Vegan General

No, it means I'm sick and tired of vegans claiming the moral high ground.

So then logically argue that they're not. It shouldn't be so hard :^)

You'll then have people that are fruitarian claim the high-ground. You need to relax and let people be if they want to risk deficiencies so that some chicken lives longer let them be.

>tfw will never get cucked so hard by Emu's that I get forced to veganism
being non-Australian is truly bliss.

Basically my argument would be the exact same that Athene made against VG, that most, if not all, vegans are moral relativists with little self-reflection as long as they're "better" in their own eyes than the other guy.

I'm super chill, lol

No you were lying. You said that red meat was a known carcinogen, but it's not.

I also don't see chicken and fish on there as well and vegans say that all meat causes cancer, but it doesn't clearly. So you're a double liar.

If you dont believe them to have the moral highground, then dont let it get to you

Or do you feel that they have the right to make such claims on a subconscious level?

There are no sources of b12 outside of animal products or supplements. You are lying to yourself.

This chart is still completely wrong and you should still feel bad for posting it

What makes you think they "get to me"? Just because I disagree with some group of people on a very fundamental level doesn't mean they "get to me". You're making all of this up in your own head.

the average meat eater is deficient in vitamin b12. Makes you think really.

Uhh they obv get to you if you feel the need to literally post your dissatisfaction online

cereals are fortified with b12 made from lichen.

Yet somehow virtually all meat eaters live their daily lives without needing supplements, as opposed to vegans. Really makes me think!

Eggs, milk and meat taste good. But I rarely eat meat tho... That has to count for something.

vegans do have the moral high ground brah

>literally post
As opposed to what? Lol. Anyways, it seems to me like you're just fishing for something at this point. If you want to debate something that matters, I'm open to it, otherwise have a great day.

>No source
Hmmm

If vegans are not deficient in b12 and meat eaters are, then why are vegans required to supplement b12 in their diets or otherwise die? Hmmmm

In for milk causes osteoporosis and gives you weak bones

Athene himself is vegan. And he would say we should aim to create the most happiness and least suffering that we can

Yeah, it counts for all the gains you aren't making

No, that's actually not at all what he said. He said he's living life in a way that's comfortable to him and for him it means veganism and for others it means meat. He doesn't try to claim the moral high ground. You should re-watch the debate he had with VG.

Where are you getting this from ? Any sources? I hope you don't mean the elderly, because that wouldn't qualify as average.

Because it's easier to take a supplement than to specifically eat B12 containing foods.

It doesn't. Being fat does

I don't make gains anyway cause I am on a cut

he said VG should use his money to create maximum happiness. He doesn't think what he does reflects what is ideal. He's effectively utilitarian in philosophy

the list on the right omits
>E S T R O G E N

Is that why vegan cucks break their bones more often and have lesser bone density?
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17299475 - In this population, fracture risk was similar for meat eaters, fish eaters and vegetarians. The higher fracture risk in the vegans appeared to be a consequence of their considerably lower mean calcium intake
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Im not fishing, my bad

I promise im not trying to be a dick right now, but I just get so sad when i see people completely disillusioned by false concepts of health that are smashed into our brains everyday

It is my personal belief that humans are NOT supposed to be eating animals, and there have man maaaanyy clinical trials to support this notion.

If you take a step back and really look at the process of meat eating, its truly barbaric.

What do you think has more nutrients for your body. Dead decaying animal flesh, or a literal 'fruit' of nature. Fruit being the result of labor. Fruits are literally harnessed pure energy from sunlight and soil. This is all putting morals aside and seeing purely science. [spoiler] Morality is an entirely different subject and I cant really get into [/spoiler]

Meat doesnt even taste 'good' to us, as we gotta slap all kinds of shit on it just to make it palatable. It only tastes good to us because of our addiction to it, in the same sense taht alcohol tastes good to an alcoholic

>he said VG should use his money to create maximum happiness
No, you misunderstood him, pay attention next time, and I say next time because you really need to understand this.

His argument was that VG is a moral relativist exactly because VG DOESN'T donate all his money to animal charities and do everything in his power to save as many lives as possible. If truly cared about saving lives, he could always do more, but he doesn't. He used VG purchasing donuts for his birthday as an example of the relativism, because the only thing VG does to save lives is to consume animal products. Instead of buying the donuts, he could have used the money to save lives.

His argument was that VG was prioritizing comfort over reducing animal suffering via donuts. It was textbook appeal to futility. Also when Athene says "logic" it's probably not what you think it means.

Your sources are old, they are not relevant and you are wrong

that is utilitarianism fuckwit

>2013 is old
Tiptopkek you can't make this shit up.

I've studied logic on a very high level, so I know that Athene is full of shit most of the time, don't get me wrong here. It was not appeal to futility, unless I missed something here. If I did misunderstand, please explain.

>His argument was that VG was prioritizing comfort over reducing animal suffering via donuts
Exactly! That's one example of moral relativism. VG repeatedly said that he wants to establish a moral baseline, but the problem arises because that moral baseline would be something that HE is comfortable with, not something which is objective and based in reality.

Hey random dude who's not part of the conversation, Athene didn't make an argument FOR utilitarianism. Please don't respond.

