Is the Keto diet a meme for weight loss or does it actually get results?

eat less calories, that's it. don't go on a meme diet for fucks sake

didnt track it

Ketosis is definitely a legit thing. Keto diets are used to treat epilepsy in children because being in ketosis prevents seizures when medication doesn't work for some unknown reason, and your body chemistry is definitely different. What's a meme is the idea that you lose weight in it more effectively than you would otherwise. There's only so much weight you can lose per week safely, and that number is achievable through any number of good diets.

It really is horseshit for lifting, though. Like, don't even try it. It's not a matter of "willpower" or some other bullshit. Keto diets will not supply your muscles with the needed glycogen. You'll see magazines run stories for the TKD or CKD, where you carb load after you workout or once a week after total glycogen depletion, and they hypothetically allow you to do heavy lifting while in ketosis, but they smell like memey bullshit, and even best case scenario they're more trouble than they're worth.

You could also eat carbs and be full by selecting high-fiber carbs

keto makes you smell good cause no fiber

It works. I was fat and lost that fat on it.

There's disinfo people here who get triggered at "meme diets", but I can tell you from experience it's quick and legit. It's very hard tho.

for example?

Keto is for brainlets who can't figure out their diet.
Perfect for women.

would keto be good for a diabetic? that seems to be my problem with most diets is my lows are constant, I do take glucose tablets and liquids now but before I was just eating to counter lows thus harder to not do calorie cutting like i'd like to.

Have gone from 270lbs (5'9) to 170lbs since mid January with keto. When I can begin to put money into food and basic lifting equipment as well as taking off the last 20-30lbs of fat on me, I'll start eating some carbs more regularly again because performance.
To be fair, once you get out of that "flu" stage, you're going to have more energy than normal. You require less sleep and your brain just feels like it's functioning better. I figure I'll still use the ketogenic state for the rest of my life for those reasons and all the anti inflammatory stuff. But when lifting, some carbs are nice for that last 10-20% of performance. Keto gives me the "torque" in a sense to get moving due to the mental glow and this odd urge to run and be acyive, but carbs are the "horsepower" if you need to push through sets. Keto seems to be a great cutting tool for most.

Keto is literally for people who don't know how to eat so they pick up some meme diet to do it for them.

>omg I'm feeling so much better now that I'm not living off donuts and coke anymore!

You'd feel even better if you'd include good carbs like oats, lentils, potatoes or beans.

reddit/keto

It's a diet for fat as fat fucks to lose a bit of weight while continuing to eat their bacon cooked in butter.

Normal fit people don't actually do this diet.

>Is the Keto diet a meme for weight loss
Doing keto is completely irrelevant to weight loss
>or does it actually get results?
Being in a caloric deficit gets results

Everything to do with carbs and insulin about weight loss

Keto can be a highly effective tool.

Keto means many things to many people, but very few people actually understand it.

/fit is horrible place to discuss Keto

>It's a diet for fat as fat fucks to lose a bit of weight
And if it works, what's the problem? It's like you want fat people to stay fat.

Plenty of fit people effectively use keto diet. Many reasons exists to use a keto diet.

I personally used keto when I needed to make a specific weight. Personally while it worked for my needs performance suffered during the cut drastically much more so than the same calories on a balanced diet, but on the upside I was less hungry and found for me at least this was the easiest way to shift water weight in a very short time period.

To each there own you have every right to your useless opinion.

>what's the problem?

They learn nothing and yoyo back once the decide to "stop being on a diet".

studies \ reference plz

Which is the same thing they do on any diet. You gotta do better than that.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4603544/
This is probably the most heavily controlled study about fat loss on a carb or fat based diet. Even when fed mostly sugar and with higher insulin levels, eating more carbs results in slightly more fat loss than eating more fat. The only time keto has an advantage in a study is when it includes less calories.

>Is the (fad diet of the year) a meme?

This is why you don't go on a diet but adopt healthy long term eating habits, which keto isn't.

>We selectively restricted dietary carbohydrate versus fat for 6 days
Do you have one where people actually become keto adapted?

There was a really good one I saw a few weeks ago, let me try to find that. The other study disproves the concept of weight loss revolving around lowering insulin by carb restriction though.

>/fit is horrible place to discuss Keto
This is the most true thing in this entire thread.

...

Not same guy.

