Let's just say WW1 never happens. Franz is killed...

He flat out stats that the poles were treated well and Politically important

My ancestors were Slavs in the A-H and not Polish. Tell me what rights they didn't have as opposed to Poles.

The Poles were Politically important so take your pick.

1) There were Austrians who didn't like Austria-Hungary because the Habsburgs didn't pander to their German Nationalist fantasies since the Habsburgs saw their country as an Empire, not a Nation-State.
2) There were non-Austians who loved the Empire because the Habsburgs either protected their rights (Jews) or were the adjudicating third party that prevented Ethnic Autism clashes.

So basically no, the Slavs were not "treated as subhumans". Literally Serb propaganda.

Who and what are you quoting

OP.

Ok you just forgot to erase my post number when you clicked it for the quick reply then

Stop replying to me then, idiot.

never

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First of all.
Russia would never back off from balkans after being humiliated in the pacific, it's fucking unreal. Russia invested too fucking much in balkan spheres to simply let Austro-Hungary get full monopoly in that region. It's also impossible for Great powers to let Austrians upset balance of powers and continue to breaking treaties and expand further after annexing Bosnia in 1912. Austrians already almost caused a war in Bosnian Crisis and taking more chances with Serbia without any repercussions, is absurd.
Second.
For all the idiotic memes and autistic myths, Austro-Hungary wasn't on "brink of collapse" because of multiculturalism, it was a very stable content state which only problem was having tons of minority nationalists who larped for having independence, it could've lasted for more than 30 years without huge governmental reforms, but not-reforming the empire in such a huge timespan is fairytale, there were already many people who were proposing great reforms to the empire like Franz Ferdinand but only thing that held empire back was ultra-conservative elements of the government and leaders like Franz Joseph who didn't want to evolve.

Best chance Austro-Hungary had, was if Franz Ferdinand wasn't assassinated and Franz Joseph dying earlier, Ferdinand would reform the nation into "United Greater Austria" and shut up manny retarded nationalists, while decentralising the govermnet.

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>very stable content state was having tons of minority nationalists

>tons
Other than Serbs this is an exaggeration. In Bohemia the nationalists were completely marginal until WW1 broke out.

Yes. It was economically, militarily, politically and governmentally stable.
Having bunch of retarted rednecks in countryside who can't do anything but minimal minor terrorism like assassinating popular figures, doesn't equal unstable state, you fucking brainlet.
Russia also had tons of nationalist in Poland and they used to do uprisings often, most of these uprisings were calmed down in one week and didn't affect the stability even slightly.
In Austro-Hungary manny nationalist including even the serbs, never did giant revolting chimp outs or cause upheaval just protest their discomfort for lack of representation.
It would've been considered unstable in Serbs and Hungarians were doing race wars on each other, but they didn't because the their lives were content.

> If you weren't German or Polish in ethnicity
Huh? Poles were treated as second class citizens and Austrian government incited Ukrainian nationalists against Polish population before WW1.
EVERYONE hated Austro-Hungary.

Imagine if somebody said that the UK in the 1980's was a failed state because the IRA managed to set up some car-bombs. That's basically what you're saying right now. Honestly, there was nothing fundamentally wrong with Austria-Hungary. They just get a bad reputation because of their close association with the deadliest war in human history.

> it was a very stable content state which only problem was having tons of minority nationalists who larped for having independence,
No possible scenario can save Austro-Hungary. The Polish question means that Galicia would sooner or later erupt in flames.

>second class citizens
Nonsense.

>Other than Serbs this is an exaggeration. In Bohemia the nationalists were completely marginal until WW1 broke out.
Polish national movement was very strong in Galicia as was Ukrainian.

> Honestly, there was nothing fundamentally wrong with Austria-Hungary.
Wrong comparison. UK is dominated by single large ethnic group. Germans in AH were small and other nationalities were of equal size to each other, with each wanting its own state.

All you have to do is convince those groups that it is cooler to be part of an empire than be stuck in a shitty little country that nobody else cares about.

>minor squrmish between two rednecks on the countryside which can easily be quell by a fucking state military
>makes Austro-Hungary unsavable
Christ, the autism i'm seeing.

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ive always been curious about the status of the romanians in AU
how nationalistic were they

same as most minorities in transleithania

subject to constant magyarization from budapest, kind of wishing vienna would change the status quo

general population a bit torn between trying to reform a seemingly unresponsive dual monarchy and seceding to join an unimpressive and seemingly incompetent nation-state

>All you have to do is convince those groups that it is cooler to be part of an empire than be stuck in a shitty little country that nobody else cares about.
>shitty little country that nobody else cares about
Literally definition of Austro-Hungary
>>minor squrmish between two rednecks on the countryside which can easily be quell by a fucking state military
And how did it work out in the end for all of the Empires?
A presence of two nations 40 and 50 million strong is just too strong of a temptation to any competing states not to use in any confrontation.
Either Russia or UK or USA or France would support them and give them money. Eventually Austro-Hungary will fall like the witch she was.

