Why doesn't 1/2/3/4 include rows? What would the equivalent for rows be?

How about a 2pl8 weighted chin

This
IMO, you should strive to row more than you bench because back muscles are more complex and bigger than chest.

But rowing 100kg is harder than benching 100kg.
Also your back gets activated in almost all other exercises and your back has deadlifts, pullups, front squats.

It's just my experience but I have good posture and my 3x5 bench is 122kg while my (perfect form bent over) row is 98kg.

Not him but Brian advocates body English when form breaks down and straps if your grip limited. You should really be able to row what you bench to keep your muscles in balance

My pendlayrow has always been pretty much exactly the same as my bench.

And btw my pendlay row is very strict, not cheating.

>rowing 100kg is harder than benching 100kg.

pick one you autist. its more or less the same movement.

>But rowing 100kg is harder than benching 100kg.
guess you have some rowing to do, then

Chestlets with shit row form I guess?

You know that you shouldn't do it dynamically, that your back should be static, and that you should touch your upper abdomen/lower chest with the bar?

For bench you just do max push until the bar is up and the technique is automatically good when you can press most. For row it's the opposite.

who gives a fuck about rows lmao

if you had said weighted pullup or weighted chinup you would have a point

>tfw bench 110 kg
>tfw row 130 kg
My back was always way stronger than the rest of my body, sure, it's normal, but I talk about WAY stronger, I started deadlifting with 120 kg for example while I was barely able to bench 60 kg or squat 60 kg.

kekd

And Pendlay rows for Pendlay brows

Which rows for Cretan brows?

99% of well informed lifters row incorrectly. Every fucking guy swings at the bottom, even slightly, and brings his chest down to the bar at the top instead of bringing the bar to his chest.

>bar to chest

"WRONG"

Depends on how you row. You can row low (stomach) or high (chest), different styles, not correct or wrong.

Depends on the type of row. Bent-over rows? Slightly less than bench, since it's a less stable position so that will take away about 10% from your numbers.
>2plt bench = 1.8plt bent-over row

Any good videos for correct, safe (read: not fucking up your lower back) form vids for barbell rows? I've seen the one from a Rippetoe seminar, it seems so...jerky in movement, explosive. I always thought it is supposed to be more controlled, similar to deadlifts?

Bench 85s for 5.

Row 100s for 8.

Uhoh.

This

lol, have fun with your lack of back size friend.

weighted pull ups and chins are good, but they aren't the end all be all of back movements

i see you looking at my ass while i'm rowing, i know you want a taste

wtf my bench only 72.5 kg but i can 1RM 90kg row

same, we have the same starting and current lifts

i do rows and have done so for years though, so you're proceeding from a false assumption - i just don't particularly care how much weight i'm using for them, because it's so easy to compromise form on rows if you try to push weight progression on them

and it's funny you say that because my back was fairly small when i focused primarily on rows, i only started putting on real size when i made it a point to focus on pullups

1/2/3/4

Is for 5 reps right?

I feel like 1 x 5 pull ups with a plate is easier than most of those, but two plates would be way harder.

Maybe 1 x 5 with 65 lbs

Fuck off you toothpick legged goblin. Some of us actually train for the purpose of athletic ability

If you think ideal bench form just comes from pushing really hard you're probably leaving a lot of weight off your lift

when you're talking about real size on your back, are you referring to lats or upper and mid back?

for me it was the opposite as you. i didn't see much full back development from chins/pulls. just lats. getting my rows past 315, particularly the snatch grip yates row, blew up my upper back and mid back as well as my lats.
leading me to believe that you can train for thickness and get width, but can't train for width and get thickness

I pull to touch my belly button as it's much easier on the lower back
I pull to my waist when i go past 315

>being permanently hobbled
>this is athletic ability

Ok

>do rows off a rack
>don't support your lower back with chest supported rows
>just do bent elbow rack pulls lmao

I bet you used to bench 455 when you were my age too lmfao.

Because rows are too easy to cheat on (intentionally or otherwise)

just do both man

Are his wrists the wrong angle or should they br straighter? I find myself doing this because I get scared like a babby.