When I did it years ago I was consuming between 2400-3000 cals/day. Less than 50g carbs/day, generally lower than 25g because I was worried I'd come out of ketosis. Even though you can go in excess of 50g and be fine.

I was losing 2-3lbs/week, not losing strength and in lifts I was tweaking technique on, actually made some gains.

I think it works. But you lose your strength.

fixed

What diet does big pharma recommend?

This study does not really back up your conclusions.

Major Issues:

1) 19 person sample size.
2) Focused sample of Obese people.
3) 6 day sample size
4) Computer simulation

So in a nutshell we have a small sample size that is very focused on a set of people which is only a minor issue in this case. Because it takes much longer than 6 days for our bodies to adapt to caloric deficit the true effects are simple not in this study.

To apply this study to keto is even worst because it takes much longer than 6 days to become keto adapted.

Now do you have a real study that supports your statements?

veganism

It's a lab-controlled feeding experiment. It has a small sample size by necessity, but due to the rigorousness of the experiment the results aren't compromised, as they would be if this was done by dietary recall.

> it takes much longer than 6 days for our bodies to adapt to caloric deficit
You start losing weight on day 1. This study actually measured fat and carb oxidation and got a precise measurement of the amount of fat lost, which could be made into an equation.

Yo-Yoers can't be helped the odds are so stacked against success its not funny its actually a waste of time unless they are paying you and then its perfect.

Most keto guru / cult leaders try to make people believe that keto adaptation is a magical process & once you're """"adapted""""" it's totally different when in fact it literally has 0 metabolically advantage regarding fat loss

Idiocy, the increased fat loss is so minor it is completely irrelevant

Always get your carbs in the morning for energy, always count your calories to lose fat

It isn't hard

Why are you always looking for an easy way out

Nothing you just said changes the flaws I pointed out.

The results are the results over a 6 day period.

Although the computer simulation used past day 6 is science fiction because the adaptations to both keto and caloric deficit both take longer than 6 days.

in other words. a retarded study with retarded people

>Always get your carbs in the morning for energy

Yeah you wouldn't want to find yourself lacking the energy sitting in your car on your way to work or browsing youtube in your office chair.

Of course it does. Again, it's an extremely well controlled study measuring fat loss in a much more precise way. If you think the low carb/insulin theory of weight loss doesn't apply for the first week for some reason but does afterwards, show some comparible studies explaining this.

>baseline diet composed of 50% carbohydrate, 35% fat, and 15% protein
>The experimental diets were designed such that they were 30% lower in calories than the baseline diet (Table 2) and the reduced carbohydrate (RC) and reduced fat (RF) diets led to selective reductions in carbohydrate intake, and fat intake, respectively, whereas protein intake was practically unchanged from baseline (Figure 2A).
>pic related
>that many carbs being anywhere near a keto diet

>The mathematical model simulations suggest that the diet with selective reduction in fat would continue to outpace the reduced carbohydrate diet over 6 months. However, further reducing dietary carbohydrate from the RC diet (with a corresponding addition of fat to maintain calories) was predicted to decrease body fat to a greater extent than the experimental RC diet. Very low carbohydrate diets were predicted to result in fat losses comparable to low fat diets.

this study is hardly anti-keto.

>1) 19 person sample size.
Here's a meta-analysis on n=563, pooled from 32 metabolic chamber studies of similar caliber, that still found an advantage of lower-fat higher-carb

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001650851730152X

>2) Focused sample of Obese people.
Leaner subjects would be even worse off since in an isonitrogenous setting fat is less lbm-sparing and has a lower SDA than carbs

>3) 6 day sample size
Same result with longer durations
ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract

>4) Computer simulation
Backed by a ton of experimental data and basic research
ajpendo.physiology.org/content/291/1/E23.full

Do you have a better one that models this mythical "keto-adaptation" and produces empirically testable predictions? You're the nutrition science equivalent of a luminiferous ether promoter trying to take down the standard model with nothing but empty talk

It at least refutes the idea of carbs being the bane of weight loss. There's no real reason to think keto is special in the first place.

>ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/07/05/ajcn.116.133561.abstract

This study while better than the other has similar flaws.

Small sample.

Obesity baked in this greatly affect anything insulin related vs people who have never been obese or those who used to be obese.

An advantage is given to the DB diet in that it gets the benefit of being first this gives multiple metabolic advantages.

What this means is that during the switch over to KD diet the body is already adapted to caloric deficit which affects the results greatly.

