Were there any actual physical descriptions for Helen of Troy? Was she even Greek...

>this is what snowniggers actually believe

She looked like this

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sauce?

She's so swarthy wow

She's not med, she's Anglo. This is what all Anglos look like.

She looks like cheddar man

I don't think she looks like a man at all.

Cheeky

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Story took place in the Baltic sea, not in Med sea.

What? Troy was in modern Turkey retard.
It was the Aegean Sea in the Mediterranean.

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Um, no.

sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baltic_Origins_of_Homer's_Epic_Tales

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Anglos are vastly inferior to Slavics

>nuclear engineer and amateur historian
Eat shit and die.

Schliemman uncovered Troy's ruins in the 1890s with signs of several "colossal battles" your pseudoscience contrarian bullshit proves nothing.

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But Tollense battle shits all over Med Troy. Hele being blonde and blu-eyed butifel woman, makes sense she was from the Baltic region.

More so than a Greek "butifel" woman with mustache and back hair.

I want to believe but I'm not convinced as of now. maybe future finding will confirm

phone posting is a bad idea honestly.

Here your pretty 100% pure nordic aryan princess.

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Except for one little problem. No Troy or any other city.

She was described as blonde haired and blue eyed with pale skin. Not your average Greek woman.

Keep in mind that modern Greeks are "whiter" than Greeks of old age, due to Slavic influence.

There was a battle in Tollense. Still nothing linking this to Homeric story

Many women were described like that (many goddesses had "golden" hair). I think blond hair were just uncommon and considered prettier. It's interesting because Mycenaean frescos don't show any blondes.

>man feet
DROPED

>But Tollense battle shits all over Med Troy.
No it doesn't.

His thesis is not confirmed by convincing archeological proofs: as results from the excavation, the Baltic coasts were populated by Neolithic cultures, using ceramic crockery and not bronze objects, at the time suggested by Vinci. The Scandinavian Bronze Age, in fact, began later.

Even on the basis that all Homeric localities correspond with a real place, studies have been pursued which show there are actually precise and systematic similarities between the world depicted in the Odyssey and the Mediterranean Sea, not only regarding the physical conformation, but even in the kind and direction of the winds.

>Hele being blonde and blu-eyed butifel woman, makes sense she was from the Baltic region.
Plenty of Greeks are blonde and blue eyed. Nords who use this argument to try to steal Med achievements have clearly never been to Southern Europe.

Italy has blonde, blue-eyed people.
Greece has blonde, blue-eyed people.
Spain has blonde, blue-eyed people.
As well as redheads, brown hair, green eyes, hazel eyes, etc, etc.

Just because blondes are less common than in Northern Europe doesn't mean they don't exist.

This is Greek socialite Marianna Goulandris.

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Holy shit, I guess Baltic monkeys and Slavs can't handle the fact that they were hanging from trees until the middle-ages before the light of classical civilization reached them.

Exactly. Her blonde hair was an oddity and something prized upon. More proof than they weren't Nords, otherwise the blonde hair would have been an unremarkable feature.

they're blond now because their ancestors were BLEACHED by nordics. you'd look like arabs if it weren't for """"g*rms""""

In North Italy and North Spain most of the blondes are descendants of Celtic original populations actually, keep crying, g*rm.

the lombards weren't celtic

>Plenty of Greeks are blonde and blue eyed. Nords who use this argument to try to steal Med achievements have clearly never been to Southern Europe.
>Italy has blonde, blue-eyed people.
>Greece has blonde, blue-eyed people.
>Spain has blonde, blue-eyed people.
>As well as redheads, brown hair, green eyes, hazel eyes, etc, etc.
>Just because blondes are less common than in Northern Europe doesn't mean they don't exist.
They are quite literally almost non-existent to being very rare in the "Whitest" part of Southern Europe, Italian Alpines.

15% of all Italians (North and South) have light hair, thus it is not "quite literally almost non-existent".

12% of all Spaniards.

4% of all Greeks.

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Map format.

(Greece here is misleading because the 4% blondes don't show up, but you can see North Italy is as blonde as France)

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According to the (((academia))), this is her facial reconstruction.

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Did you literally just copy and paste the criticism section on the wiki page for your counterargument? What high level of discourse.

Italo-Celtics were the first to settle North Italy. They predate the Romans and obviously the Lombards.

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That's what happens when you post wikipedia articles you didn't even read as a source.

Someone might quote a section refuting your claim, present in your very own article, and make you look like a moron.

>anime picture
>paint map

>source
Every time.

The jews don't even try to hide their hatred for anime anymore.

Anime was made by the island Jews .

