He was never strong and all of his advice is terrible

>Appeal to Authority fallacy: the post
As I said, shit advice is still shit advice, no matter who it's from. And the jump-and-shrug is bad advice for power clean form.

>611 squat (622 got 2 red lights, one of them politics), bench 396 in a t-shirt, deadlift 633. All at 220.
He was pretty strong though

That's a clean, not a power clean

opposed to what? your miraculously way of doing it? hmmmm?

And natty

*miraculous

There are plenty of people in the industry that are much, much more based than Mark Rippetoe (Izzy Narvaez, Lyle Mcdonald, Mike Israetel, Chad Wesley Smith, Brad Schoenfeldt, Revive Stronger/Steve Hall, GZCL, Sheiko). Mark Rippetoe simply has appeal because he produces a cult around his products and ideas.

It's also kind of weird that rippetards use the simplicity of his programs to justify beginners using it, but when you start asking questions and critiquing the program the go-to solution is to refer to a complicated 400-page book that is hardly beginner-friendly at all.

holy shit i am so sick of these retards who think they know better.

611 squat in a single ply suit. Now my understanding is that older PL support gear isn't as good as new stuff, but it should be understood that his squat was not raw.

>attributing something somebody never said to them and then making fun of them for it

>lyle mcdonald
>CWS
>Sheiko
LEL nice memes kidd.

if you can't understand his book (which is written in lamen terms) then this whole industry is probably a little over your head.

no beginner should be diving deep into the theory while trying to 'train themselves' (it sets you up for misinterpretation and huge headaches) your best bet is to go to an actual specialised trainer. if you can't find one get one online instead of asking random idiots on a Vietnamese basket-weaving forum who'll just tell you three repeated words because they're sick of typing to complete morons.

I saw one video of his about skulllcrushers and i was absolutely amazed at how uneducated he is in human anatomy. An absolute retard. How the fuck do people take this charlatan clown seriously? Is it because he’s the dad you beta incels never had? Not to mention that he’s a fat weak piece of shit.

>notable critcisism
>ITS NOT A BODYBUILDING PROGRAM!!1
>ITS NOT A POWERLIFTING PROGRAM!!1
good critique

holy shit, better listen to this guy then!

You’re defending a man who tells everyone regardless of their goals to squat in a strength range and to consume shit tons of milk.

> 300+ page book
> 1 reference

Hahahahaha

>who tells everyone
>to consume shit tons of milk
>tells everyone

holy shit, you're actually fucking braindead.

>a 1600lb total natty 30 years ago isn't strong
>a 60 year old with a 500lb deadlift isn't strong
I'm not saying he gives good advice, but he was in the top 0.1% as far as strength goes without juicing for his weight class.

Lad I know doctors who’re obsessed with CrossFit.

The fact he has some in his entourage is meaningless.

The issue is that a lot of his methods work on simplifying cues and being able to directly coach trainees. Working directly with someone who can give external influence and inform you which actions to perform and which not to perform allow a much lower volume and much simpler cues to be used.
A person training independently should have more volume at lower intensities to provide more setup, unrack, and first rep opportunities, especially if they don't have a background of athletics or notable body awareness. This is practically the exact opposite of what Rippetoe preaches and what SS accomplishes.

Rippetoe repeatedly stresses that he trains beginners. And followers of rippetoe repeatedly stress that SS is great for beginners because it is not by any means complicated. But any inquiries or critiques about SS are met with "read the book". This either means that the program is complicated because you have to read the book, which means it's not great for beginners, or Rippetoe has to stop claiming he trains beginners.

so talk to an SS coach then. its not hard.

Listen, it doesn't matter who's advice you follow. As long as you're sticking with it you'll progress.

you could follow CWS or cuckolds ice cream shit or whatever meme program of the month it is. Basic programs are squat bench deadlift. Stop making it hard for yourself.

