRE CITY. Why they thought they needed 5,000 to protect one dude is beyond me, especially when many Emperors would be out with the legions waging war for long periods of time.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Police_Department

It took them long enough.

>anyone but the emperor himself
>wearing purple

>grind their graves to make my statues
Based

emperor: you guys are fired
praetorians: no

Is that a god damn throwing arrow?

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Are you suggesting Constantine wasn't wise?

I also love that version of the Praetorian Guard, black armor with purple tunics, but unfortunately its a meme.

yeah, get some height and the thing comes down hard

Plumbata. It replaced the Pilum

>"hey I'm sending you all off to fight the germans"
>"what? I don't want to do that"
>"well what are you going to do? stab me and replace me with an emperor that will let you stay in Rome and lounge around?"

Ceremonial at best. The concept of it goes like this basically. It has a weight towards towards the tip, it's tossed straight into the air or at a volley and the weight causes it to turn in mid air so that the tip is always facing down in the direct of the target. If tossed high enough, it gains enough momentum to be lethal to the target. Much like the concept of a shuttlecock in badminton.
Obviously not as accurate as traditional bow and arrow but much less mechanical work is needed to be used.

They were hardly ceremonial. IIRC late Roman legionaries carried 5 in their shield.

They may not be rapidly lethal, but that likely isn’t the major point. The swarm of them would have broken up charges, helped to fend off cavalry, etc. Basically just a lighter but perhaps less lethal pilum that you could more easily carry more of. They essentially served the same role.

>plumbatae are ceremonial
what did you mean by this

I figured this image was of a ceremonial wear. Could be wrong but they didn't go into actual full combat wearing this?

The guy in that image is dressed pretty tamely. Pay in the legions tended to be pretty good(otherwise they'd install an emperor who payed better), so they'd show off their wealth by dressing like fly motherfuckers.

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Lmao what even looks ceremonial about it?

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that was literally hundreds of years and dozens of emperors later

>That babyfaced, girl-hipped fag on the right
>That dude with a plastic musculata
>Thatstandard bearing nigga

The legion has seen better days

did this happen?

Best answer desu

Later from one point? All OP said was "why didn't someone disband them", they didn't mention a specific period. Someone did disband them.

Didn't the Praetorians kill a handful? Over centuries?

>limitanei are ceremonial

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Why didn’t an emperor just command the regular legions to wipe out the Praetorians like Peter the Great did with the Streltsy? Tell them you’ll give the legion that wipes them out a pay rise or extra time on break if they do it, and then sit back and enjoy the show.

They drank water from lead pipes

>won't stop murdering them
You answered your own question

Because they are an army in the capitol made up of rich men and senators sons with connections all over the empire.

Attached: roma.jpg (2048x1720, 741K)

lead pipes end up with a coating of calcium carbonate and don't poison people much, the problem was the elite were deliberately mixing their wine with lead to sweeten it

There was no lead "problem", the Romans knew that lead was toxic to consume and took great pains never to use it unless they had to

>Why didn’t an emperor just command the regular legions to wipe out the Praetorians
Again, Constantine did. The Praetorians sided with his rival, Maxentius, so fighting against them was a necessity. There were so few of them left after the war that disbanding them was more of a formality.

Attached: battle of turin.jpg (1196x1559, 548K)

If it's not dull brown or grey rags or completely plain, utilitarian metal, it's ceremonial to some people.

Praetorian guard was Italian garrison, not just Roman, though.
Streltsy were simply a professional military cadre, not Peter's bodyguards who controlled the Russian heartland in all ways as well.

If you get rid of the Praetorians theres nothing stopping the provincial legions from marching on Rome. Are you going to disband them as well and have no army at all?
The problem was more that there was a string of emperors who were either:
>really bad at their job
>illegitimate and so depended on the army for support
Usually when an Emperor was killed by the guard it was because everyone was tired of their shit, even the Praetorians.

>Start reading Gibson
>Emperor Pat Bateman gets killed because everyone is scared they'll be butchered next
>Emperor Soyboy gets killed because everyone isn't getting enough loot
and it just keeps going on and on for 400 years

>it was because everyone was tired of their shit, even the Praetorians.
or simply because he didn't give the Praetorians enough money

>Why do you need 5000 dudes to protect one person?
Because threats to the emperor were very real in the form of an enemy legion, about 5000 men. Your bodyguard needs to be an army when threat to you is also a small army. You've misunderstood the most fundamental aspect of the Praetorian Guard. They weren't even the emperors personal bodyguard, he had Germanic guards for that, for his day to day protection. The Praetorian guard was his personal army.

this for this dumb post

>Ceremonial at best
ah yes, one of these people, the guy who thinks anything with some decoration is ceremonial, and everyone only really fought in dull armour with no colours.

