Does ketogenic diet actually work to lose weight? is it healthy on the long run...

Does ketogenic diet actually work to lose weight? is it healthy on the long run? or is it some kind of fitness myth engineered to make people buy books, tutorials over the internet, etcetc?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/KHaCKudtVi0
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18457208
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4603544/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

A Ketogenic diet can be extremely effective as a weight loss tool, but most people don't understand it anf worst yet most people that pimp it don't have a clue either..

Long term studies of Ketogenic diets do not really exists outside of the ones done way back in the before seizure drugs for epileptic children existed and one of the only effective treatments was a Ketogenic diet. Renewed interest again as a alternative to drugs it is coming back as a treatment option.

If you want to really understand this topic I suggest "The Ketogenic Diet" by Lyle McDonald.

thanks user

All diets work the same way:
They create a caloric deficit in some way.

Carbs/insulin don't matter shit, debunked meme

This is an excellent example of what is wrong.

Creating a caloric deficit is but one piece of the puzzle.

Anyone that would say "Carbs/insulin don't matter shit" has no idea what they are talking about.

I have explained keto so many times but I found that the YouTube channel What Ive learned covers this pretty good, check his videos out

youtu.be/KHaCKudtVi0 for starters

Ive done keto several times with great success.Alot of people who do keto do it wrong by eating alot procesed foods.

Coconut oil/milk
Olive oil/grapeseed oil/
Avacodo/avacodo oil
All nuts and nut oils
All meat and fish but no processed meat at all
I know cheese is keto but I avoid it
Alot of anything green
I did eat berries but only a cup

When I did it I went from 250 to 180 in 3 months and while I loved it what made me happier is how I felt great.Before I did it I was high blood pressure,borderline diabetic,sleep apnea,no libido,depression and after just a month on keto everything reveresed.

Another thing I liked about keto is that Ive done typical calorie reduction diet but the keto diet + reduced calories is the only diet where I lost my man boobs and love handles no other diet had done that for me

thanks user reporting same problems.. manboobs and love handles.. so I am going to give it a try.
I read somewhere that keto needs to curb carbs to less than 100 grams a day. I go to the gym and do circuit interval training. will I have needed energy with such limited carbs?

Yeah its actually around 20 carbs a day but I was eating 50 carbs a day and was still in keto.Try to eat most of the carbs pre/post workout and slow steady cardio is better along with full bodyworkouts

>on deficit
>insulin is lower in general, enough to pull calories from glycogen and triglycerides between meals
>on keto, on surplus
>body cannot burn enough triglycerides to keep up with input, fat gets stored

????

Obviously keto on a deficit will work, any diet on a deficit will work. People have done deficit gas station food diets and lost weight. Protein elevates insulin, btw ;)

Yes, any deficit diet will cause weight loss.

Yes, Fat - Protein and Carbs all require insulin to be metabolized. That does not mean the insulin response to different foods is the same.

That does not mean all diets are as effective. Particularly around the issue of muscle to fat loss ratio.

Your simplistic view on this topic is entertaining. The biofeedback loop on this whole thing and short cutting it to your advantage is the key. The complexity of the whole thing is actually pretty amazing and 99% of this board has no idea just like u.

>eat a minor deficit while eating enough protein and carbs and muscle loss will be minimal

>The complexity of the whole thing is actually pretty amazing, the mechanisms of my mind are an enigma

Also
>like u
Ya blew it.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18457208

This

I went from 250 to 170 using keto also i had alot of the same health problems also it worked very well for me

Interesting, but also a report on an population that has evolved under greater stress in terms of this type of diet.

They have genetic advantages that may or may not significantly affect the study.

>Anyone that would say "Carbs/insulin don't matter shit" has no idea what they are talking about.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4603544/

>This study demonstrated that, calorie for calorie, restriction of dietary fat led to greater body fat loss than restriction of dietary carbohydrate in adults with obesity. This occurred despite the fact that only the carbohydrate restricted diet led to decreased insulin secretion and a substantial sustained increase in net fat oxidation compared to the baseline energy-balanced diet.
>In contrast to previous claims about a metabolic advantage of carbohydrate restriction for enhancing body fat loss (Ludwig and Friedman, 2014; Taubes, 2007, 2011; Westman et al., 2007), our data and model simulations support the opposite conclusion when comparing the RF and RC diets. Furthermore, we can definitively reject the claim that carbohydrate restriction is required for body fat loss

>don't eat processed foods
>first 4 examples of what he eats are processed oils

thanks anons for the insights
I was wondering which diet would would be better to reach shredded God tier physique (ideally, not taking into account my specific genetics ).
A restricted caloric regime with macros like the ones specified in Veeky Forums first thread, OR a restricted calorie keto diet?

