Daily reminder there was not such a thing as "indo european invasion of Europe"

>Ruskies
>European
They were the first Asiatic hordes.

>Pontic steppe
>Europe

OYYY VEEEYY

Whazu talkin bout Willis? Neolithic people were the farmers and irrigation specialists, not the bronze age nomads.

So was it genocide or the caste systems they built that made their language/culture dominate?

So the theory states that theese patriarchal, violent, and nomadic warriors on chariots and horseback conquered the pacific populations of Europe in 3000 years.
This is absolutely illogical and there are no archeological proofs of this (Consider that conquest happen in a relatively small lapse of time) We only know the language was carried over
This is more easily explained with marriages: since are usually the women that teach their language to their children by speaking to them, what probably really happened is that the cultures exchanged wives in sign of peace.
Also, their culture was very similar: they had the same mythological tradition (eternal return, metempsychosis, etc...)
The whole "Aryan" myth is retarded. It never happened in Europe.
There was an "Aryan" invasion of India, that's true, but there are not "Aryan" and "non-Aryans" in Europe. That's a stupid myth from 19th century retards who wanted to justify colonialism, readopted by Marxists and feminists in the sixties, using a psychoanalytical and fallacious view of history.
Pic related, spiral near necropolis, representing metempsychosis and eternal return, way before the so called "Aryans".

Pic related shows how little times it takes for horseback riders to conquest an huge portion of land. The Indo-European invasion theory is absolutely nonsensical.

Attached: 510px-Gengis_Khan_empire-fr.svg.png (510x331, 106K)

Are you the guy that used to spam the copypasta about how "stupid" the Indo-European steppe hypothesis is, including such gems as "they all practiced Hinduism"?

>Mediterranean farmers
>replaced by steppe barbarians
>Roman empire
>replaced by Germanic barbarians (with the help of Hunnic barbarians)
>Medieval Europe
>replaced by Mong...
Did we break the system?

>but there are not "Aryan" and "non-Aryans" in Europe
kek
genetic distance between Yamna and farmers was bigger than between Swedes and Iraqis

Nah, we're just waitting for ntergalactic space roamers and their FTL chariots to arrive

The false flagger...

To be honest, the invasion theory is definitely too simple. The culture didn't change that much (that's why in the past they pushed this pots not people theory), farming wasn't abandoned, even some new megaliths were erected.

No. First time on Veeky Forums.
Gee I wonder why

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It was the plague they carried. As cattle-breeders they probably had already acquired an immunity the European farmers didnt have. Yersinia Pestis has been identified in Bronze age steppe burials.

It's pretty much the same story all over again, a steppe nomad group expands over Eurasia, creates trade links, and through those the plague hits Europe. Happened with the Mongols and Silk Road, and seems it happened first during the Bronze Age.

Caste system.
Same shit they did in India
Mostly native population adopting Indo-European language and religion.
Today most northern Euros are mutts, and Southern Euros are majority Neolithic Farmer ancestry (Sardinia being overwhelmingly NEF)

Modern Iranian groups dont carry much Aryan anymore. They got mixed with locals.

I don't think there is any proof of this caste system in Europe. In India it survived to this day.

>he types unironically ignoring all genetic evidence to the contrary

There wasn’t any cast system in prehistoric Europe

No, no and no.

>The Bronze Age — between about 3000 and 1000 bc — was a tumultuous period that saw new cultural practices and weapon and transport technologies spread rapidly across Eurasia. Earlier this year, a pair of ancient-genome studies documented a massive exodus of people from the steppe of what is now Russia and Ukraine; they scattered west into Europe and east into central Asia4, 5.

>“But we didn’t know what the cause of these quite sudden migrations was,” says Morten Allentoft, an evolutionary geneticist at the Natural History Museum of Denmark in Copenhagen, who was part of a team that sequenced DNA from 101 Bronze Age skeletons4.

>Suspecting that an infection similar to plague might have been involved, the same team analysed 89 billion fragments of raw DNA data from the Bronze Age skeletons in search of Y. pestis sequences. Teeth from 7 of the 101 individuals tested positive, and 2 contained enough plague DNA to generate complete genome sequences. The oldest of the Bronze Age plague strains came from an individual who lived nearly 5,000 years ago in southeast Russia, pushing back the origins of plague by some 3,000 years. The findings are published today in Cell1.

nature.com/news/bronze-age-skeletons-were-earliest-plague-victims-1.18633

I should be more clear, it's closer to caste system scenario than genocide scenario. The only place where population replacement actually occurred in Europe was the British isles, twice actually.

>patriarchal system
>warrior culture
>caste system
Damn, they are like the original bad guys. Maybe white genocide is a well deserved faith for those devils.