We can go round and round on this CICO Vs Hormones “Insert_Diet_Here” and results will be very similar, but have a wide range of effects from performance to hunger. At the end of the day it comes down to maximizing results. Keto is a tool that can be very effective, but its not the end all be all.

>This study while better than the other has similar flaws.
Every study in existence suffers from some sort of methodological limitation. This isn't religion. It's the best available evidence I'm aware of that specifically addresses your duration criticism. If you know of anything better, I'd love to see it.

>Small sample.
It is statistically powered for a small sample size.

>Obesity baked in this greatly affect anything insulin related vs people who have never been obese or those who used to be obese.
Right, according to keto peddlers the benefits should be exaggerated. In fact, keto peddlers (NuSI) were responsible for the study design! If it was done in normal weight subjects and showed the same result right now you'd be post hoc modifying your claims to the now untestable and unfalsifiable contrary so your baseless belief system is maintained.

>An advantage is given to the DB diet in that it gets the benefit of being first this gives multiple metabolic advantages.
>What this means is that during the switch over to KD diet the body is already adapted to caloric deficit which affects the results greatly.
Hall's model accounts for metabolic adaptation from calorie restriction per se.

>We can go round and round on this CICO Vs Hormones “Insert_Diet_Here” and results will be very similar, but have a wide range of effects from performance to hunger. At the end of the day it comes down to maximizing results. Keto is a tool that can be very effective, but its not the end all be all.
Translation: you've already predetermined the outcome of any experiment regarding this topic and no amount of contradictory evidence will convince you otherwise. Top anti-intellectualism.

It obviously works for some people and there's no shortage of evidence. I don't know what kind of cultural marxist crap it is that every human from every ethnic background on the planet just happens to work perfectly on oatmeal, pea proteins, and kale.

If you can lose weight on the diet, that's nice. If you can keep the weight off, that's real. At what point does it stop being a diet and just the way you live?

My personal theory is that slavic snowniggers probably need low carb diets to stay Veeky Forums and mudpeople are better adapted for other foods. But at the end of the day if you're at a healthy weight, your blood pressure is down, your blood sugar levels are right, etc., what's the fucking difference.

>Translation: you've already predetermined the outcome of any experiment regarding this topic and no amount of contradictory evidence will convince you otherwise. Top anti-intellectualism.

Translation:

I have never suggested that a Keto diet was the end all and be all as a matter of fact I find keto very difficult to do because I feel flat, but that does not mean it is not a very good tool.
CICO is the biggest factor in weight loss. Hormones play a role, but in the big picture its insignificant in the short game in the long run it adds up.

I have critically reviewed the report you used and found it very interesting compelling even, but what is needed is 3 sets of participants Keto for 8 weeks solid, Balanced for 8 weeks and a Keto 4 weeks with 4 weeks of balanced. Then we would understand how these diets affect obese people. After that a large randomized study would need to be done to understand the bigger picture.

The sample size is very small and not randomized. What this means is that not only is the sample not only demographically flawed it is not diverse enough a sample to take into account ethnicity let alone age the sample was taken for an Obese only pool of participants.

It’s a study introducing a model to normalize data instead of using a washout period that really hurts the efficacy of the study.

Nothing I have said is anti-intellectual

What are you basing your beliefs on if all the evidence seems to go against you?

Only criticism is that it doesn't fix hormonal imbalances like elevated insulin levels... only fasting can do that. But keto is legit for weight loss.

t. Lost 50lbs so far

Nigger, you can literally measure ketone levels in your blood and piss.

Evidence of what exactly? Your asking me to prove a negative. Not only that, but a negative hormones that I accept as insignificant when put next to CICO.
The only thing you have "proved" is that with studies are thought provoking, but they have serious limitations.

I have done it on and off for years and started it again a few days ago. I'm down a couple of pounds already but I know this is likely water weight. I am kind of sick of it though but I was stalling a bit in weight loss and this'll get me to my goal. Once I get pretty close I'll transition into a better, more satisfying diet.

Not wrong in my case, admittedly.

I did it and lost 140 lbs. It made things easy for me and feel full. The only thing is you're supposed to eat vegetables and a lot of faglords think the diet means you only shovel cheese and meat into your mouth with maybe a vegetable thrown on the side once a day.

I've only stopped doing it because I have a skin condition and I'm trying to see if including or ridding myself of certain foods helps.