Nips are honorary Aryans. They value honor and are hard working. Never compare them to jews.

Keep jerking off to 2d women, goy.

>someone posts an article a source of info for a discussion
>rather than reading it or even acknowledging that you're quoting something you copy and paste the section that you think most quickly shuts down the argument because god forbid you actually have to apply any critical thinking to your shitposting

I'm not saying the source is credible, but you're the problem with this board.

How come the Poles have such little blondism compared to Germans?

These paint maps always crack me up. All those pictures and fun facts, the fucking gene at the top right corner.
I don't care if this is true or not, I love this.

Autism maps, that's how. They probably counted "dirty blonde" in Germany as blonde, but in Poland it wasn't.

>Someone posts drivel from a pseudo historian they didn't even bother to read or investigate (literal shitposting)
>I actually bother to read the entire Wiki article
>Realize it's a crock of shit
>Copy and paste why it's a crock of shit because I can't waste any more time with it by typing
>Some whiny faggot comes an hour later to stir shit up for no reason to defend a shitposter
Fuck off.

Did you read the Iliad before starting this thread OP?

If you look at pictures of both German and Polish soldiers in WWII, Poles more often have blonde hair as opposed to their German counterparts.

Those maps are just some fantasies. The blondest people are Scandinavians, Finns and Balts. Germans and Poles are mostly dirty blonde.

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>I didn't bother to read the source because ad hominem even though this theory is supported by a renowned homeric scholar and historian at Bard
>I then call everyone who disagrees with me a whiny faggot which is demonstrative of my maturity

Why don't you promote discussion or demonstrate knowledge of shit you want to tell people they're wrong about. If you were knowledgeable about archeological evidence for the Anatolian site presumed to be Troy as well as knowledgeable about Homer's work you could refute this "baseless" theory in your own words. But instead you assume one person is correct because you heard it mentioned before and whatever challenges what you've heard is shitposting.

It's sad how close-minded you are and how little you seek to apply yourself to topics with which you choose to vitriolically argue about with strangers.

It's strange, your post is really long but all I can read in it is

>BAWWWWWWWWWW

The actual historical Troy wall has been found by archeologists, estimated to have been built during the VII reconstruction phase of the city, which has been identified as the Homeric Troy from the Illiad.

This is no longer a matter of historical debate or controversy.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy

Stop crying, post something interesting or stop wasting my fucking time.

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most Germans aren't even blonde

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>no longer a matter of historical debate
>cites a wiki article

Is this the extent of your research?

www1.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2003/troy030303.html
jstor.org/stable/506941

Did you change your mind about those wiki sources you copy and pasted without reading?

Not really, I tried to pick the simpler ones for your pleb mind to process.

You know when most people cite stuff they pull quotes. Just throwing a link up isn't a proper citation. What were some of the eye-opening quotes from these articles that really informed you about the subject matter?

Quoting stuff from links degrades the level of discourse, according to you. So go ahead and read.

Come back when you can actually refute my points instead of skirting around them like the assblasted child you are.

You've contributed nothing to this discussion.

Daily reminder that two Greeks gave the Slavs their writing system.

The slavs did not even have an alphabet before Greeks gave it to them. Some gratitude is in order, before you try to present yourselves as our betters, no?

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That "light" hair compromises of "light" brown and anything swarthy Italians would consider not absolutely pitch black. Also 15% is very, very low, even when brown is included (which always is, as far as swarthy Meds are concerned)

No, light hair refers only to blonde and red. Brown is not counted as "light hair", if that was the case Italy would be over 50%, as brown is by far the most common hair color in North Italy.

I make regular trips to Northern Spain and I would say 10% is blonde, mostly dark blonde with a third of the children being blonde when very young too.

You are strawmanning my argument. I said people who make arguments do just that, they make them. They don't copy and paste someone elses arguments as their own. Assuming you have received any education on proper historical citations, you generally make a claim then back it up with evidence/quotes from other sources. You have made no claim other than this is not debated any further (demonstrably false since the Baltic theory does indeed have scholastic support) and just posted entire sources making separate arguments from yours. Of the sources posted, you linked an entire book and an article that has a few quotes from a geologist with no link to the data the geologist is discussing. There are no points to refute that you have presented.

So why not do your homework, become knowledgeable about the people involved in the research, and read more than what's presented on a wiki page rather than calling people a child for asking you have more than a rudimentary understanding of something with which you choose to shitpost.

Or just resign to the fact that you choose to be ignorant, and carry nothing or relevence to this discussion, by calling me a whiner or a child, again demonstrating your maturity.