You don't understand what a mafia call "protection"?

Baltomore is a tremendously bad example of a well run city, just saying

There was law for a princeps. This just meant first among equals of the senate, but that was just a disguise Octavian used because he wanted to look nice

Gotta pay these guys, orgies aren't free

>lead pipes end up with a coating of calcium carbonate and don't poison people much,
t. lead pipe

>We come not as conquerors ; but as liberators
Based

I'm imagining a led pipe sitting at his keyboard now

>those hearts on that shield tho

>figured
>by a mere graphic

the absolute state of /his.

not a huge fan of byzantines but if there is one thing they did right is having foreigner bodyguards (varangians) instead of these niggers

>won't stop murdering them
>Why didn't a wise Emperor disband these fucks?
>Why do you think they killed so many emperors?

They didn't fear the gods - like modern governments don't fear the gods. Egypt had like one Pharaoh assassination in like 3000 years because they feared the gods.

Eternity in hell is a high price to pay for such a rookie mistake as thinking you can just go around murdering people willy nilly without consequences, much less Emperors/Kings.

youtube.com/watch?v=9kPLfY82F8s

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Tutankahmun and the last Potlemy, just off the top of my head you turbo pleb

Varangian Guards had more honor. Thus never killed there emperor who they swore oaths to protect.

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>Thus never killed there emperor

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Come on

Praetorian guard didn't kill that many emperors? Most of the ones who got shanked were dumpster fire tier Emperors who ruled for very short time. The major/notable Emperors who got the fate were Caracella, Caligula and Aurelian.

Most of the rest were minor emperor-claimants who died during year of four/five/six emperors.

Western front wasn't that bad of a place. Danubian front was the Vietnam of Rome. Germans were noted as relatively peaceful and uncoordinated people compared others.

>Purple tunics
Guess I'll only be wearing these to triumphs

Why did the ancients line up their pyramids to a metric unit?

>Tutankahmun and the last Potlemy, just off the top of my head you turbo pleb

Point is compared to Egypt, much of Rome's aristocracy was the scum of the earth.

Chimpanzees hardly ever murder other chimps of their same tribe - to God most humans are sickos because they so often find nothing deviant about murder.

>Why did the ancients line up their pyramids to a metric unit?

They didn't - the gods/God did to remind you they/it is really there in the manifolds of spacetime - as real as gravity - as I have overwhelming evidence of:

youtube.com/watch?v=RNF4RG2xNP8

Chimpanzees have their own religion?

When Veeky Forums is reduced to trolling. Come on guys let's keep it actual here. I've never seen an actual roman solider of any degree in this kind of attire. Not to mention the image looks like something out of an alt history comic drawn by a first year graphic design major.

Maybe fucking look up what limitanei are then retard. What's the thing on this guy confusing you? Helm is showing that he has rank within the limitanei, shirts like that are common among late romans, shield is a common late roman shield, however not sure if the design is correct.
Maybe do a quick google search about the thing before just saying the first line of defense militia is ceremonial.

Attached: limitanei.jpg (306x500, 68K)

>lol just fuckin Google surch it rtard!
There are other ways to aquire information besides the default websearch browser. But i bet your one of those kids that is too smart to waste money on education when you can research anything you want on the internet like the neckbeard basement dweller you are.
Obviously that's the first thing I did. It's an original image, reverse search is exactly as I said, am amateur divinart of late roman army.
Limitanei regulars did not look like this, perhaps a standard barer or high ranking officer might wear the head gear and if it was an officer there is a lack of superior protective armour, it's as if the uniform was meant for show and not battle.

I'm referring to this in case you misunderstood.

>every emperor they killed was a piece of shit that deserved it and it was ultimately best for the empire as a whole.
True heros

They killed dozens...

????

ah you're insane, that's good to know.

I'm not going to waste anymore real replies on you but here's also something debunking your ridiculous chimp comment:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War literally an intra-tribal civil war followed by an inter-tribal one

>your

Good attempt to call someone else dumb.

Not him but why would they not wear armour on parade?

Besides chest armour was the most expensive piece of gear and helmets the most essential. Look where he has armour is the area not covered by his shield. Frequently the grunts would make do without. I assure you this is likely what a late Roman would look like, you can throw your toys out of the pram if you want.