There wasn't a conquest, so there wasn't a caste system.
Still 0 evidences of conquest.
/int*/ shitposter

Okay plague existed.
Now tell me exactly this refutes the genetic evidence out today, that most southern Euros are descended majority from Neolithic Farmer ancestry. It was elite domination and assimilation not genocide. By your logic Mongol spread of the black plague should've allowed the Mongolians to demographically displace everything between Poland and Southern China, which OBVIOUSLY has not occured.

>“In 2015, we and others showed that around 4,500 years ago there was a minimum 70% replacement of the population of north-central Europe by massive migrations of groups from the eastern European steppe.

>elite domination
>gets dominated in Scandinavia by I1 farmers/hunter gatherers
What did the steppe niggers mean by this?

>literally worse than Mongols
>basically on the level of Americas
>no one cares because they were white people

>What did the steppe niggers mean by this?
they mean't that Indo-European women belong to Cro-Magnon cock

this is such a fucking meme

Maybe there was a resurgence? I dont know. But there were major replacements all over Europe, and that doesnt just happen. Where did the people go?

>north-central-europe
>barbaric wasteland
>not civilized settled agrarian southern Europe
I'm explaining why Greeks and Italians speak an Indo-European language today, when originally they've descended from a population that was not genetically Indo-European nor spoke an Indo-European language.

I1 guys cum fast which is a genetic advantage since there's less time wasted
t. knower

There wasn’t any caste system outside of South Asia, ironically the most differentiated societies in bronze age Europe were those like the Minoans Who were pre IE or later on the Etruscans, nothing comparable to the Indian caste system anyway

They kind of did, they paved the way for Turkic peoples to take over the formerly indo-european steppes. Now, you go to the former indo-european abodes in the steppe, what do the peoplo that live there look like and speak like?

There are literally evidences of a conquest. We only know that some people went from point A to point B.
Every european is a cro-magnon.

The indo european invasion is a myth, so it was the "indo european caste".

I meant "there are literally NO evidences of a conquest"

A lot of things doesn't make sense. For having super patriarchal ancestors the Celts seem to be pretty egalitarian.

That's the thing.
It wasn't all over Europe.
That occurred in the more sparsely settled backward Northern Europe.
In southern Europe, with already their own complex societies it was assimilation like in central Asia, where turkmen and uzbeks speak a turkic language even when they're mixed with the original Iranian populace. And it makes sense because, like the Turks the Indo-Europeans came from the Steppe and imposed their language and customs militarily on a different settled agrarian population.

Nobody said south Europe was taken over, it may have been simple elite domination. Sorry if you thought I meant that, since I did not.

Maybe this explains it a bit:

>The origins of the Bronze Age Minoan and Mycenaean cultures have puzzled archaeologists for more than a century. We have assembled genome-wide data from 19 ancient individuals, including Minoans from Crete, Mycenaeans from mainland Greece, and their eastern neighbours from southwestern Anatolia. Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean [1, 2], and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus [3] and Iran [4, 5]. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia [6, 7, 8], introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe [1, 6, 9] or Armenia [4, 9]. Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the Early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

Obviously, because the IE never happened.
Thre turk invasion happened in a few decades. The IE invasion supposedly happened in 3000 years. This is impossible

That one Mycenaean had J2, though. I think we need elite DNA to see if this IE ruling caste theory is true.

*IE invasion never happened.
You guys are trying to defend a political freudian myth from Maria Gimbutas or going even more backwards retarded larpers who wanted to justify colonialism. It never happened, iterally 0 proofs

Or because it was 4,500 years ago?

>all these countries accidentally speak very similar languages
>3000bc suddenly haplogroup r1 suddenly starts popping up all over europe
>"pie migrations never happened goys, trust me, I'm an expert"

Reading some comments I came upon this, maybe you find it interesting:

>Interesting observation made by the people at Molgen: most of Mycaeneans are from ordinary burials, and the most EHG-shifted sample - Crete_Armenoi - is from an elite burial, postdating Mycaenean infiltration to Crete. So, perhaps Mycaenean elite was more EHG-shifted, compared to ordinary people. Of course more data needed to tell whether it's true or not.

...

So how did the similaritites between IE langueages happen? By accident?

>the turk invasion happened over a few decades
HURR
>The IE invasion supposedly happened in 3000 years. This is impossible
Why?

Oh snap we got our first butthurt wh*Toid in the thread

Marriage between different populations/kingdom/tribes
Because horseback riders can destroy a country without horseback culture easily. It takes a few decades maximum.

Crete Armenoi was a woman and we all know how women were treated back then.

It's almost harvesting season!