>muh tollense
My god this is getting pathetic

>Our
Literal wewuzing. Why would anyone look up to lazy, incompetent Swarthoids?

You are extremely butthurt.
I am not here to spoonfeed you information. I am not your teacher, professor or friend.

This is very simple.
If you have any claim to make about your Baltic hypothesis YOU back it up with evidence. Because there is not a single historian that backs the Tollense as Troy hypothesis. A wiki article talking about an "essay" by an "amateur historian" is not evidence.

Meanwhile, in the Hisarlik site, archeologists have found:
* Geographical features corresponding with those described in the Iliad.
* Mycenaean pottery showing widespread trade and cultural contact with other Greek peoples.
* Evidence of the population moving inside the city walls between the Troy VI and Troy VII periods, which corresponds to what's described in the Iliad.
* Evidence of several Bronze Age conflicts, including evidence of foreign invasion, fractured skulls, bronze arrow tips, fire and slaughter around 1184 BC, which brought Troy VIIa to a close, led to this phase being identified with the city besieged by the Greeks during the Trojan War.
* Evidence that the winds in the Aegean Sea behave just as those described in the Iliad.
* Clay tablets in Crete and other Aegean sites showing that the name Achilles was common in the region prior to the Bronze Age collapse.

Almost every historian agrees Hisarlik is the Troy site. Not a single one backs the Tollense pseudoscience bullshit which you or the shitposter you are defending put forward.

Now, address the points and stop hiding behind your crying about my "attitude" or whatever, or alternatively, fuck off.

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>It's consider spoonfeeding to actually give citations for your claims
Actually it's called constructing a thesis. You again fail to understand the difference between making a claim from an article and making a thesis and supporting it with evidence. So I will go through what you've listed and hold your hand through what is and isn't evidence.

>Geographic features corresppndong with those described in the Iliad
Do you have quotes from the Iliad and corresponding examples or are you just going to take some asshole being interviewed for a school paper on his word? Do you at least have a peer reviewed article with these findings?

>Mycenaean pottery showing widespread trade and cultural contact with other Greek peoples.
Ayyy how about some pictures of this pottery or a goddamn article at least mentioning how they came to that conclusion.

>Evidence of the population moving inside city walls
What evidence? Any articles or studies describing it and how they determined this? This is also circumstantial, not proof.

>Evidence of several Bronze Age conflicts, including evidence of foreign invasion, fractured skulls, bronze arrow tips, fire and slaughter around 1184 which brought Troy VII to a close.
This is again circumstantial evidence and loose at best. This evidence is more useful working on the assumption that this site is indeed Troy and tells archeologists and historians about what happened at that site rather than proving it is Troy.

>Evidence that the winds in the Aegean Sea behave just as those described in the Iliad.
What evidence? What quotes? Likewise the Baltic theory proports the winds in various areas mentioned in the Iliad correspond to the Baltic references.

>Clay tablets in Crete and other Aegean sites showing that the name Achilles was common in the region prior to the Bronze Age collapse.
Got any pictures of these tablets or am I just supposed to go full mormon and assume that you claiming you've seen them (or some scholar has seen them)...

I always thought she looked pretty swarthy and exotic too, so I checked her ancestry on Ethnicelebs out of curiosity and:

>"Ethnicity: Cornish, Dutch, English, French, German, Irish, Scots-Irish/Northern Irish, Scottish, Swiss-German, Welsh, as well as distant Austrian and Belgian [Flemish]"

My brain hurts.

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is proof? Likewise how is the debunking the Baltic theory? If you read the article you derided so starkly you'd know that the theory proports the Achaeans migrated to the Aegean from to the Baltic in the middle of the 2nd millenia BCE. The proported Battle of Troy in that theory would have occurred before then. The Bronze Age collapse is estimated to have happened between 1200 and 1150 BCE and Mycenean civilization is estimated to have started around middle of 2nd millenium BCE, which corresponds perfectly with the Baltic theory of migration.

>Almost every historian agrees Hisarlik is the site. Not a single one backs the Tollense pseudoscience bullshit.
That's cool but the Baltic theory doesn't specifically cite Tollense at all. For the theory itself, Italian Homeric scholar, Rosa Calzecchi Onesti and William Mullen, Classics professor at Bard College and magna cum laude graduate of Harvard, both support it and the theory itself was used to support archeological digs at Toija, the proported Baltic Troy location.

So how about some evidence and not just statements which you have not backed up with sources. Surely if you're so well read on the subject it should be easily to produce evidence for these various things you are citing.