> “Hey I want to get into body building what routine do people recommend?”
> “STARTING STRENGTH SQUATS OATS MILK”

> “Is there any weightlifting routine that will make me a better tennis player”
> “STARTING STRENGTH SQUATS OATS MILK”

> “I want to look good for the summer”
> “STARTING STRENGTH SQUATS OATS MILK”

> “I’m recovering from an old back injury how can I stay acti-“
> “STARTING STRENGTH SQUATS OATS MILK”

just look at anyone who follows ss and see how shit they look. yeah they can lift stuff but so what they look like shit. t-rexes

Your arguments are not very convincing.
Squat bench and deadlift are not a holy trinity, in fact, the primary reason that powerlifting is squat bench and deadlift is simply because those were the three most popular odd lifts to compete in. Only doing squats, benches and deadlifts is certainly suboptimal for bodybuilding and general strength training. There is little lat stimulation, you will have very small extremities (arms, including triceps, and calves). The squat usually recommended is a low-bar back squat, which is hardly optimal for quad developement. Deadlifts are suboptimal for hypertrophy of the hamstrings and glutes since there is no stretch on the muscle, an independent contributor to growth. A romanian deadlift would be superior. Deadlifts are probably only superior for spinal erector development.

"Sticking" with advice until it works is suboptimal, because it eventually stops working and you have to increase program complexity to make further gains in strength or hypertrophy.

Also, strength is mostly a neural and joint-angle specific adaptation. In other words, strength is NOT a general adaptation. Thus, just training squat bench and deadlift produces a specific adaptation to a squat bench deadlift movement pattern. Why can olympic lifters front squat more than they can deadlift in many cases (example: Max Aita front squatted 500lbs before he could even break it off the floor)? Because strength is not a general adaptation.

To fool people into training non-specifically because a confident, cultish but rhetorically convincing texan redneck said so is foolish.

I actually think the sticky needs to be changed

>People are still discussing about this man

Izzy Narvaez IS A STARTING STRENGTH COACH YOU FUCKING MORON. Rippetoe molded him into who he is today, just like all competitive powerlifters

...

If you've watched his latest videos and comments upon those by him, you would know that he has moved away quite a bit from the SS cult. Even back when he was kinda in the SS cult, he had his own novice programs much more specific to powerlifting.

So he paid a thousand dollars and traveled all the way to rips seminar took the tests needed to become a starting strength coach and STILL coaches the starting strength method to keep his credential... Yet you didnt even know he was a starting strength coach on your "call outs" do you have autism?

Even if he is a starting strength coach, does that mean he never made a great critique of the starting strength program even back in the day when he was much more involved in that crowd?

>starting strength method
>implying adding weight to bar from session to session with no changing other variables is a method
top kek

No he wasn't.

good post

this is a good routine

This routine features no progression scheme, no loading scheme, no planned deloads. This is just a list of excercises.

Fuck off, Alex, this is same shit as ICF

no it isnt jason
>deloads for a novice lifter
kill yourself mark you sad lonely fat tfuck

his advice on skull crushers is the best ive ever heard

(rotate your shoulder so your elbow doesnt explode)

For who?
Weighted planks?
Weighted fucking pullups when you're not even sure they can do regular pullups?
The fuck is that?

>Weighted fucking pullups when you're not even sure they can do regular pullups?
okay maybe not for amerifats.
in my country you wouldnt pass junor high PE without being able to do 5 deadhang pullups

what is th criticism of his power clean technique? I always hear people say that's wrong but I never hear why

He specifically says in that video he's not teaching a skullcrusher he's teaching a lying triceps extention you dumb fuck

Jesus Christ, does his dick taste like chocolate too? Because you can't seem to pull it out of your mouth.

He is a fucking meme joke that nobody who is serious about lifting will take seriously.

>several sets for 5 reps for average
>some meme variants of squat/some press/some upper body pull plus bunch of useless shit
Yes, it is same shit as ICF

That's nice.
But the world isn't filled with relatively small and active junior high students from your country.

It's a program for already athletic people who are advanced enough to lift on their own.
Not for completely untrained people to get started.

your wrong.

>smash bar with hips
>I don’t really know what I’m talking about
You didn’t even mention the triple extension

*you're're

He tried to teach an Olympic movement with no experience in competing in the sport. The worst thing is that dumbasses actually goble up his powerclean advice

yeah ss is wack but most of the complainers dont even fucking lift... it doesnt matter what program you do when your maxes somehow are 200s/200b/200d

This is Boris Sheiko in pic

Have you ever even heard an actual Olympic athlete talk about the movement? There is no “jump and shrug”. It’s a retarded simplification of the movement that doesn’t develop muscle as well as a proper clean (see: triple extension)

>Smash bar with hips
More retarded than rippletoad

You’re aware he’s not teaching that lift for people to compete in the Olympics but instead to make the person stronger, right? It’s the same reason the way he teaches the bench press has the maximum ROM possible when the smallest ROM would be better for competitions.

