>it's been 2000 years since the Jews killed the man with the strongest claim to be their Messiah and nobody with a reasonable claim has shown up ever since
Surely Jews have realised they fucked up by now? I mean, surely after 2000 years they're thinking "fuck, what if we really did kill our messiah?"
If they haven't already they will soon. And they will abandon Judaism in their search for absolute forgiveness.
Except Jesus fulfilled almost none of the messianic prophecies. They even had to lie about his birth story.
Eh, religion isn't based upon reality, so it works.
t. Schlomo
No, but how is that an insult when concerning who understand messianic prophecies? Since you know, it's from the Jewish religion...
The Jews wanted him dead the Romans killed him for sedition.
Nope. They won't realize it until they are taken on the Antichrist's wild ride and Jesus comes back to save them (and everyone else) from him
>according to the bible the jews are wrong
Simon bar Kokhba is the guy that came closest to the messiah, and that didn't end exactly well for the Jews. Jesus was of minor importance to them.
Cyrus the Great was a messiah
In the book of John Jesus chases the jews from the temples and on a separate occasion calls them the children of the devil
They won't give you your foreskin back.
they are still butthurt that jesus made Christians apart of the seed of Abraham giving use all the same rights and privileges as the jews without living under the law
>nobody with a reasonable claim has shown up ever since
*blocks your path*
>he worships a dead jew on a stick
lel
>Surely Jews have realised they fucked up by now? I mean, surely after 2000 years they're thinking
If Jesus was telling the truth the world would have ended 2000 years ago. Surely Christians by now should realize they fucked up?
According to Jews, the messiah must be a descendant of David from his father's side. You could make the argument that Joseph is from David's bloodline, but that would negate Jesus being the biological son of God.
According to Jews, the Messiah is going to be a prophet, i.e. a human who speaks as an emissary for God. Jewish conceptions of messianism make no room for divinity of the messiah.
Where can I read what Jews thinks about Muhammad and Islam?
And then that heretic John Nelson Darby came up with dispensationalism and ruined everything.
I'm not really sure to be honest. I'm sure there is such stuff, but I'm not that interested in Islam and I'm not Sephardi, so the Jewish writers I'm more familiar with have limited contact with Islam or Islamic thought.
You might want to check something out by the Rambam, as I'm sure he had something to say about Islam, but I can't really direct you more precisely than that.
Nobody with a reasonable claim ever showed up
Some more points to support your thesis.
Every year at Yom Kippur the scarlet ribbon turned snow white when the scapegoat died. Until Jesus' crucifixion; then it never did.
Every year the scapegoat would be selected at random, right or left side, by lot. Ever since Jesus' crucifixion, the lot never fell to the right hand (the right hand in Christianity is entrance into heaven, see the Sheep and Goat Judgment in Matthew).
Jesus prophesied that the temple would be destroyed with not one stone being left upon another. That exact destruction happened 38 years later under Titus.
I don't know if you have any spiritual discernment, but the Jews have been blinded in part due to their rejection of the messiah, and entrenched into their own traditions, rites and rituals which have nothing to do with Judaism from 3500 years ago. God blinded them so that they have a veil over their heart, and cannot understand Moses and the prophets unless they become born again Christians.
That's who blind Jews can read Isaiah 53 and not see the obvious and blatant fulfillment of Isaiah 53 in Jesus' crucifixion.
They just can't see.
Not after Jesus, no. As Jesus fulfilled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of messianic prophecies, his claim was clear, and his rejection was a betrayal by his own people.
Not after Jesus, no.
Prior to Jesus, absolutely. After all, Abraham had told Isaac that "God will provide Himself a Lamb for the sacrifice", and the sacrifice God provided to Abraham that day was a ram, not a Lamb.
Not the Lamb of God, not that day. But Abraham saw the day of the Lord, and was happy.
No reason to worship Jesus as God if Jesus did not rise from the dead, proving he is God.
Jesus rose from the dead, proving he is God.
You keep saying this, and I keep showing you that all priests of Israel are anointed.
Are all priests of Israel messiahs? Are all kings? Are all prophets?
Then why await a messiah?
No, it's far more likely that you're an idiot.
there weren't even hundreds and hundreds of messianic prophecies in the first place. Most of those are the result of taking every instance of something in the bible that could even be remotely associated with Jesus for a prophecy. Meanwhile things unambiguously intended to be prophecies in the Bible fall on their ass.
There were before Jesus.
The texts never changed.
Suddenly there weren't any messianic prophecies that Jesus fulfilled, according to the Jews.
Strange coincidence.
>Meanwhile things unambiguously intended to be prophecies in the Bible fall on their ass.
Murder the Messiah
Reject the Kingdom
Blame the Murdered Messiah for not bringing in the Rejected Kingdom.
Jews.
>fall on their ass.
i.e., are not ripe yet.