>Austria-Hungary
>irrelevant
Pick one

>Franz is killed
That was the breaking point though.

>polish national movement
>anti-habsburg

The conservative monarchists eventually lost their grip on Galicia by 1880, but the Polish Democrats never managed to return to the mainstream. Organic work (look it up) was too deeply rooted in Galicia right up until 1917 - even in 1915, Poles figured their nation would return to the world stage as part of a Austria-Hungary-Poland.

>A presence of two nations 40 and 50 million strong is just too strong of a temptation to any competing states not to use in any confrontation.
That's the thing. The Three Eagles (Russia, Germany and Austria) had a moral understanding to not support polish/ukrainian uprisings in each country so that their own polish/ukrainian minority would stay subjugated.
Germany and Austria-Hungary even rest of the world would have supported Polish uprising so many times but didn't so that status quo and balance of power would be preserved. That's why uprising like "January uprising" was such a fucking failure that even Tsar didn't notice it.
Crashing entire system for worthless gains, isn't worth a while and Empires understood this.

>Austria-Hungary
>shitty little country that nobody else cares about
I assume your a burger/pole who doesn't comprehend history nor politics, but calling Austro-Hungary irrelevant is one very retarded assumption.

Attached: ! Three Emperors' Corner1.jpg (819x536, 130K)

>Poles were treated as second class citizens and Austrian government incited Ukrainian nationalists against Polish population before WW1.
[citation needed]

>Poles figured their nation would return to the world stage as part of a Austria-Hungary-Poland.
Most popular movement among Poles was Endecja which was pro-Russian

>That's the thing. The Three Eagles (Russia, Germany and Austria) had a moral understanding to not support polish/ukrainian uprisings in each country so that their own polish/ukrainian minority would stay subjugated.
Russia was already supporting Ukrainians in AH before WW1.
Germany was supporting Ukrainians in Russia.

And other powers like France, UK supported Poles .
UK in fact supported Poles in uprisings in 19th century.

>Austro-Hungary irrelevant is one very retarded assumption
It was irrelevant in the long term. In fact its troops didn't understand the language of their commanders and nobody in the army wanted to fight.
Soldiers had ultra-lower morale.
And all the nations(maybe besides Germans) just saw it as something that needs to die and get rid of

Yes. Austria-Hungary being this creaking crumbling house of cards is literally Entente propaganda and baseless presenting made up to justify its dissolution.

Read Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went To War In 1914 and the Habsburg Empire.

>tfw had Willy allied with Nicky then they could of partitioned the fucked out of the AH with the Italians.

Those alliances were technically forged by Bismarck during the Berlin Conference. Awarding Bosnia to Austria-Hungary in 1878 is what caused WW1 in the long run.

Berlin Congress*

>Austria-Hungary being this creaking crumbling house of cards is literally Entente propaganda and baseless presenting made up to justify its dissolution.

There is no way to keep Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs in Austro-Hungary besides political terror which AH simply doesn't have capability to conduct.
In event of CP victory the German Empire would have to take up the necessary measures and provide an occupational force to subdue the local population.

You're an idiot. Those Poles and Czechs wanted just more representation and greater autonomy of their crownlands, they didn't want to break the empire apart.

>Those Poles and Czechs wanted just more representation and greater autonomy of their crownlands, they didn't want to break the empire apart.
Monkey, both Poles and Czechs wanted to have their own states not be under the boot of Germans in AH.
There is absolutely no way for Poles to remain in Austro-Hungary if Poland is formed.
If CP form Poland, it is is over for any semblence of loyalty of Poles towards AH. Their ultimate goal was always their own state.
And if Poles get a state-Ukrainians and Czechs will want one too. And in fact Germans were fascinated by giving Ukrainians one to counterbalance Poland in Central Europe.
There was absolutely no way for Austro-Hungary to survive.
And that's good. It was an artificial mistake that nobody really liked.
Austrians didn't like it, Hungarians didn't like it, Poles didn't like it. Czechs didn't like it.
That's the thing. Nobody had any loyalty to this state.It was just a temporary state before they could form their own states

Prove it.

>Less well recognized, both by diplomats and soldiers at the time and, until recently, by most historians, is that the Empire’s governmental system also provided some degree of satisfaction to the peoples.

>hardly anybody, outside small extremist groups such as Young Bosnia, spoke of leaving the Empire. Reform, not revolution, was what the mass of Habsburg subjects urgently desired, and few before 1914 could imagine a national existence that did not in some way feature the dynasty.