Just a quick reminder that Indo-Europeans were swarthy Europoid-Siberoid-Caucasusoid mongrels whose only redeeming features were their height and strength.

It was elite though

The Vasconics are the true native Europeans senpai

Nah.
We don't know where their language came from.
It could be either a HG language or a Neolithic Language

sad

>Marriage between different populations/kingdom/tribes

In other words, indo-european elite domination.

Was it? For how long? Because recently they found some elite Frankish graves with J2 or G2 Y-DNA. In Scandinavia pre-IE I1 dominated, in the North -East N1c soon replaced a lot of steppe paternal haplogroups.

Neolithic it sgarra many words with proto Sardinian

>In Scandinavia pre-IE I1 dominated
You mean I2.
I1 is from NW Europe.

The Indo-Iranians were the ones who really made the division of society more clear, leading to the caste systems in India/Iran. But all IE people had some degree of this.

The Celts were not as egalitarian as Greco-Romans thought. And culture can shift over time. Most of the steppe Indo-Iranians were comparatively egalitarian as well, with an extreme example of this being the Sarmatians. But still, pretty much all IE societies are patriarchal, and this pattern is significant.

The oldest I1 was found in Central European farmers from the LBK culture. Many early Germanics had this haplogroup.

They weren't that swarthy for their time, just maybe compared to what we think of regarding Europeans today. And plenty of them had light hair/eyes, at least the ones in Europe.

>at least the ones in Europe
and the ones in China...

No. Women are the carriers of languae, so probably the IE women were sent as wives to non IE european men. Again, the "invasion" never happened. There are more proofs in favor of fucking Atlantis than in favor of the IE invasion. Stop taking the word of a retarded pseudoresearcher with an agenda from the sixties for truth

Every european society was patriarchal.

They had it because HG admixture. All I1 today is because of a founder effect or rather a series of them starting 5000 years ago.

The Tocharians? Yeah I didn't mean to overlook them. But the Indo-Iranians were largely dark featured, maybe BMAC admixture or something.

But those are the ones that had mixed with pre-IEs in northern Europe.

Did I say something contrary to this statement?

Which makes you wonder how could this happen if they were conquered by R1a/b Indo-Europeans.

It also seems like the Mycaneans really respected the Minoan culture considering they basically copied it.

>Indo-Iranians were largely dark featured
no not really, depends on where and when you are
it's a really large group you know

But IE languages are not related to any mtDNA migration, but R1 lineages are. Indo-europeans are patriarchal.

haha don't be retarded.
the Tocharians are actually closely related to Afanasevo, who significantly predate the Corded expansion seen in Sintashta. Obviously their society was made up of both PIE related groups though.

Andronovo was over half blonde and light eyed.

>To help unravel some of the early Eurasian steppe migration movements, we determined the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area dated from between the middle of the second millennium BC. to the fourth century AD. In order to go further in the search of the geographic origin and physical traits of these south Siberian specimens, we also typed phenotype-informative single nucleotide polymorphisms. Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization. To the best of our knowledge, no equivalent molecular analysis has been undertaken so far.

Sogdians are also described as light featured, and many Iranic steppe tribes like Yahgnobi are also very light. I would bet on the Neolithic Iranians as the source.

So what's your point? That the original IE weren't the source of fair, "Nordic" features? I agree.

That's why I said "largely". They were an extremely genetically diverse population and really more of a linguistic group.

BMAC were literally Indo-Iranians, the proto-Indo-Aryans. Not proto-Indo-Iranians though.

Or perhaps the elevated Caucasus? Hope the new Reich genomes will shed some light into this.

>really more of a linguistic group
haha, no that's really simplistic.

>That the original IE weren't the source of fair, "Nordic" features?
for whom?

>people still deny Pontic Caspian steppe
WOW

No, they were probably related to Neolithic Iranians. Only after BMAC declined or collapsed the Andronovo people moved there.

>Sogdians are also described as light featured
Nope, there were undoubtedly some who were (Tocharian admixture, who knows), but the majority were depicted as black haired. And Andronovo was derived from CWC. Are you implying that Neolithic Iranians were light-featured?

Indo-Iranians went through BMAC, they weren't BMAC.

The spread of IE languages is actually tied to an large increase in building fortified settlements in those same areas. This could be an indication that the spread wasn't entirely peaceful.

Nope, neolithic Iranians were swarthy and also non IE.
Light eyes came from EHG, don't you remember cheddar man? IE probably had light eyes from admixture before the expansions

Truth my Eskualduna brother.

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except that's wrong

Light eyes came from WHG. Most Yamnas had brown eyes.

Not an argument

By E I meant European not Eastern