Inb4 >lol tldr ur a buttmad child

Why do people always sperg the fuck out when discussing the prominence of blonde hair in certain white populations? Yes, a lot of Germans aren't blonde and have darker hair, but that also depends on their region of origin. Compare northern Germany to Bavaria for example. Also to be fair many of the Germans I have met in real life had blonde if not light brown hair, including my husband and his family. Just because some Northern Slavs and Scandinavians have more blondes than Germany, that doesn't mean that Germans are all dark swarthy untermensch in comparison.

>Uses photo of a balding man a handful of people mostly wearing hats to prove Germans aren't that blonde
Yeah ok user

>She was described as blonde haired and blue eyed
Do you want to know what's wrong with this?
They referred to light brown trees as golden.
and they had no concept of Blue as a color distinct from red and purple, they saw it as an intermediary.
There is no account in any actual Greek record of Greek heroes or gods having Blonde hair or Blue eyes, it is a translation error from non-classical era peoples who are being influenced by their own civilizational bias, think Interpratio Romanum but on a much larger scale.
They sure as fuck weren't Germanic/Nordic.
You can call them cultural Germans, but even then, when their weapons and names are East Gallic derived.
also
200,000 Celts through the generations >>>>>>>> 4,000 or so Lombards who went extinct.

>light brown is light hair
Actual flaxen blonde is concentrated in Southern Sweden and extends outward from there.

>support archeological digs at Toija
Source?

red hair is either bright orange or not true red hair.
pic rel is brown hair.
This hair is found only in Europe and only in People not in Southern Europe, except for those of North Med descent.
brown is considered light hair.
Brown hair is as common as blonde hair in Italy.
Most are pitch black or light black.

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You forgot Hittite tablets mentioning Wilusa (Ilios) in correlation with Greek names and battles involving both Greeks and Anatolians, they mention that Wilusa was near Lazba (lesbos) jsust like Hissarlik too, and they mention it big water channel just like Hissarlik and even call it "steep Wilusa" in their poems just like steep Ilios in the Iliad

>Ayyy how about some pictures of this pottery or a goddamn article at least mentioning how they came to that conclusion.

Not him, but are you seriously that fucking dumb? It's irritating for someone to be so ignorant about the topic and yet wanting to talk about it and even being arrogant like you, what a fucking idiot, I know I shouldn't bother with a complete moron but ajaonline.org/sites/default/files/1084_Kolb.pdf
ascsa.edu.gr/pdf/uploads/hesperia/147283.pdf
It was found in very large quantities, and reproduced locally

Island Jews are the brits.

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It's cute how angry people get around here when you ask them to prove the shit they're spouting.

Thanks for doing the other user's homework for him.

Not him, but are you seriously that fucking dumb? It's irritating for someone to be so ignorant about the topic and yet wanting to talk about it and even being arrogant like you, what a fucking idiot, I know I shouldn't bother with a complete moron but
forlagsblog.dk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Homer-pressemeddelelse.pdf

Danish press release of the expedition.

>Were there any actual physical descriptions for Helen of Troy?
"She was beautiful, ingenuous, and charming. Her legs were the best; her mouth the cutest. There was a beauty-mark between her eyebrows." t. Dares Phrygius
This is the closest to an actual description as we get, but it comes from a work of very dubious attribution. Homer doesn't really get any more specific than "ideal beauty", and everything else lacks any actual authority.
>Was she even Greek?
Undeniably yes. The Iliad has her the daughter of Zeus and Leda, an aetolian woman of further divine origins (Ares).
>Would she have had olive skin and dark hair?
She could have had pink hair and orange eyes if Homer wanted her to, she's a fictional character. That said, Dares Phrygius once again comes to help us by describing her twin brothers Castor & Pollux as "blond haired, large eyed, fair complexioned, and wellbuilt with trim bodies".

>Brown hair is as common as blonde hair in Italy.
Fuck no it isn't. Try thrice as common as both blonde and black.

Light brown hair is still fair.

Odysseus got the better deal
Penelope best girl

>Her legs were the best; her mouth the cutest.
If he lived today, this guy would have a waifu.

>Actually it's called constructing a thesis. You again fail to understand the difference between making a claim from an article and making a thesis and supporting it with evidence.
The evidence is in all the links I've posted above. It's not my job to hold your hand and quote you every fucking sentence, particularly of things that are common knowledge, but just for the sake of getting you to shut the fuck up, I will.

1. Geographical features

salimbeti.com/micenei/war.htm
>In the famous ships catalogue (*3) twenty-nine contingents of attackers are listed, each forming a geographical and political entity. Each of these shows the same structure: (1) name of the region and enumeration of the places furnishing men for the expedition (2) names of the respective commanders, (3) the number of the ships and the crew number for each. This list embraces 267 hexameters and record not less than 178 geographical names which have been largely retained until today, so that in this list of troop contingents we can recognize Greece.