Holy kek

Attached: war.png (321x572, 44K)

>tell someone to do basic research by using a common web browser
>starts spouting ad hominem
also what this user said

because swords weren't allowed in the city of rome except for the praetorians

>Reverse search
Literally first thing that pops up.
>Look where he has armour is the area not covered by his shield.
Right and if you look, there is no leg armour.
>Frequently the grunts would make do without.
The helmet implys it's not a grunt
>also
Infantry men would be using the plumbata not an officer.

Look I'm not arguing against you, I'm arguing that I've never seen this type of soldier described or depicted. The image is not worthy of referencing and it all seems to be that if it was what a soldier wore and this image is actually scholarly, that the information used to recreate this was gatheres from a ceremonial attire at best.
You all seem to pick out the least important detail too, original question was how and why a plumbata was used which I described in

Forgot pic

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Legs weren't as attacked in formation as heads due to the nature of being in a battle.
Helmet says he would be in charge of a group of standard grunts but he's still one of them.
If you never seen a limitanei described or depicted why are you calling something you don't got knowledge on ceremonial?
And again why would romans make a common weapon like the plumbata a ceremonial thing? How would they got about even showing that off?

because murdering emperors was a legitimate form of government, when you stop murdering them and you get a retarded one then is when everything goes to shit

What the Fuck are you even spitting out right now
>legs went attacked
Foot injuries were among the most common next to missile injuries. It was so common that soldiers would wrap their legs up in bandages faking injury because they knew it would be without question in order to get out of marching or fighting.
>he's still a grunt
No, simply no.
>If you never seen a limitanei described or depicted
I didn't say that... i said I have never seen this type, referring to the image.
>why would they use a common weapon in ceremony
Again, not the weapon... The attire.
>why are you calling something you don't got knowledge on ceremonial?
>you don't got knowledge on
>Don't got
I'm done, you're going to give me a brain aneurysm

>Again, not the weapon... The attire.
you are the one who called the plumbata "Ceremonial at best."
>Foot injuries were among the most common next to missile injuries. It was so common that soldiers would wrap their legs up in bandages faking injury because they knew it would be without question in order to get out of marching or fighting.
Head injuries are far more important to protect against then the legs when the shield already protects against that and in a formation you can't really attack at them and most attacks are going to be coming over the shield
>he's still a grunt
He's in charge of a group of grunts user please keep up
>Don't got
oh we are picking out grammar now?
>gatheres
>standard barer
>am amateur divinart
>Come on guys let's keep it actual here.
Yes I will acknowledge I made a mistake with Don't got, but you are hardly one to talk.

>the attire
How is your bog standard Late Roman tunic and pants combo ceremonial? It doesn't even look that fancy.

Attached: Missorium Valentinian I.jpg (550x505, 72K)

>disbands the lethal praetorian guard
>starts the lethal trend of late imperial civil war instead
really makes you think

meant for OP

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why is god so shinny?

>I've never seen an actual roman solider of any degree in this kind of attire.

Nobody has seen a fucking actual roman soldier since the classic age you moron

The lord be pimpin

I amnot sure the Praetorian guard would be the stabilizing force you imply it was were it to exist further into the empire. I could buy it preventing a lot of claimants from getting in on it since they could pull an emperor out of their ass and sit him in the throne overnight, but then aggain, Rome wasnt that important then.

No I'm not actually retarded to think they were a stabilizing force on that level, I'm just memeing. But I do think it's neat that it was Constantine who got rid of them when he goes on to set a precedent for an even bloodier method of emperor making instead. I suppose at least you didn't have to bribe your murders anymore which was cool.

Septimius Severus did so.

Why did God do that?

Why do I need to be reminded that he is there when he's already there and I am him (more than you, definitely)?

>Why do I need to be reminded that he is there when he's already there and I am him

You have any evidence of that? Because I have overwhelming evidence I'm a god. Most of the west has been worshiping terrorism for so long people like yourself have been all turned into iconoclastic savages. You could have all the evidence in the world GOD has appointed someone King and you would just mock him as if you weren't accountable to the same superhuman entity as the King.

youtube.com/watch?v=qngHIkq1dNA

The earlier roman emperors also had foreign bodyguards.
Caligula for instance, famously deployed some who proclaimed Claudius emperor.
The praetorians weren't the actual people who guarded the emperor, that would've been silly.

they probably would've murdered him

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if you're a god then why can't you convince anyone except yourself? where is the substance of your godliness