How would WW2 be different if the Nazis scraped operation Barbarossa for Sea Lion?

How would WW2 be different if the Nazis scraped operation Barbarossa for Sea Lion?

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=YnPo7V03nbY
youtube.com/watch?v=kVo5I0xNRhg
39-45.org/alainadam/SEELOWE/home force sept 40.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Sealion actually had a pretty decent chance of succeeding.

Watch these 2 videos please, I think they'll answer your question well:
youtube.com/watch?v=YnPo7V03nbY
youtube.com/watch?v=kVo5I0xNRhg

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The Germans still fail, since they can't establish air superiority or naval superiority, and their brilliant plan was to send like two divisions of paratroopers to get slaughtered by the dug-in Brits or send the invasion force in towed river barges to get wrecked by the home fleet

>Britain has air superiority over the Channel
>Britain has a much larger navy than Germany
>The British empire has double the economy of Germany
>US lend lease
>Germans don't have landing craft
It would be disastrous for Germany

Aha
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

It would have ended in 1939 instead of 1945. With the same result

>german army now stuck on a hostile island with absolutely no hope of resupply
>most of the navy and airforce at the bottom of the channel
the war would end sooner

Seeloewe was planned for late 1940.

Nah, they can't transport more than a division or two at a time. Most of the Germany army wouldn't even be involved.

Not to mention Hitler didn’t care for naval power anyways. He saw the sinking of the Bismarck as proof that capital ships are too expensive and too public when they fail.

ah, sorry

*It would have ended in 1941 instead of 1945. With the same result

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The Strait of Dover has saved Britain from so much bullshit it is genuinely not fair

>Spain
>France
>Russia
>Germany

All BTFO by that thin stretch of water.

When has Russia tried to invade?

>germans try it
>land, get encircled and blocakded by Home Fleet
>germans literally can't do anything to save half their army

There's something hilarious at the idea of the Wehrmacht dying in the fields of Sussex and Gloucestershire instead of at the gates of Moscow.

>britain destroys wehrmacht since they have literally no supplies and the RAF can just bomb them to death
>uk can liberate france in like, a week
>british and french march into berlin in 1940

Would've been utterly hilarious.

>farmers with shotguns ambushing german troops in the woods
would be top banter

Unironically this would happen
Too many Germans would die that an early d-day counter invasion could feasibly happen with a smaller force

They wouldn't even have to.

Germans would literally starve to death in Cornish seaside holiday towns.

truly, a fortress crafted by god himself for his favorite creation

>not longbows for extra banter

>When Britain first, at Heaven's command
Arose from out the azure main

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Nah. The invasion would fail because of the utter inability for the Germans to project enough forces to England to even make a real go of it. Most of their army would still be camped out in France, safe because of their own inability to be placed on the other side of the Channel. It would be a long, long time before any counterattack would be feasible.

Fuck
Greentext copy paste

Yeah, you're probably right tbfh

That said, the invasion would suck up so many supplies that they wouldn't get nearly as far in any subsequent Barbarossa.

Why the fuck couldn't Germany into amphibious?

How hard for them would it have been to make light armored vehicles that could swim?

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on the seaside selling seashells?

The primary amphibious vehicle used by USMC today would not be able to make it across the strait of Dover. Good luck engineering something in the 1930's that could do it.

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It was 1940.

Think of how hard it was for the US and UK to coordinate an invasion of France with most of the German army thousands of miles from France. It literally was lucky it worked.

Now, imagine doing that, to the most heavily fortified nation on earth with tens of thousands of troops still there. With 1940 technology. You also have next to no oil.

>mein furher, we have made this 5 ton amphibious tank
>ser gut, but give it a gun
>ok, mein fuhrer, but it will be a small one or else it will sink
>nein nein nein. 88 Flak cannon. Es is der einzige weg
>....ok...but then we need to make it bigger, so it can still float
>good...good...but give it 100mm armor
>......no?
>make that 105mm
>sir....
>110mm
>......
>ist kein Autismus wie Nazi-Autismus, weil Nazi-Autismus nicht aufhört

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oh nonononno

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>be Germany
>want to invade England
>only good naval tech are u-boats
>invent amphibious assault submarines
It could've been so much cooler AND so much more disastrous at the same time.

Barbarossa had better odds.

lol killyourself

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issue with invading Britain was they had basically no landing crafts, so that plus their recognition of wanting Britain on their side kinda killed sea lion

how do i get hold of blank maps like the one in this picture?

YOU HAVE HORSES WHAT WERE YOU THINKING

go on google maps and take a screenshot

The logistic ability of the Germans at their peak was:
2 Paratrooper divs
4 Infantry divs

Against:
16 infantry divs in the local dover area
At least 1 armoured corps to the north east, less than a day's drive away

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What if they had also not let the Brits escape at Dunkirk?

Something more along the lines of a MTLB.

20mm autocannons on some, 15mm machine guns on others.

Low pressure mortars for attacking land targets.

It sounds crazy until you remember that they were able to take France despite similar odds in that situation.

Wouldn't matter. Dunkirk had 10 British divisions, and they had well more than that, easily enough to defeat a few scattered brigades that could make landfall, even without them.