>Through the catalog of the ships we can now try to determine the time when the tales of Troy was originated. So far not one of the 178 geographical names in the catalogue of ships has been proved to be fictitious

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2. Mycenaean pottery showing widespread trade and cultural contact with other Greek peoples.

ancienthasascham.wordpress.com/a-schliemanns-excavations-at-troy-and-mycenae/
>In 1878-79, Schliemann returned to Troy and discovered two more cities ‘Troy V’ and ‘Troy I’. In 1881, he surveyed the northwest area of Aegean Turkey for other possible sites for Troy and finding none, he returned to Troy in 1883 along with a professional architectural archaeologist, Wilhelm Dörpfeld, who had excavated for the Germans at Olympia. Dörpfeld identified the structures which Schliemann had excavated: two gates, a pre-historic palace and ramparts. He planned another season for 1889-90. It was during this season with Dörpfeld that some connection with Mycenae was found. In Troy VI outside the ramp of Troy II walls, a megaron (a Mycenaean-style building) was found along with distinctive Mycenaean pottery.

3. Evidence of the population moving inside city walls

dartmouth.edu/~prehistory/aegean/?page_id=630#L271d
>The chief difference between the citadels of Troy VIh and Troy VIIa lies in the use of space within the fortifications. The excavators have argued that a greatly increased population sought protection inside the walls during Troy VIIa, presumably as a result of some external threat. The preoccupation of this population with storage space as attested by the subterranean pithoi has been further interpreted to reflect a state of siege at the end of Troy VIIa. The violent destruction of Troy VIIa has been interpreted as evidence of the failure of Troy’s inhabitants to withstand the siege against which they had apparently prepared themselves. The destruction itself has therefore invariably been interpreted as the product of human agency.

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4. Evidence of several Bronze Age conflicts, including evidence of foreign invasion, fractured skulls, bronze arrow tips, fire and slaughter around 1184 which brought Troy VII to a close.

salimbeti.com/micenei/war.htm
>Doerpfeld found evidence for fire or fires at various places in the destruction level of Troy VIh. Likewise Korfmann' s excavation has also revealed signs of war, namely a thick charcoal layer dated roughly to 1250 BC. as well as slingshots, bronze spearheads and arrowheads scattered in the debris and lodged in the fortification walls.

Joachim Latacz. Troy and Homer: towards a solution of an old mystery. Oxford University Press, 2004. ISBN 0-19-926308-6. Page 38.
>Troy VIIa appears to have been destroyed by a war, perhaps the source of the legendary Trojan War, and there are traces of a fire. Partial human remains were found in houses and in the streets, and near the north-western ramparts a human skeleton with skull injuries and a broken jawbone. Three bronze arrowheads were found, two in the fort and one in the city.

5. Evidence that the winds in the Aegean Sea behave just as those described in the Iliad.

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6117459
>The Troad, the hinterland of Troy, was a blessed land. There was fresh water in abundance, the fields were rich with grain, the pastures were perfect for cattle, the woods were overrun with deer, and the seas were swarming with tuna and other fish. And there was the special gift of Boreas, the Greek god of the north wind: Boreas usually blows in the Dardanelles for thirty to sixty days during the summer sailing season, sometimes for weeks at a time. In antiquity, when boats lacked the technology to tack, that is, to zigzag against the wind, Boreas stopped shipping in the Dardanelles. For much of the sailing season, ship captains were forced to wait in Troy's harbor until the wind fell. As lords of the waterfront, Trojans got rich, and they owed it to Boreas.

6. Clay tablets in Crete and other Aegean sites showing that the name Achilles was common in the region prior to the Bronze Age collapse.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Homer
>Linear B tablets attest to the personal name Achilleus in the forms a-ki-re-u and a-ki-re-we, the latter being the dative of the former.
Pic: One of the Linear B tablets, one of the most famous archeological findings of the Aegean.

Also, these two:
Thank you anons for adding useful information to the discussion rather than cry like this sperg.

That's the only evidence you gathered for your side of the argument? What was the result of that dig? It's fucking nothing.

Archeologists often use these meme theories that they know are bullshit to get funding to carry out the digs and find out what they are really interested in. No serious archeologist or historian believes the Trojan War happened in the Baltics.

A promotional pamphlet is not a source.
You demand too much and show too little, faggot.

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Name?

holy shit.
you fucking destroyed him.

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