>Human
>Fueled by glycogen
Hwuwhuehue

lol get fucked, he implicitly invoked utilitarianism when he stated that there are meat eaters who are better people than vg

If you spend some of your money on donuts instead of spending it on reducing animal suffering, you don't care about animal suffering. This is an appeal to futility. Apply this same reasoning to something like rape, theft, or murder and you will see why it's faulty.

Why did you go vegan, anons?

Ethics

>i don't know anything about b12

I don't like moral inconsistency. I don't understand how someone can claim to love their doggo but eat meat and be okay with the suffering of animals. If you are in that position, you only like your dog because it's essentially a slave for your enjoyment.

...

i didn't

Every one of those animals sees the full color scale, they just perceive the same colors differently due to their species ratio of cones. Completely wrong from the 2nd fucking line of "evidence"

Consider this, everyone is born vegan.

Vegans and vegetarians are the same shit!

Is not eating a vegan trait? Or are women not animals?

And when did you go vegan, anons?

You drink mommy milk as a baby. That's vegan.

But mommy milky is an animal product.

Your mommy is not being forced to feed you her milk (hopefully), she wants to do it, so it's perfectly vegan.

As embryos we consume nutrients processed by the mother, arguably an animal product.

Not really. Even if they have the exact same diet, a person can only be called a vegan if they don't use any products that are made from animals or their byproducts. Most "vegans" use animal products all the time and have no idea.

For the record I want to say I love animals! They're delicious!

So if someone willingly offers you their arm, vegans are all for cannibalism as well?

There's no ethical reason not to eat their arm. I wouldn't want to do it for other reasons, but ethically it's fine.

Many meat eaters have deficiencies that they need supplements for, actually. Especially if they're over 40.

What deficiencies are those and how does being a herbivore help with that as opposed to being an omnivore?

most people eat way less fiber than they should and get way less vitamin d & magnesium & potassium than they should.

Athene intentionally made a bad argument. He does shit like this all the time

...

>

>how does being a herbivore help with that as opposed to being an omnivore?
I didn't say that, I just refuted your claim that meat-eating diets magically throw out the need for supplements.
A good chunk of the western population is deficient in B12, and I live in England where lots of sunlight isn't very common, so a lot of older people I know are deficient in vitamin D, which causes all sorts of problems for them.

>I didn't say that,
Fair enough
>I just refuted your claim that meat-eating diets magically throw out the need for supplements.
Well, *I* didn't say that, so... My point is that vegans NEED B12 supplements to survive, whereas omnivores don't, because we can eat whatever the fuck we want.

Ethics. There is no way to be morally consistent and not be vegan, and there is no good reason to not be vegan

>vegans NEED B12 supplements to survive
No, you are wrong too. Vegans don't NEED supplements if they consume fortified milks, cereals, mock meats etc

once again

processed meat is a class 1 carcinogen, like Plutonium. Class 1 carcinogens are KNOWN TO CAUSE CANCER.

red meat is a class 2 carcinogen, like malaria. Class 2 carcinogens are PROBABLE CAUSES OF CANCER.

cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/general-info/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens.html

please shut the hell up now?

What's more ethical that reducing harm as much as possible?

The "Muh ethics" cunts will gleefully lie to your face about veganism if it means saving a cow and a chicken. Only trust those who are in it for health or environmental reasons.

That's what everybody says.

In order to make milk, they kill the cows baby. So the milk industry is the meat industry.

It might even be worse because of how long the cows suffer. Multiple calfs are taken from them, and killed on their first day of life. Once they don't make enough milk, they kill the cows.

I'm not trying to guilt trip you. Just informing you that it's basically the same thing.

>stop tricking me into not killing myself

I went vegan and only eat soy and pic related happened, is this normal?

Where's all the links?

But it's generally easier/cheaper to just get those from a cow.

>The "Muh ethics" cunts will gleefully lie to your face about veganism if it means saving a cow and a chicken.
How does that follow?
>Only trust those who are in it for health or environmental reasons.
Why?

>Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, (((as far as is possible and practicable))), all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

A person who holds their grandmother's hand as they pass and a murder are not in the same league. Vegans go out of their way to avoid harming animals and all you have to say is "well, it's not enough!"

The carcinogenic compound in "processed meat" is nitrate salt preservatives, not the meat itself
Class 2 carcinogens are those with no actual proof of carcinogenic activity, but they wish they had it

>There is no way to be morally consistent and not be vegan,
Sure there is, animal suffering is unimportant

Probable and confirmed are two different words with two different meanings, I suggest you pick up a dictionary

More animals, plants, insects and natural ecosystems die putting food on your plates then died putting food on mine.

That's why they're in two separate categories, smarty pants.

I eat ass and dick. Am I allowed?

There is a vegan guy at work and I'm trying to get my boss to hire a portaloo for him because he renders the men's toilets unusable for 2/3s of the day

What is it about that post that makes it so difficult to comprehend? I tried to hard to make it clear. It's almost like you don't want to believe it.

Lead* is a class 2 carcinogen

do you want to eat some lead? probable carcinogens means it probably causes cancer.

It's not like water and broccoli are listed as probable carcinogens. It's a short list of shit you should probably avoid.

Why is it only beta leftists who think quirky cartoons are a legitimate way of expressing the opinions they all take way too seriously?

Shift work is a class 2 carcinogen

...

>animal suffering is unimportant
Name the trait