>I have never suggested that a Keto diet was the end all and be all as a matter of fact I find keto very difficult to do because I feel flat, but that does not mean it is not a very good tool.
Fucking seriously? The diet we're discussing is strongly affiliated with certain pseudoscientific claims. Somebody ITT asked for examples and the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis was described. Falsifying data, according to the pre-defined criteria by the proponents of said hypothesis, was presented

ajpendo.physiology.org/content/early/2017/07/31/ajpendo.00156.2017
nature.com/ejcn/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ejcn2016260a.html

>CICO is the biggest factor in weight loss. Hormones play a role, but in the big picture its insignificant in the short game in the long run it adds up.
Vague unreferenced opinion is surely the most convincing rhetorical tactic you could deploy when you lack any real evidence or arguments.

>found it very interesting compelling even, but
After being called out several times on your bullshit post hoc confabulations you're just gonna do it some more? Cute.

>what is needed is 3 sets of participants Keto for 8 weeks solid, Balanced for 8 weeks and a Keto 4 weeks with 4 weeks of balanced. Then we would understand how these diets affect obese people.
This is not the gold standard measure to test such a thing and I'm not sure why you believe it would change anything. The pre-registered pre-approved protocol was designed to either accept or reject the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis

osf.io/9q8cu/

>The sample size is very small
Once again, the study was designed to be powered for small sample size. Metabolic ward experiments always use around this number of subjects as it's both financially and practically impossible to have them be as meticulously controlled with any more.

>and not randomized.
This was a controlled in-patient metabolic chamber experiment where all food was provided by the study center. That renders random allocation of diet sequence unnecessary.

>What this means is that not only is the sample not only demographically flawed it is not diverse enough a sample to take into account ethnicity let alone age the sample was taken for an Obese only pool of participants.
The carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis does not posit any interactions with age and ethnicity. Once again, obese individuals were a priori hypothesized to better respond to low carbohydrate diets. Does your back hurt carrying the goalposts like that?

>It’s a study introducing a model to normalize data instead of using a washout period that really hurts the efficacy of the study.
The model is over a decade old, nothing was normalized, and replacing a computational model with a washout period itself is a category mistake not to mention it qualifying study efficacy. What kind of shitty bait is this? Are you just using a biostats 101 buzzword generator now?

>Nothing I have said is anti-intellectual
Al of your replies thus far consist of denial and low quality rhetorical fallacies like conventionalist stratagem and semantical ambiguity on creationist level. Pure anti-intellectualism.

I mean what are these perfectly designed studies you're basing your beliefs on to disagree with the other guy with? Surely if he's posting evidence and you disagree with what he's saying and believe other things are true about the ketogenic diet, you have some evidence that you base your disagreement on?

You're basically just saying "no" to everything. Why not post why you disagree scientifically?

I've lost 30kg on keto. I feel mentally and physically better on it than off, so I stick with it.

I guess carbs just aren't for me

keto was okay. it stopped my hypoglycemia which is pretty nice but i had terrible insomnia on it and i my lifts felt like shit.

now i just eat carbs only at night and i feel great. for breakfast i have bacon eggs and sausages with heaps of butter and oil, some kind of salad with meat for lunch and then for dinner ill have like roast meat with potatoes or some other type of carb with a few glasses of milk and i feel great

That sounds like a terrible diet

why?

It sounds like it's all meat and unhealthy fats, low fiber, and the one carb source is white potatoes. It's on the same tier as the standard american diet.

youtube.com/watch?v=PbZtsxw8vMc

Dr. Shawn Baker - was a surgeon not sure if he is still practicing. Eats pretty much nothing but rib eye steak.

telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/09/27/sirloin-steak-chicken-mackerel-avocados-make-people-feel-fuller/

shitty meme

DIETS WHICH ONLY INCLUDE UNPROCESSED FOODS ARE THE MOST EFFECTIVE DIETS FOR ANYTHING STOP FALLING FOR MEMES YOU DUMB NIGGERS REEEEEEEEEEE

what about the dairy and meat industry?

ride a bike to work fatass

>rat hypothalamic glia release gliotransmitters in response to elevated glucose and amino acid levels in cell culture
>Sirloin steak, chicken, mackerel and avocados make people feel fuller and could help dieting, say scientists

What the fuck is wrong with journalists

the nice thing about keto is that it removes sugary sodas, pastries, pasta, etc from your diet and you're left with meats and leafy greens and water. that's why it works so well.