39-45.org/alainadam/SEELOWE/home force sept 40.pdf

That's of course, skipping over the rather glaring problem that the Germans did not "let" the British escape at Dunkirk, whatever the post-war rationalizations were. Rundstedt and Kleists's reasons for issuing the halt order (which Hitler later ratified, and did not originate) had to do with terrain, operational exhaustion, and thinking that resources would be better allocated to pursuing the main French force.

No i mean blank svg type maps with topography and rivers for editing

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The forces arrayed against France were in rough parity. Fall Gelb pitted 141 German divisions against 144 French, British, and Belgian ones. That's about 98% of the defending force, not about 23%; and even that 23% assumes that the entire invasion force makes it across intact, which is absurdly unlikely, AND that you're using 1943 German formations against 1940 British ones, which is just stupid.

this
we're working with foresight here
h*tler would't know that letting 200k of the brits would really bite him in the ass later

Can you read?

I had to look up what that is, but lol, that has even shorter range. The strait of Dover is 33 km across at its narrowest point. The MTLB won't even make it halfway across the channel. These types of vehicles are designed to cross rivers, they aren't meant to travel for miles in water.

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Have them on something like a car ferry for the first 15 miles.

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except France didn't have the massive problems associated with an amphibious assault.

>thinking hitler could have beat the eternal anglo at sea

It works both ways though. Without allies on the continent, Britain would be hopelessly lost.

That's not the United States

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>Implying the anglo can't just draw on his reserves from his colonies and former colonies to bail him out of any tricky situation

>all these people saying the Home Fleet would get involved
Home Fleet was not going anywhere near the Channel. It would've been left to the 50 or so destroyers they had stationed there, which would've been plenty.

a land invasion of Britain would have drawn the usa into the war, no doubt.

The US was already running the war, user. All that remained for an official declaration was for the preparations to finish and to fabricate an excuse for a gullible population.

>How would WW2 be different if the Nazis scraped operation Barbarossa for Sea Lion?

Shorter. The Luftwaffe had lost 2/3rds of its airlifting capabilities in Holland. In 4 days. Good luck Göring.

>I STILL can't tell the difference between total losses and operational losses.

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA ONONONONONONONOO

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> Guaranteed replies
Top quality bait.

I misinterpreted the data. Sorry i triggered your autism. That campaign still shows how utterly vulnerable the JU 52 was, even against the fucking Dutch. An airborne invasion of Britain would be suicide I think.

>truly, a fortress crafted by god himself for his favorite creation
There's a joke in Poland.
Two African guys in a raft show up on Thames.
The police boats catch up with them and detain them.
The police officer asks "what are you doing here?"
And the guys say "We are invading".
The police laugh and say "you and that raft?"
The guys answer "oh the rest of our people have already landed"

If Sealion was out of the question, then what was Germany's best option?

Surrender and hope for the best.

Don't invade Poland in the first place.

>Kill of Hitler, and ask for peace.
>don't fucking elect NSDAP in 33 election for god sake.

Surrender to the western powers

>surrender
than what would be the whole point of all the nazi shit?

What if it's June 1940 and surrender is not an option?

Bants mostly

No, it wasnt you dumb fucktard? Kraitniggers declared war on USA.

round up all the best physicist you can and have them develop a super bomb and V2 rockets that can bring England to its knees

>5200km from civilisation
Kek

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>Pearl harbour was a good idea

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>I had to look up what that is
Disgusting shart

>Scotland is gods favourite creation

Which is why Britain always made sure to have a shit load of allies

Couldn't the Germans simply U-boat and AA the shit out of the channel to guard the invasion force?

What invasion force? Even if the channel were completely undefended, Germany simply didn't have enough ships to transport troops in the required numbers.

U-boats can't fight. They can sneak up and pick off unsuspecting ships.

How do you "AA the shit out of the channel"?

With makeshift AA boats escorting the invasion fleet.

It's still an option.

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It wouldn't be Nazi Germany then.

With makeshift AA boats escorting the invasion fleet.

Ceasing to be Nazi Germany is unironically the best choice for Nazi Germany in 1940.

* blocks your path *
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)

The US was in a shooting war with the krauts by early to mid 1941. They knew the bongs were going to fold without their support.

Not from their point of view.

Yes, from their point of view, considering they avoid hanging.

Ok, so let's imagine G*rmany pretends to be retarded as Stalin rearms and expands the red army for an invasion in 1943
Even so, g*rmans can't really land more than 20k fallschirmjagers by paradrop and glider and maybe 30k more infantry by boats without heavy equipment. Even with a shift of the operation to 1941, the Kriegsmarine wouldn't have more than 1 battleship (0 in 1940), 2 battlecruisers (0 in 1940) and 2 heavy cruisers as capital ships, which would be swept away as soon as the home fleet arrives from scapa flow (a week or two). Without heavy support and blocked from resupplying by sea (inb4 air supply, we saw how that worked out in Stalingrad), the 50k g*rmans will be pushed into the sea by the sheer amount of manpower and resources of the home islands.

They didn't think they were going to lose, and even then, they saw death preferable to surrender.

>they saw death preferable to surrender.
Who are "they"? Hitler and Goering? The German people? Where are you getting this retarded idea?
Most German military figures did not prefer death, and Hitler shot himself only because he knew surrendering was just a worse way to die.

The myriad politicians and generals that committed suicide in the last months of the war.

Better idea-build massive U-Boat fleet. Also, order the Luftwaffe to cooperate with air-sea blockade.