Watson, Alexander. Ring of Steel: Germany and Austria-Hungary at War, 1914-1918

>Before 1914, radical nationalists seeking full separation from the empire were still a small minority. In many areas, nationalist political groups were counterbalanced by networks of associations – veterans’ clubs, religious and charitable groups, associations of bersaglieri (sharpshooters) – nurturing various forms of Habsburg patriotism.

>Prosperous and relatively well administered, the empire, like its elderly sovereign, exhibited a curious stability amid turmoil. Crises came and went without appearing to threaten the existence of the system as such. The situation was always, as the Viennese journalist Karl Kraus quipped, ‘desperate, but not serious’.

Clark, Christopher. The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in 1914

>Monkey, both Poles and Czechs wanted to have their own states not be under the boot of Germans in AH.
Not true. People like Masaryk were completely minor and the Czechs who gave a shit about the Czech question were usually trialists, not separatists.

>hardly anybody, outside small extremist groups such as Young Bosnia, spoke of leaving the Empire
This.

>Clark, Christopher.
Known Germanophile who hates Poles and glorifies Prussia and AH.

There is an easy way to disprove this thesis of yours, and it is to simply point out that Austria-Hungary was able to keep together until the end of the war. Look at the Russian empire for comparison, the Russian empire underwent a political disintegration under the stress of war. Austria-Hungary never did. Also, think about the Ottomans and their Arab Revolt, Austria-Hungary never experienced a similar revolt during the war. Based on this, I think it can be said that A-H was more politically stable than you're giving it credit for.

>>Before 1914, radical nationalists seeking full separation from the empire were still a small minority.
Objectively wrong, as everyone among Poles wanted their own state.
Christopher Clark is one of the scholars with agenda. He really, really hates Poland and loves Prussia/Germans.
His book about Prussia was one big propaganda piece how it was tolerant and loved minorities.

>There is an easy way to disprove this thesis of yours, and it is to simply point out that Austria-Hungary was able to keep together until the end of the war.
Poles declared that they will create their own state immediately after the war started.

>Austria-Hungary never experienced a similar revolt during the war.
There was no revolt, because it was so weak that nationalities just took what they wanted without opposition.

Fun fact, when Austria-Hungary was dissoluted the Entente actually had to send Italian troops to Austro-Hungarian cities to enforce the dissolution. It was destroyed from outside not from within.

There is a big difference between saying that you're going to revolt and actually doing it. The Arab Revolt was real. It actually happened. Surely a similar revolt would have happened inside Austria-Hungary if there had been a similar demand.

cairn.info/revue-histoire-politique-2014-1-page-16.htm

The problem of what to do with Poland would also become a difficult one to resolve. Certainly, it had to be detached from Russia but what then? Tisza rejected any trialist solution meaning that if the Germans indeed allowed Poland to go to Austria-Hungary, it would have to be part of Cisleithania in some sort of sub-dualist structure. Clearly, there were huge potential gains from acquiring a territory as large as Poland, but these were never apparent to Hungarians.

cairn.info/revue-histoire-politique-2014-1-page-16.htm

In March 1917, the Russian Revolution put the first nail in the coffin of the policy by radicalizing the masses (particularly the Czechs in Bohemia), the political opponents of the policy and the Poles. The Social Democrats and the Czechs denounced it with increased vehemence, while many Poles — now filled with dreams of an independent Poland — considered it wholly insufficient. Moreover, worried by popular unrest and convinced of the need for an immediate recall of parliament, the Christian Socials effectively withdrew their support. Only the German nationalists, and then really only the die-hards, continued to insist on the full promulgation of their octroi.

If Austria Hungary was so stable why nobody defended it when it fell?
The teeming masses of opressed nations fled like floodwaters to their nation states and nobody even spat at the corpse of Austro-Hungary.
Try to deny this.

It was actually more stable than Russian, British or Ottoman empires. You fell victim to the memes.
>If you weren't German or Polish in ethnicity you were basically a second-class citizen
Complete bullshit.

Hell, even Germany didn't finish the war without having a revolt (although admittedly theirs happened near the very end of the war), which makes Austria-Hungary the exception among the Central Powers.

That's like saying the fact there was no active nazi resistance in Germany after WW2 means that Germans were not really nazis during WW2. You're a brainlet.

>Fun fact, when Austria-Hungary was dissoluted the Entente actually had to send Italian troops to Austro-Hungarian cities
historia-polski.klp.pl/a-6245.html

On 28th October 1918 in Krakow in reaction to dissolution of Austro-Hungary Polish independence committee was formed led by Wincent Witos and SUPPORTED BY ALL PARTIES.

>If Austria Hungary was so stable why nobody defended it when it fell?
I honestly don't know what you're trying to say.