So, if SS is bad, what is the best beginner routine?

Jason Blaha 5x5 IF

No meme, I'm running this program and It's easy and works and people say "wahh look at blaha"

It's literaly only good compound excercises with curls/tricep ext and ab work so if you get fat from it it's your own fault

I don't have anything of value to add I just wanted to say this was a good post user, here's a (you)

why the hate on ss for a beginner? i know 2 people that have done it and they never went trex mode or any of the other memes you hear. i wouldnt know about gomad but if i was a skeleton id try it.

SS is for beginners. It's just about getting a lot of reps and practicing form.

If you barely know how to deadlift, how would you understand the complexity of a clean?

Jump and shrug is just the most layman way to describe the movement.

and "read the book" really just means "pay me".

if you hate SS, do 5x5.

Lifting weights

That's literally the worst beginner program.

There is none, they all have their faults and their positives.

>strength is NOT a general adaptation

>Deadlifts are suboptimal for hypertrophy
Starting STRENGTH not hypertrophy, brainlet

>Max Aita front squatted 500lbs before he could even break it off the floor)? Because strength is not a general adaptation.

You literally don't understand what a general adaptation is. Please gb2skool

He did juice though

>It's just about getting a lot of reps and practicing form.

Lifting as heavy as you possibly can with five reps is not how you learn or get better at using the forms that are described in that book.

It's stupid to even suggest that.

have you actually read it? I don't think its 100% the best, but he doesn't even come close to what you're saying you dimwit

5 rep max is definitely about form... 3x5 at 5rpm is good balance between form development and progressive overload...

You really don't need to read the book.

youtu.be/aXfOdvd-sJ0?t=7m0s

This.

It only works if you run his special supplement

youtube.com/watch?v=TmztIu8r_bM

No, you faggot.
I'm talking too you.

You are fucking retarded for suggesting that.
And if he suggests that anywhere ever then he's fucking retarded too.

Noobs not only don't have the fucking form, they don't have the base of basic fitness and flexibility to pull off those lifts or the basic understanding of why.
You people even go so far as to call them pussies or to JUST LIFT if they feel any pain or have any misgivings.

Lifting is supposed to make the person fit, healthy, and strong. Not be an excuse to lift heavy shit to prove something to random faggots.

You only think that they won't lift heavy enough so that it won't be a disaster when they inevitably fuck it up.

Relatively low weight, lots of reps, lots of sets for a few months. THEN they can dick around with strength training and what not.

They all have their faults, and you'll have to play around with them to make up for your personal progress. Like adding an exercise to target something you particularly are behind in, regards to the rest of your body. But try them out, and you will see results. Do it for long enough and then you can change it up once you see your muscle coming in.

>obese little faggot beginner giving advice on beginning routines

nope, cuck cream fitness is dog shit. kys little man.

Hand in your man card you fucking cuck

how is that not true retard
Getting form right when you are working out by yourself in your garage is a big ass task
You do NOT do yourself a favor by jacking up the weight with bad form

Also in my experience I need to do way more pulling + ascessories or my shoulders start getting messed up

This is true. Mark was never above average strength among powerlifters, and he has always looked like shit. Nobody should take his faulty advice.
SS is obsolete and the sticky is severely outdated. There are objectively far superior programs for beginners.

Dude, I've been doing heavy benching on a weight bench that's in fact older then me since before I sprouted my first nut hair.
I've never lifted with other people nor have I ever progressed well when I knew a spot was a moment away
It made me lazy and want to take risks I could not afford.
Which is how I outright ruined my fucking back while stupidly squatting with a fucking spot while being cheered on by someone who sees lifting heavily as the only goal not getting stronger or doing it correctly.

I don't go to failure on fucking anything I can't afford to and never try to go to failure on exercises I'm not sure about.

That is how you end up being a bad smell that was found underneath a fucking weight bar in a home gym.

Limpdicked faggot with an ass full of steroids who's ego lifting with poor form while buying a one way ticket to snap city?
Fuck you.
You'll never find a single fucking serious pro athlete lifter or normal man who has a fucking life to live and needs his body in perfect functioning order who's willing to snap their shit up because some self destructive twat thinks that the more he lifts the more man he becomes.