Wtf same, deadlift 335 lbs but bench 160 fml

his forearms are tilted back and he has a thumbless grip

Post body

if you do pull ups/chin ups at all your back should be stronger than your chest
I don't understand how people think its so hard to get these results

225 bench is proportional to a 183 pendlay row.

>not understanding how prime a cheat barbell row is

Pull ups aren't in 1/2/3/4, and no it isn't for 5. People should just be using wilks anyway.

get a fucking grip m8

Rows can't really be used as an objective benchmark like the other big exercise because the difficulty of the movement can vary a huge deal based on even small angle changes, minor hip movement, etc. Power cleans would be a better inclusion IMO, or even something like pull ups if you want to strictly measure upper back strength.

As is already becoming obvious at this point, it's impossible to judge a row, as it can be performed in so many different ways and with varying degrees of "cheat"

Of course, the same thing holds true for the bench press to some extend. But then again, those numbers, or milestones if you, will are completely arbitrary.

I find however that you should be able to bench press roughly as much as you can pull in a weighted chin-up (bodyweight + added weight).

Your mileage may vary.

Barbell rows require putting your lumbar spine in a compromised position with almost zero carryover to any sports besides wrestling. You can load your spinal erectors with more weight and more safely in a deadlift and you can even recruit your lats and upper back to a high degree with a snatch grip deadlift. You can manage heavier weights on a chested supported tbar row because it isn't lower back limited.

If your strength and conditioning coach is having you barbell row heavy for a sport, he's an idiot.

That's not what I wrote. For bench you just get that you're doing it right when you can push the most weight. For row you can pull significantly less if you do the correct as compared to doing them slightly wrong.

I think it depends on whether your upper body is inclined or parallel to the floor.

>You can manage heavier weights on a chested supported tbar row because it isn't lower back limited.
You could make the same argument about leg press vs. squat. Placing demands on the low back can be seen as a pro just as well as a con.
Also, what makes you say a deadlift is safer than a BOR?

Regarding carry-over. It's a bodybuilding/general strengh building exercise. It's not a sports specific exercise. It's not supposed to have any direct carry-over effect. It is however supposed to make you bigger and stronger.

Not saying that I would necessarily use it, but lets be fair at least.

The lower you pull, the less muscle activation there is. That's why it's easier, not just on your lower back but the movement in general

Who the fuck takes a screenshot of an image from a Japanese child trading forum?

yeah but rows or pendlay rows

she can pull those panties up to her fucking ears and she still wont have no ass

rows, as e.g. Brian alsruhe says. Pendlay row is a good bit below bench (on the same levels), as long as it is really strict form. If someone on Veeky Forums tells me he pendlay rows similar to his bench I'll just assume he has the same "pendlay" form as Alphadestiny

Honestly people ought to do very heavy leg presses if they want very strong legs, in addition to squats, if they know how to program it right.

Squats also directly train core stability when pushing with the legs that you need for scrums, tackles, and even sprinting. You can't move as much weight as a leg press but you can move a lot of weight through a huge range of motion. Squats are efficient, can be loaded to fairly high weights, can be done at 90% of RM without causing huge shearing on spine, and are excellent for body building and sports. The BOR is efficient, but it can't be loaded at 90% of your max without huge form sacrifices. There is a great risk of immense shearing forces on the lower back. And for what?

Unless you're training to do something like flipping a wrestler who is on the ground, you almost never need to make a rowing motion while bent over withas much weight as you need to use to get strong with BOR.

If you use supported tbar rows, you can work your back way more before being limited by spinal erector strength. T-bars also have a bigger ROM if you use small diameter plates! The lack of low back engagement in a tbar row, in turn, also allows you to let your lower back rest so you can go harder on your preferred posterior chain workout (dl, lowbar squat).