> In contrast, carbohydrates were about 29% of the energy content of the RC diet with a mean absolute carbohydrate intake of about 140 g/d

This wouldn't even be considered "low carb" by most people. Shit study

>Each inpatient visit included a 5-day baseline and a 6-day calorie restricted dietary intervention. Subjects were fed an energy balanced diet (50% carbohydrate, 35% fat, 15% protein) for 5 days followed by random assignment to isocaloric removal of 30% of total energy, either by a 60% reduction of dietary carbohydrate (RC) or 85% reduction of dietary fat (RF) for 6 days.

>The mathematical model simulations suggest that the diet with selective reduction in fat would continue to outpace the reduced carbohydrate diet over 6 months. However, further reducing dietary carbohydrate from the RC diet (with a corresponding addition of fat to maintain calories) was predicted to decrease body fat to a greater extent than the experimental RC diet. Very low carbohydrate diets were predicted to result in fat losses comparable to low fat diets. Indeed, the model simulations suggest that isocaloric reduced-energy diets over a wide range of carbohydrate and fat content would lead to only small differences in body fat and energy expenditure over extended durations. In other words, while the present study demonstrated the theoretical possibility that isocaloric diets differing in carbohydrate and fat can result in differing body fat losses, the body acts to minimize such differences. The endocrine and metabolic adaptations that allow for the relative insensitivity of body fat to dietary macronutrient composition may themselves have effects on health over the long term, but this was not investigated in the present study.

This study isn't a very good argument against keto.

First the carb restriction only goes as far as 20%, where keto is around 5%. That combined with the limited time of the diet makes it unlikely that these people ever had significantly elevated ketone levels, which is the point of keto.

Then it even acknowledges that the data suggests that further restriction of carbs would result in comparable fat loss.

Not even a ketofag.

The only way you'll know for certain is if you try both.

If you can't decide flip a coin. If at some point you aren't happy try switching. If it's going great and you don't feel like switching that's fine too.

No amount of research or debate will lead you to the right answer on this.

meant for

>is it healthy
yes
>can it work in the long run
indefinitely

check out /fast/, they have a great visoe which will make you toss all your carbs

That study in way changes what I said .

This study is about obese people when comparing low fat vs low carb and which is more effective, but that is not even the real problem the sample size is 19 people and most of the results are based on computer simulation.

The other huge issue is the diet is only followed for 6 days after a baseline 5 days which would ensure the body is not in starvation mode.

While the study is interesting it has serious limitations not the least of which is the fact the bodys adaptation to deficit takes place well after 6 days.

For reals you need to do better to support a claim carbs/insulin don;t mean shit.

A "balanced diet" doesn't mean every single meal every day has to have the perfect array of macro and micro nutrients... it needs to include these things over time. Yes, high fat ketogenic diet will make you lose weight... but if you're lifting and building muscle you need carbs. Hence the bulk/cut cycle.

>insulin don't matter
what is diabetes

Insulin plays a huge role in enabling you to keep weight off. You can lose weight on keto, but if you're still fucked up hormonally with high insulin you will gain it back. Keto can't fix insulin resistance... fasting can

>I read somewhere that keto needs to curb carbs to less than 100 grams a day.
The fewer the better.
>Buy keto strips
>go as deep as you can, eating no carbs
>eat fixed amount of carbs
>observe changes
>adjust

Take ownership of it and you'll make it.

>slow steady cardio is better
No it isn't. High Intensity Interval Training is superior for three reasons.

1) It doesn't take as long
2) You burn more calories
3) You don't lose muscle

Muscle mass is critical to weight loss because maintenance of that muscle costs you daily calories. The more muscle you have the higher your basal metabolic rate must be to support it. If you run off all your gains with low intensity cardio you are defeating your own goals unknowingly.