It was actually more stable than Russian, British or Ottoman empires. You fell victim to the memes.
>If you weren't German or Polish in ethnicity you were basically a second-class citizen

Both points are wrong.
Austro-Hungary had no dominating nationality and no loyalty among its subjects. There was loyalty to Russia and Britain among its population.
AH had no population-just nations that wanted to get out.

>Hell, even Germany didn't finish the war without having a revolt (although admittedly theirs happened near the very end of the war), which makes Austria-Hungary the exception among the Central Powers.
Because it was irrelevant. There was no point in fighting something that was already dead.

>I honestly don't know what you're trying to say.
That nobody in Austro-Hungary was loyal to AH, just to their own nation.
In Poland AH was known as prison and "witch" that tries to mix nations in her couldron.
There were huge celebrations in 1918 when we liberated ourselves from this oppressive rule

Maybe you should stop projecting Polish sentiments onto the entire monarchy you Polish idiot.

You do realize that the Poles were the Emperor's biggest supporters until 1917

Polish celebration poster from 1918 when AH finally died.
"With immense joy we announce to formally subjugated nations the death of the witch Austro Hungary, this evil stepmpther birthed by Wilhelm, she died in much pain, cursed by everyone, may she never be reborn!"

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reread 1918 is after 1917.

>muh loyalty to AH
nah, mate everyone hated this shit, people didn't want to be mixed in some multi-cult shithole

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>>Prosperous and relatively well administered, the empire, like its elderly sovereign, exhibited a curious stability amid turmoil.

A well administrated prison remains a prison.
But I doubt a Kraut lover like Clark would understand this.

How was the old kingdom incompetent? It freed itself from the Ottomans and from Russian influence and it was undergoing successful industrialization.

>How was the old kingdom incompetent?
Everyone looking at the watch and counting the days when it would die speaks of high incompetence.
Other Empires had loyal subjects.
In Austro-Hungary the only the ruling aristocrats were loyal to it, and not even that in all cases.

>Ottomans and from Russian influence

No it didn't.

Oh wow, 1 poster. That definitely represents the entire polish community. [sarcasm]

>Empires
>Modern Multiculti.

>In the three European Empires that the Poles found themselves in, it was considered infinitely better to be a Pole in Habsburg Territory than to be one in Germany and Russia, where they were completely marginalized.

>Some random Polack getting assmad over the Habsburgs ITT.

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around how somebody could think Russians were loyal when they literally murdered their king and his family.

He's the same cuck who constantly spams anti-German shit on this board.

>In the three European Empires that the Poles found themselves in, it was considered infinitely better to be a Pole in Habsburg Territory than to be one in Germany and Russia, where they were completely marginalized.

>of all the three prisons this prison had the best conditions

Get into your head that nobody in Poland that was under Austrian Partition wanted it to remain under Austrian rule.
They did keep up with it, because it was more tolerable than Germany but wanted to split off at the first chance.

>I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around how somebody could think Russians were loyal when they literally murdered their king and his family.
There was a whole civil war to preserve Russian Empire.
Now show me the civil war to preserve Austro-Hungary

>He's the same cuck who constantly spams anti-German
Haha nope
>implying anyone has anything positive to say about Germans after they tried to genocide us for past couple of centuries

>I'm not the one who spams anti-German shit
>next line is literally anti-German shit

>they literally murdered their king and his family
Oh yes the (((Russians))) like Trotsky, Sverdlov and Yurovsky.

Everyone dislikes Germans, and posting facts isn't anti-German

>There was a whole civil war to preserve Russian Empire.
That's not what the civil war was about. Some whites were monarchists but not all, most were actually republicans.

Civil war against who? The Austrian Empire was dismantled by the victors of WW1. How can you have a civil war against people who live on the outside?

So you are saying nobody in Austro-Hungary actually had Austro-Hungarian identity and they preferred to have their own nation states?
Thanks for proving my point

>Le Prison of Nations!
Whig history.

I'm not denying that the Bolsheviks had a lot of outside help, mainly from Germany. But the fact remains that they wouldn't have been able to do what they did Russia had been a more politically stable country. And the February Revolution, the one that actually ousted the Russian monarchy, came entirely from within Russia itself. There was no German influence in that.

February revolution had nothing to do with the tsar getting murdered, it was just a change of government. But that's irrelevant now, you LITERALLY said the tsar was murdered by the Russians when in reality the murderers absolutely were not Russians.

>February revolution had nothing to do with the tsar getting murdered
No, but he was forced to step down as Tsar, and nobody else would take the job, so the monarchy was effectively ended. And this wasn't even the first time this happened, something very similar happened during the Russo-Japanese war, although not quite to the same degree.

I was referring to You didn't say "the Russians deposed the tsar", you said they killed him. Stop trying to weasel out of that.

Okay, so they deposed him, and murdered him at a later date.