BOR have their place: and thats for people who just own a bar and plates and have nothing better to row with.

youtu.be/QlxbHqSMIv4

>Pendlay row is a good bit below bench (on the same levels)
what does that mean?
anyways I consider the Prow "easier" than regular rows, since you start from a deadstop and you dont gotta hold the bar between reps.
more explosive.
also paradoxically I find it easier not to cheat it, as opposed to rows, because I just keep my chest still while with rows everything is kind of moving around especially if I'm struggling

rows for the bros my nigga
i can row 2pl8 with good form and i cant bench 2 8

rowing is harder than pressing

>every top powerlifter says that rows are crucial for all 3 pl lifts
>user on sewing board says otherwise

ok buddy

>100k x5

I (yates/pseudo-BO) row 120 kg (perfect form BO row is more likely around 100) and bench 130 kg

You niggers want your squat bench deadlift go up?

Do your rows niggers!

also
back is most aesthetic muscle group

>trust me bro, you have to do your rows with perfect form or it doesn't count

what about chest-supported row? I can bench 67,5 kilo but only row about 40 KG.

bitches aint even looking at your back until they're behind you brah.

Chest/abs/shoulders most aesthetic

well, in order to assign any fucking standards the form has to be strict. Hence why it's a bit dumb to judge anything except maybe a strict as shit pendlay row, and even there body english finds a way. All kinds of rows are useful exercises and should be implemented, as just about every legit puller also recommends

drink 1 gallon of milk a day

W-wait what? You're supposed to row as much as you bench? I'm just practising my row form and I lift just 40jg while I bench 80kg

It should be even if not being able to row a little more than your bench

>back is most aesthetic muscle group
yes

>Chest/abs/shoulders most aesthetic
pleb

>>trust me bro, you have to do your rows with perfect form or it doesn't count
The problems with deciding on whether the form is strict enough is one reason why the row is not a competition lift. Compare with OHP.

whats that movie?

no because they are busy clawing it with their fingers while you plow them, they cant see anything anyway

Yes you should be rowing the same or close. They are the same movement

Not true. Rows should be about 30 pounds weaker than bench.

row using momentum*
order should be cheat row > bench > BO row > pendlay row in terms of weight

bro! make it 2

>trying to apply some strict numbers across all lifters, of both genders, from 135skeles to 250lbs jocks
dude

youtu.be/kjdrDGlPz78?t=103

>can row 1.5 what I bench
>have no titties, only a hueg back
fuck man

filename, dipshit

>BO row
wass dat?

>vid
these rows have an individual name, but I don't remember it. Cailer Woolam (WR deadlifter, pulls around 900 lbs at 205 lbs bodyweight) also does them. They are a really good accessory for powerlifters, but I wouldn't call them "bent over rows" when talking about them online

>First time rowing, ask instructor to check my form
>40kg
>Hurr you're not controlling the weight, it's too much for you, go 30kg first
AHHHHHHHHH
t. 80kg bench
I bet I could row 60kg or more

bent over row
there's a shitton of row variation, you should do them all (or almost all) to be honest. Seal rows are also legit if you have the equipment

theres no such thing as a perfectly strict barbell row unless you are going light enough to make the lift pointless

585 rows, jesus christ i guess i better start roiding

this isn't really true

the idea of doing a shit ton of rows for powerlifting is an american thing mostly, because american powerlifting culture is partially descended from bodybuilding (and bbers do a shit ton of rows)

eastern european powerlifters don't do many rows and dominated the sport for a long time

thats just called a heavy row. Theres no special name for it, its just like chris says in the video, he isn't going all the way down but who gives a shit hes using mostly his arms and back to yank up 585 while bent over.

>using mostly his arms and back
In my opinion the back prevails, it honestly starts going into a high pull as some olylifters also do.
what I was referring to is youtube.com/watch?v=xGsbwVeTtfk
the guy does the same exercise, the pure rowing is rather replaced by the initial DL-imitating pull. I think George Leeman also does something similar as assistance

Finally, a method for manlets to grow without surgery.

>bent over row
I'm dumb. also I dont know why I quoted you instead of Honestly for me bent over rows are far tougher than pendlay rows, just no way.
with prows you start from a dead stop, you can be way more explosive and it's far easier on your forearms, traps and low back