Why do Marxists assume that the proletarians of all countries will unite?...

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Why do Marxists assume that the proletarians of all countries will unite? Proletarians are a homogeneous group with nothing in common, other than owning no capital.

Attached: obama-marxist1.jpg (28 KB, 544x299)

MPmaster
MPmaster

i think u mean "heterogeneous" lmao

girlDog
girlDog

yeah thats what i mean lol

farquit
farquit

Because they’re stupid

viagrandad
viagrandad

homogenous
inigo-montoya.jpeg

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Because class consciousness is supposed to transcend ethnicity, race, etc. and enable industrial workers to identify as a group with a common goal.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

but wouldn't a proletarian benefit the most if he could share the wealth taken from capitalists with as few other proletarians as possible?
Creating groups based on ethnicity, race or family seems to be in best interest of each individual proletarian

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

That's exactly how a decadent 21st century man grown up with identity politics would think, sure.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

are you trying to say that Maraxists were a product of their time, caught up in their own cultural bubble?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

I'm trying to say you have been corrupted by SJW identity politics.

Booteefool
Booteefool

X have nothing in common, except the one thing that defines X
How about you stop being obtuse and just say you don't think class is the major identity of a person.

Soft_member
Soft_member

It's supposed to according to Marx but it doesn't IRL.

girlDog
girlDog

That's how every worker ever has thought.

w8t4u
w8t4u

I just don't think it is in the best interest of a worker to unite with every other worker in the world

askme
askme

Do people in the US really thought Obama was a communist politician?

massdebater
massdebater

Maybe, maybe not. I do think that a critical flaw in Marx's theories is that he simply handwaves identity politics and thus simply cannot explain 20th century totalitarianisms which were primarily racial/ethinic.

idontknow
idontknow

Why should they not unite against capitalists?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

In some fairness to the early communists, they didnt really know what would happen at the time so just assumed everyone was equally oppressed and equally resentful enough to rise up. They also underestimated how reactionary forces would suppress or even moderate simply to foil their enemies. Also people generally just want 3 square meals a day and some private time to vegetate on their couch, they dont really want to man the barricades.

The forces of nationalism and localism are much easier to grasp and understand than international solidarity with workers with very not much in common with you culturally.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

for starters, because worker compete with other workers for occupation and housing

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

thus simply cannot explain 20th century totalitarianisms which were primarily racial/ethinic
Well the Nazi and Fascists were great at making the problems that are meant to lead to class consciousness under control by keeping the workers happy (holidays, cruises, kids, kitchen, church i.e. literally paying you to have sex), gainfully employed (work for the Fatherland you dumb schmucks) and giving them a whole load of scapegoats for all their problems.
Marxist theory does a pretty good job of explaining away Fascism.

SniperWish
SniperWish

so marxists agree that proletarian revolution won't happen if the elites give decent living conditions to the workers?

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

fascists "keep the workers happy"
commies starve them to death
Sounds like fascism is far preferable

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Why do Marxists assume that the proletarians of all countries will unite?
I don't really know if it's that solid an assumption, but in theory it would all be based on economic-class vision of history. Namely all political structures spring forth from economics needs and incentives. The leaders of a dominant economic system are the dominant class.

By destroying the master class you logically remove the government that was designed to serve their interests. People across the world would align with their own class interests instead of being conned into their local political system.

TechHater
TechHater

we are all exploited by the rat race and if you willingly join it you are the problem and will be eradicated, just you wait

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

but why would the winners of a revolution fight for "their" class interest, if they could simply become the new ruling class?

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Just like Christians started scrambling to put a new date on the Apocalypse, Marxists after Marx have been trying to reconcile his thoroughly 19th Century views of the nature of capitalist society with the reality of the 20th century. According to them the "modern" (fascist or otherwise) welfare state is just a band-aid.

Yes, an industrialised nation that is still part of the international finance and banking systems can provide a better quality of life than the government of a rogue state. The German economy was a ticking timebomb of debt and their modest prosperity was never going to last.

Nojokur
Nojokur

marxist theory does a pretty good job of explaining away fascism
uneducated, opinion discarded

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

ticking timebomb of debt
Meme. On the other hand you had the USSR which literally collapsed flat when oil prices went down a few dollars.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Could one describe marxism as a modern, atheist remake of religion?

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

There's a confusion of terminology here. Being a "ruling class" or "bourgeoisie" in marxism is not just being in charge. It's a specific action and structure. It means using the means of production for exploitation, at the expense of the working class. A working class could be in charge and rule as much as they pleased and still not be bourgeoisie. In fact they should and that's the goal. So long as they do not engage in exploitation.

It's not modern identity politics were the working class is just some political tribe. It's a mode of living. Like being Christian. If Christians take over Pagan Rome they don't stop being Christians.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

It's unfortunate that you lack the knowledge of Marxism required to see how hard you've just owned yourself in this post.

TreeEater
TreeEater

care to expain to me how i am wrong?

i understand that. i am asking why the guys who win the revolution should create a dicatorship of proletarians, instead of becoming the new group to exploit the workers, like it was the case in soviet union?

Spamalot
Spamalot

most public projects are undertaken on borrowed money
fail to achieve economic self-sufficiency
government economic policy of "guns not butter" is apparent by the mid 1930s
spends most of WWII stealing anything they can get their hands on and handing over captured industry to their cronies
Hate to break it to you, but the Nazi economy was shit, even when compared to the USSR's- another nation that survived off foreign handouts and by annexing large areas of Europe.

I don't think so. Marxism is just a (reductionist) way of viewing power-relations, religion is a framework through which all aspects of life are interpreted.

Methshot
Methshot

German living standards decreased under Nazi Germany so you are pretty much factually wrong but even if you were right your post would miss the point, which is theoretical.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

Because the proletariat are (theoretically) the first to achieve class-consciousness and view history as a dialectic based on class struggles. USSR was not a proletariat dictatorship, it was at the stage before that in the Leninist theory, not Marxist.

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