Don't worry, Jew. Jesus is still the messiah, still alive, and will bring in the Kingdom Age with or without you people, thus fulfilling all of the prophecies about the messiah when they are ripe.
Mostly without you people, desu.
Zechariah 13:6 And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’
>Gee, I wonder how you explain this away.
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
That's a lot of dead Jews.
>nobody has ever been tortured as a result of betrayal
really made me think
The messiah.....wounded in the house of his friends......
Like, maybe scourged? Beat? Slapped? Punched? Beard pulled out? Kicked? Pushed down? Nails through hands? Nails through feet? Crown of thorns?
Nah, couldn't be.
>>nobody has ever been tortured as a result of betrayal
What a sick mind you have to say that Jesus betrayed the Jews, and not the other way around.
Absolutely sickening.
How did Jesus have a strong claim to be the Messiah?
Jesus wasn't a king and didn't liberate Israel. He didn't even claim he to.
It could be for that matter. But just only.
Jesus is qualified to sit on the throne of David through both his mother and adoptive father.
Jesus will sit on the throne of David, and the scepter will never leave Judah forever.
Yes, it is.
And with almost 2000 years of hindsight, you still can't figure it out.
Now tell me how rational you are.
>That's what I said
Christians surely have mousetraps affixed behind their knees
But he didn't. So how is Jesus the messiah in the original Jewish context?
Yes, reprobate, it's what you said.
You say he didn't.
Maybe nobody told you.
Jesus rose from the dead and is returning to earth a la the Second Coming, to sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem and rule the world with an iron rod for a thousand years.
When we say Jesus is alive, we're not kidding, and we're not talking metaphorically.
OK, but was he king of Israel and did he liberate it?
If not, then he doesn't have a strong claim to being the messiah. In fact he has no claim at all.
Also I'm lord of the universe by the way. Regardless of how weak I seem now and how little political influence I have. After I die, like 5000 years later I'm going to come back and be super powerful. So you can just go a head and give me my title now.
>>Jesus rose from the dead
>>Source: My massive fat ass.
He was the King of Israel under the times of the Judges; He was the King of Kings over Israel when they had kings; and He was crucified as the King of the Jews.
Jesus as the Messiah and King was not going to force himself onto the Jews.
He presented himself, proved his claims, and they rejected him and conspired to murder him.
Next time, he's not asking.
He's the only one with a claim to being the messiah, because he is the messiah.
You have studied zero messianic prophecies and are incapable of rendering an informed opinion.
It's the single best recorded event in ancient history. Toss it out and welcome solipsism.
>proved his claims
He didn't, and then he died.
>And if a king shall arise from among the House of David, studying Torah and occupied with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah, and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen breaches in its observance, and will fight God's wars, this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one. If he succeeded and built the Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the dispersed ones of Israel together, this is indeed the anointed one for certain, and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, so that they will all proclaim the Name of the Lord, and to worship Him with a united resolve
>Was he a king
no
>did he get all of Israel to back him
no
>did he fight Gods wars
no, he was a pacifist. You could argue he was fighting sin or whatever, its a push
>did hebuild the Holy Temple in its proper place
no
>did he gather the dispersed Jews together
no, didn't even leave Judea
I don't want to hear what he will do in the future. Or later Christian revisionism that changes the guidelines because Jesus obviously didn't fulfill the old ones. Look at it objectively, he has a no claim, not even a weak on.
You can say Jesus is God or whatever, that's a religious argument I can't fight with logic. But as far as being a messiah in the established Jewish sense, nope.
But the only people who say it happened just so happen to be Christian. The bible is not a source. It was written by men. Compiled by men. Changed by men. Translated by men. The bible can't be proof that it's correct.
Any non-Christians record it? Were any of the sources complied by men who actually saw it first hand?
If the answer to both is no, and it is, its far from the best recorded event in ancient history.
I swear it's the same guy in every christian thread.
Who posts.
Just like this.
>satanic talmudic rubbish
>>The only source is the Bible and the only way to know the Bible is believable is because Jesus or whoever says so and the reason why we should trust the word of a condemned criminal who was executed and had his remains likely dumped in a rubbish pit somewhere is because the bible says so.
Nice circular logic. I reiterate:
>>Jesus rose from the dead
>>Source: My massive fat ass
>I don't want to hear what he will do in the future.
He will do it in the future. Without you.
and Jews, and Greeks, and Romans, and so forth, and so on......
Dozens. Google non-biblical evidence of jesus
>The Word of God is not reliable
So saith satan.
...
>All this butthurt
Christians are truly subhuman, kek
We're not like you, that's for sure.
I already did this. No first hand accounts outside the bible.
no I was saying people get tortured by being betrayed. You're just too incensed with religious fervor to read it that way.
You do realize that historians write about things that happen in the past, yes?
