So, was Prussia basically a kingdom from within the HRE that eventually outgrew it?
So, was Prussia basically a kingdom from within the HRE that eventually outgrew it?
Elijah Moore
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
Zachary Morgan
The Margraviate of Brandenburg was an electorate of the HRE, it grew in power and size and incorporated Prussia (the area of later East Prussia) through intermarriage during the 16th century.
Since then it was called Brandenburg-Prussia. When it became even more powerful in the 17th century its leader, Frederick William wanted to symbolize this power by elevating the state to a kingdom.
The name Prussia was chosen instead of Brandenburg or even Brandenburg-Prussia because the area of Prussia lay outside the HRE unlike Brandenburg, which means it was a fully sovereign state. This was important to tell Austria (the rulers of the HRE) to fuck off.
Jaxon Cox
Prussia was a military that happened to get control of a large chunk of german land.
Camden Stewart
That's pretty interesting. I'd guess part of the reason for the war between Austria and Prussia was that the former wanted to assimilate the latter.
Nathaniel Taylor
>the former wanted to assimilate the latter
What was the problem with this?
Jacob Hughes
not really desu, it was more about settling the question on who would dominate the other German states (if you're talking about the war of 1866)
Austria wasn't as aggressive as Prussia in its policies on Germany
Hunter Fisher
I see. Thanks. I'm getting interested in the history of Germany, particularly the medieval and early modern periods. Don't suppose you could recommend any decent reading material? I've been looking around, but haven't decided where I should start yet.
Nathaniel Ross
>Be Habsburg
>Carefully juggle dozens of powers and alliances to retain control over the HRE and your balkan possessions, keep turks and frogs out and slavs friendly
>Be Prussia
>Attack neighbouring provinces like you're in some kind of videogame, fight a triple front war against the greatest powers of europe, cheese battles with your superior tactical skills, only survive because the new tzar is a prussaboo
Ayden Martinez
I recently bought Neil MacGregor's Germany: Memories of a Nation, I've only read a small part yet but it seems to cover the entire German history with some detail and also includes many illustrations, paintings and maps (for the children among us). It also has good ratings.
T b h until the formation of the German Empire Prussian leaders always waged wars that were carefully planned and made sense (with the exception of overrated Frederick II - I admire him more for his interior policies than his military achievements)
They mostly picked the right sides in for example
the Great Northern War
the War of the Spanish succession
the Partitions of Poland
the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars
the German wars of unification
Ethan Sanders
Prussian betrayal of Poland in 1655. A duchy created by Poland out of mercy to Teutons' last grand master. Rulers were Polish senators and were given a free rein how to rule their duchy. Later on, Poland propped it up several times, even refusing to kick the Hohenzolern dukes out when their other dominions are occupied by Sweden in the Thirty Years' War.
When Poland got invaded by Sweden, the duke switches sides and joins Sweden laying foundation to the Prussia that so many autists love that much.
>prussia takes polish lands that poland held for millennia
>proceed to oppress poles, take away their land, tax them, deny them education, kick some out just because and outright kill them
>hundred years of trying to extinguish all that's polish
>Friedrich boasts about how wealthy and orderly poland was to his brother while lies to german aristocracy so he doesnt have to share. Those letters still exists. He wrote how he will completely remove poles.
>Bismark openly in all european courts call poles dogs and wolfes and vermin to be slaughtered
>despite all that at the end of ww1 those lands are still overwhelmingly polish. Becasue of all that shit poles despise germans and hold dearly on polish language for all those years.
Grayson Wright
>Over 516,000 individual art pieces were taken.[10] The exact number is uncertain as not all art was registered, and much of that documentation was lost as well.[10][12] Assessment of losses began during World War II under the auspices of the Polish government in exile and the Polish Underground State; in 1944, Karol Estreicher published in London the first work on this subject, Cultural Losses of Poland.[10] A 2010 estimate gave a figure of 75% for the percentage of cultural heritage lost by Poland during the war[3] (though that estimate covers both destroyed and lost cultural heritage).[9] The looted art included 11,000 paintings by Polish painters; 2,800 paintings by other European painters; 1,400 sculptures; 75,000 manuscripts; 25,000 maps, 22,000 books printed before 1800 (starodruki); 300,000 graphics, and hundreds of thousands of other items of artistic and historical value.[14] The number of looted or destroyed books is estimated at 1.5 million[14] to as high as 15[9] or 22 million.[10] Even exotic animals were taken from the zoos.[15]
Oliver Foster
What is known as the Kingdom of Prussia and the state that followed is the margraviate of Brandenburg on steroids, and Brandenburg was never a vassal of Poland.
Therefore this can't be called a betrayal.
quit whining on every thread related to Prussia
Cooper Martin
Your post is completely unrelated to this thread. And so is the battle. Your knowledge about this region is also pathetically non-existent. Fuck off back to /int/ swedshit. I'm tired of correcting your idiocy every time you decide to sperg out.
Jason Campbell
Brandenburg acquired Prussia after Prussia was a Polish vassal in 1594 when Joachim Sigismund of Brandenburg married Anna of Prussia, which gave Brandenburg the rights to the duchy of Prussia.
Since Prussia wasn't an independent state, but owned by Brandenburg (de facto) and Poland (on paper), this conflict between "Prussia" (Brandenburg) and Poland is not a betrayal - or you must show me when Brandenburg was a vassal of Poland.
