Why didn't China join the USSR? Weren't all communist countries before China...

TreeEater
TreeEater

Why didn't China join the USSR? Weren't all communist countries before China Soviet members? Why was China independent?

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Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Because renegade Khrushchov was a revisionist bastid.

Evilember
Evilember

China and Russia hated each other during the Cold War.
Both were heavily competing to be the 'truest' interpretation and implementation of communism.

StonedTime
StonedTime

Why didn't China join the USSR?
Because it's a separate country? They were allies, you mean.
Weren't all communist countries before China Soviet members?
They're all buds yes.
Why was China independent?
A lot of reasons.
1) Nationalist reasons. China didn't like a bunch of whites dictating them. They had enough of that shit since the 1850s. Even if those whites were red.
2) Ideology reasons. China thinks Leninist-Marxism applied to them as they were agrarian at the time. Ergo Maoism showed up which emphasized the Peasant as the foundation of socio-economic change.
3) It was really just too big that it formed the second head of communism really.

DeathDog
DeathDog

Khrushchov fucked up relations with mao then BASED DENG took over

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Stalin feared the Chinese commissar.

Illusionz
Illusionz

Leninist-Marxism didn't apply to them*

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Weren't all communist countries before China Soviet members?

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girlDog
girlDog

The same reason most of the eastern bloc was not part of the USSR. The USSR was its own country loosely based of former imperial russian territory, and wasn't in the business of adding more official land to it.

In any case, letting them in would mean having to merge their parties with the CPSU, which would mean some folks in existing government positions having to be shuffled off to a siberian tractor factory.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

Can you give any counter-examples? I legitimately thought this was true

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Because Stalin didn't like Mao, he supported several party members against him, then Stalin died and Kruschev said Stalin was an asshole and for some reason Mao got offended about it

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Soviet Union is not the same thing as Eastern Block you fucktard.

Bidwell
Bidwell

Tuvan People's Republic was a thing.

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kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

Oh fuck, I forgot about the Tuvan People's Republic

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

I understand China, but why Mongolia didn't join in?

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Skullbone
Skullbone

They feared the Mongol Warrior and their composite bows

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Buffer state.

RavySnake
RavySnake

cuba, mongolia, vietnam, laos, north korea, cambodia, ethiopia, burkina faso, probably a lot of other communist regimes in africa, uuuuuh, zaire, the eastern bloc countries too so poland, east germany, czechoslovakia, hungary, bulgaria, romania, not to mention yugoslavia and albania which were in eastern europe, communist, and not allied with the USSR

The USSR was mostly just the Russian Empire 2.0 feat. Marx sans Finland and in fact no countries joined the USSR following WW2 and none of those actually joined willingly.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

The USSR was mostly just the Russian Empire 2.0 feat.
It was actually smaller as it didn't own Poland.

FastChef
FastChef

If Stalin had called for a referendum in any eastern bloc country to be admitted in the Union, it would have passed.
I mean, mostly because the vote wouldn't be fair, but hey, if he wanted to he could have.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

Before Red China there was Tannu Tuva, Mongolia, and the whole of the Eastern Bloc. (Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Albania, Yugoslavia and East Germany).

The Soviet Union annexing so much land would have been rightfully seen as imperialism, and it would have provoked massive unrest. Instead they chose to portray themselves as "liberators" while looting the countries they occupied.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Why didn't China join the USSR?
If you were now in charge of a country would you give up power for the benevolent rule of another dictatorship?
Weren't all communist countries before China Soviet members?
No, but effectively vassal states.The republics in the USSR were apart of the USSR because they were inherited from the Russian Empire. But the communist states created out of the wake of WW2 were officially independent. The USSR set up those governments and had troops stationed in them. China's CCP was locally grown, but was initially heavily supported by the Soviets.

Although publically communism's goal is a world wide revolution that will lead to the absence of states, governments, and private property.Those in charge seem to be pretty happy sticking with the transitional proletariat dictatorship that Lenin came up with.
I wonder why...

whereismyname
whereismyname

If Stalin had called for a referendum in any eastern bloc country to be admitted in the Union, it would have passed.
Source: Anûs

happy_sad
happy_sad

Stalin had already done so in the baltics. Again, you can do anything if you rig a vote.

takes2long
takes2long

Although publically communism's goal is a world wide revolution that will lead to the absence of states, governments, and private property
Stalin held a very public idea of "communism in one country". He didn't keep his ideas a secret

w8t4u
w8t4u

He annexed the Baltics first. You first need to have full control in order to be able to rig anything.

Inmate
Inmate

And if Stalin had called a referendum on whether the Ukrainians were happy that they starved I'm pretty sure they would've said they were

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Stalin was an asshole and viewed the Chinese as inferior communists.

Hilarious looking at things nowadays lmao

Emberfire
Emberfire

Well, considering that China hasn't even been vaguely communist for decades now, I'd say he was right.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Hilarious looking at things nowadays lmao
"Socialism is with Chinese characteristics"
Seems he was right

DeathDog
DeathDog

He had the red army occupy the place before reforming the civil government into one that, after "election", would vote for annexation.
Every bit of that was in place in the countries it ran the germans out of, the only thing missing is annexation. Because, of course, it'd be kinda problematic in context, for reasons already explained itt.

Illusionz
Illusionz

Every bit of that was in place in the countries it ran the germans out of
Um, no it wasn't? Romania defected, Hungary defected, Czechoslovakia had national uprisings the Soviets supported, Yugoslavia was mostly taken by partisans the only countries it's true for is Poland, Germany and Bulgaria

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

t-that isn’t communism!

viagrandad
viagrandad

If I call my command economy with private enterprise communist then it must be communist
Guess all those people who self identify as attack helicopters really are attack helicopters

Firespawn
Firespawn

Yugoslav partians had already established its own civil administration. It had autonomy that the new civil administrations in what came to be known as the warsaw pact did not.

As for "defection", this is really only applicable to Romania, who did so quite late, in which case one would have to count the lot of the baltic states who legally (it really was in the constitution, but like still nobody saw that coming) seceded from the union. The rest, well, it never really reached a point where it could be seen as "defection" before the tanks rolled in.
In any case, opposition would have been the same regardless of annexation, although the nature of their political participation (that of the party, not of the people) would certainly have changed.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

workers don't own the means of production
everything is privatized
"I-its communism I swear! Even the flag is red! Reeeeeee"

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

if it works it must be capitalism

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Yes, basically

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

doesn't fit the definition of socialism
but it must be socialism because they call themselves socialists
Do you believe Hitler was a socialist too?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

Considering most of the economy isn't owned by the State yes, yes it is. Besides if what China's doing is communist than what Japan S Korea Taiwan and Singapore did post WW2 was also communism

iluvmen
iluvmen

not real communism

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lostmypassword
lostmypassword

Are you just pretending to be retarded? Be honest.

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JunkTop
JunkTop

This but unironically

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Burnblaze
Burnblaze

not real argument

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

dejavu thread

takes2long
takes2long

They both believed that the other was not real Communism

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Or Finland for that matter