And that there's no reason on earth any historian would be contemporaneously writing about a homeless Jewish rabbi under Roman occupied Israel, yes?
>thou fool
Zechariah 13:6 And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’
Who was betrayed, again?
And who was tortured, again?
Reprobate.
>>earthquakes happen after the guy's death, no accounts other then from either the bible or various christian sources from much later.
>>the entire surface of the planet goes dark for 72 hours because of a supposed eclipse or some shit, again no independent accounts this one is much more serious because an eclipse like that would be really noticeable.
>>THE MOTHERFUCKING DEAD RISE FROM THEIR MOTHERFUCKING GRAVES AND WALK THE EARTH AND THERE ARE NO SOURCES FROM THIS OTHER THEN VARIOUS CHRISTIAN WRITINGS.
But you know, anyone who disagrees is evil or whatever else.
There is a massive account; the Roman emperor writing to Pilate asking him wtf happened, and why was this huge darkness invading his country from Pilate's direction.
kek
Your ignorance is on you.
Yeah no, you don't get to pull this shit. Your godman didn't just supposedly die and come back, a whole bunch of other shit happened that various independent sources would have either witness or heard about afterwards. Fuck off with this amateur hour bullshit.
Of him rising from the dead, not some peasant religious leader who was killed.
Only extreme atheists doubt Jesus existed (even though there are absolutely no first hand accounts of Jesus). I'm talking about a dead man coming back to life after being crucified and stabbed. Any first hand accounts of that?
Jesus stook around for 40 days after the resurrection, did he go to any Roman officials to let them now the good news? Maybe some Jewish officials who could attest to it?
Or did he conveniently stay out of the public eye so that Christianity could spread as slowly as possible.
Oh really? And where is this source of yours? Go ahead and post a link.
That would be Jesus among others, as I said.
Brainlet.
Yes, there are letters going back and forth from Jerusalem to Rome.
Maybe do some research.
1. He is not of the blood of David.
2. The Messiah is to not be considered God or God himself.
I won't even bother with the details about the Messianic age as they never came to fruition. So, no, Jesus does not fit the role of the Messiah. Christians adopted a lot of concepts from Judaism but ultimately twisted them to fit their narrative while at the same time claiming to accept the OT as canonical. A good example of discontinuity between the two is the Christian invention of Hell and Satan.
You do realize, my good man, that such an event must be written posthumously?
kek
>thou fool
>Surely Jews have realised they fucked up by now?
kek, ask the palestinian
It would be Jesus, the Messiah. As prophesied by every Hebrew prophet, ever.
1. Both Mary and Joseph are heir to David, so is Jesus.
2. The Messiah had to be God in order to both die for his friends and also establish an eternal throne.
You won't bother with the details because you like hiding in the dark, and pretending God cannot see you.
>No contemporary references to this darkness have been found outside of the New Testament
>In his Commentary on Matthew, however, Origen offered a different approach. Answering criticisms that there was no mention of this incident in any of the many non-Christian sources, he insisted that it was local to Palestine, and therefore would have gone unnoticed outside.
If you have this source your totally not making up, you should sell it, you could easily make millions.
Letters from Pilate to Tiberius and back again.
Try harder next time.
>If you have a 2,000 year old roman parchment, you would be rich.
No shit, Sherlock
And the Talmud.
Do you read? At all? Off site, of course?
Yes, Pilate wrote letters to Seneca and recieved letters from him in turn. Are you saying these letters mention Jesus in some way as somebody who rose from the dead?
Greek accounts of the Trojan War mention their deities intervening in the conflict and yet most sensible people do not take this as proof that those deities exist.
Maybe but based on that verse alone it could just as easily be bloody Caesar.
>Letters from Pilate to Tiberius
Link the source you have for this claim so that we can evaluate it.
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. You can believe anything you want. But don't say its the most documented even in history, when there isn't a single account of it at the time.
>1. Both Mary and Joseph are heir to David, so is Jesus.
1. Joseph yes, but Jesus isn't his biological son. Mary is not. Only a small fringe accept Mary because of some assumptions drawn on the genealogy.
2. So he wasn't the Messiah, then.
I won't bother because it didn't happen, and you know it didn't happen.
T.i.b.e.r.i.u.s.
Reprobate.
>What is Google.
Are you a time traveler, that you KNOW no writings existed on Nisan 14, 32 AD?
kek
>thou fool
Profligate.
Adopted sons take too. In fact, they take better than bio sons because bio sons can be disinherited, whereas adopted sons cannot.
Jesus is heir to David through both Mary and Joseph, and anointed by God.
Nevermind, found it and it's a fake.
johnsanidopoulos.com
>I know, I'll call him a reprobate again
Christposting everyone
{Thesaurus} {Do you need it?}
Oh, no, godless people are calling everything about Jesus a fake.
What do.