The duchy of Prussia was finally taken by Brandenburg when they btfo'd Poland fair and square in the second Northern war:
>The Hohenzollern dynasty of Brandenburg was also confirmed as independent and sovereign over the Duchy of Prussia; previously they had held the territory as a fief of Poland. In case of an end to the Hohenzollern dynasty in Prussia, the territory was to revert to the Polish crown. The treaty was achieved by Brandenburg's diplomat, Christoph Caspar von Blumenthal, on the first diplomatic mission of his career.
en.wikipedia.org
now go on and post more pictures of the Prussian homage and how this was betrayal and shit, but it won't change what happened.
Isaac Morris
>Be Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
>Just be done with a huge war with the Ottomans
>Cossack chimp out causes you to enter bloody civil war, ravaging your lands and population
>Cossacks in their infinite wisdom invite the Russian Tsar to take them over
>War with the Russians start
>Further destruction
>Beta Swedes decide now it's the time to attack
>Some Lithuanian magnate goes traitor and sides with the swedes, alongside the nobles in the western-most part of the country, which never saw war since the Teutonic Order.
>Even Russians see that they cannot give honorless Sven any chances and make truce with the Commonwealth
>Swedes do more damage to Poland than World War 2 did
>When Poles see Swedes are just an equivalent of basketball americans they chimp out en masse and kick Swedes out, right after the tolerant and diverse Norseman tries to burn down and loot the holiest place in all of Poland
>War with Sweden done, war with Russia resumes
>Fastforward to modern day
>Roughly 20%-30% of all exhibits in Swedish museums are actually what they stole in Poland
Fuck off back to /int/.
Evan Flores
>I recently bought Neil MacGregor's Germany: Memories of a Nation, I've only read a small part yet but it seems to cover the entire German history with some detail and also includes many illustrations, paintings and maps (for the children among us). It also has good ratings.
Cool, I'll check that out then. Thanks.
Justin Price
I'm not a Swede you schizo
Xavier Reed
Kek to Polish history.
Kayden Peterson
Sure, you're not.
You're the same /int/ swedshit that spamms picture of this on battle and claims theere were WH present at this battle.
Prussia was obliged to help Poland in this war, they simply switched sides.
Parker Ross
It's also because the Emperor was the King of the Germans.
Landon Evans
>Prussia was obliged to help Poland in this war, they simply switched sides.
Prussia was owned by Brandenburg you fucking retard psycho, and Brandenburg made the decision to fuck up Poland a bit
Aiden King
stay mad wachowski
Sebastian Rivera
>The name Prussia was chosen instead of Brandenburg or even Brandenburg-Prussia because the area of Prussia lay outside the HRE unlike Brandenburg, which means it was a fully sovereign state. This was important to tell Austria (the rulers of the HRE) to fuck off.
Another interesting detail, until 1772 the official title was "Koenig IN Preussen and Markgraf VON Brandenburg" , as he was king of a kingdom that wasn't within the borders of the Reich and Markgraf of some part of the Reich that wasn't a kingdom. This changed when old Fritz "acquired" West Prussia, from then on he was a full fledged Kang.
Noah James
Why did they keep the name Prussia after the dissolution of the HRE? Why not just name it Kingdom of Brandenburg?
Blake Martinez
What sounds better?
Andrew Torres
Because you cannot turn a Markgrafschaft into a Kingdom. But you can have a Markgraf conquer a Kingdom and so become king of that Kingdom himself and his old Markgrafschaft can becomes part of of his new, much larger Kingdom. Welcome to Germany.
Angel Lopez
>But you can have a Markgraf conquer a Kingdom
Prussia was a duchy, not a kingdom when Brandenburg acquired it, so that doesn't make sense.
Asher Gutierrez
I don't know. Brandenburg?
At least that's the more populated and developed region (by 1700s/1800s standards) that actually has the capital of the state in it and has been a part of the empire for centuries. Prussia was a small obscure region outside Germany.
Wyatt Jones
Not really sure about this case in particular but elevating a type of state to another is not impossible. That happened with Saxony and Bavaria during Napoleon. But then again they weren't Markgrafschafts
Jeremiah Wright
Why wouldn't they keep the name?
Angel Brooks
Thats why King IN Prussia and not King OF Prussia. He is a king in Prussia because he effectively turned it into a kingdom and the title reflects his true power level there, however his title is not valid within the Reich here he still "only" is a Markgraf and Kurfuerst. It is much easier for some turf outside the Reich to be a Kingdom than for a Markgraf to become the title of king from the Reich.
Jaxon Gutierrez
Sounds like a shell game.
Tyler Wilson
>Not really sure about this case in particular but elevating a type of state to another is not impossible.
The Dutchy of Prussia was elevated to the Kingdom of Prussia. But since the official title was Duke IN Prussia, the title got only elevated to King IN Prussia.
This was a way how the Hohenzollern could acquire the title of King whilst still being accepted by their peers as regular Kurfuerst. Like their powerlevel in Europe grew, but their title within the Reich itself was unchanged.
Joshua Parker
P.S. another episode of German autism with titles, when they crowned Wilhelm in 1871 his title was "German Emperor" and not "Emperor of Germany", most German states would not accept it otherwise. Power is in the naming I guess.
Levi Ward
How did they manage to btfo the polish superhumans?
Christopher Gomez
Brandenburg had a good administrative system and collected lots of taxes relative to its size which allowed it to field a relatively large and well trained military