It's a meme. Just eat less and count your calories

You won't feel the energy for "sprints".
I did keto for only a month while cutting and you will feel that you don't have the energy to do HIT as well as you would on a carb diet. But your body will change a lot and you will get lean.

It's honestly the hardest diet considering you can't go over 15g of carbs or whatever. Enjoy only drinking hard liquor and not eating a lot of food out.

I was interested in keto until I researched more and realized I can't do it. I am in the reserves (don't get to choose foods while training and can not feel shitty during training) and I basically have to drink every weekend due to being in a sales job. Yes I have to drink, or people literally won't buy from me cause they don't trust sober people while drunk.

My questions is, which diet/eating habit should I follow?

I have lost 30 lbs this year and want to lose 25 more. I do cardio 5 times a week and don't eat like shit. I need to follow a plan because I am too weak to control myself.

dude, after going keto with under 20-30 gramsof carbs a day i have reveresed my diabetes, lost weight likea madman, begun lifting and feel like a king, even my doctor who was sceptical was amazed when the blood tests came in after four months, nothing is abnormal, i had improved my health severely

I do, fasted.
The point was the advice doesn't apply to 90% of the first world population.

cooking
fermenting
churning
canning
deboning

all of these are processes

Whether or not ketones actually do shit isn't something I'm really qualified to say. But the essence of keto is no carbs, but high fat and protein.

Look at all the people who eat a shitload of carbs, but don't track calories and get fat. Now imagine that they can't or won't track calories for whatever reason, and to simplify it you just say "only fats and protein for the next 6 weeks". Now suddenly all those sugary foods that were fucking them up aren't available, and if they're say substituting their pasta and bread for, say, a pan fried chicken breast, their daily caloric intake will plummet.

At lower levels it's a general rule of thumb for normies to achieve a caloric deficit without logging everything.

No fucking clue how it works at higher levels. I've never done it for an extended length of time. Just wanted to point out how helpful it is for people just getting started in fitness.

I actually think that keto is a super handy tool for people who can't or won't track their calories religiously. When given the option of "track literally everything" or "just don't eat carbs", a lot of people will find that the latter option is easier for them.

Would definitely recommend for normies that need to lose a lot of weight, but aren't disciplined enough for calorie tracking.

When I do keto I drink a redbull (27g sugar) preworkout then I can lift heavy

Haven't lost weight on this fucking diet for four days. I ate 900 kcal yesterday... Wtf

Since when have you seen any big industry advocating for meat and dairy because of health benefits?

Normally they advertise these things based on taste, not health.

>four days
lol, you don't even know how this works, do you?
>900 kcal
Enjoy your starvation, idiot.

Why respond if youre just gonna be salty?

4 day stagnation is not ok tho

keto works. but it's hard mentally. if you're trying to lose weight, just count calories and eat decent food. you can have a cheat meal each week, just count all the calories.

hell i didnt even count calories, i just skipped breakfast, had a big late lunch, and a small dinner. i got diced fast. wasn't even eating particularly healthy

there's no set number of carbs you can eat since some people can get away with 50g+ and still be in ketosis as confirmed by ketostix. the carbs you do eat should be coming from high fiber vegetables, that's all.

keto has a lot of memes surrounding it, but it's the only (or at least one of the few) diets that has a load of scientific research behind it. that it's great for weight loss is a side effect, it was developed and studied for its ability to help those with epilepsy and later on diabetes. ignore the bullshit meme sites that treat it like any other fad diet (which it is for a lot of people because they only get the barebones sales pitch and don't understand the science behind it) and read up on some of the peer-reviewed articles out there

>magical state
what the fuck is with retards who never took more than basic bitch biology in college (assuming you even attended) spouting misinformation and painting ketosis as some sort of pseudoscientific scam? you're a fucking idiot and you need to kill yourself

this. this is the absolute state of Veeky Forums. ignoring scientific literature that shows the LONG TERM effectiveness of maintaining ketosis and spouting ignorant bullshit they picked up in high school.

fuck it. this guy's got it right

Keto works for lifting after 2 months or so, lifting twice a day on no stims and don't eat until around 5pm. The first few weeks you feel like complete death.

gnolls.org

99% of studies are for retards. Take some biology classes.

>science disagrees with me so it's stupid