Owe taxes this year but don't want to take anything out of crypto

>Owe taxes this year but don't want to take anything out of crypto

Other urls found in this thread:

bitcoin.tax/
irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf
forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/08/15/cryptocurrency-traders-risk-irs-trouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/#6ba927ef26a8
aicpa.org/advocacy/tax/downloadabledocuments/aicpa-comment-letter-on-notice-2014-21-virtual-currency-6-10-16.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>Burgers

Is the tax from your crypto gains or wagie income? Just pay the tax out of your wagie income and keep your crypto train running.

If your sole income is from crypto capital gains, you should always set aside some fiat for tax paying purposes and then re-invest the rest.

It's from both. I haven't cashed anything out but from what I understand trading crypto to crypto creates a taxable event when you gain money off of it.

What country are you from?

US

Usually not taxable until you convert back into fiat. If you havent cashed anything out, you've not converted back, you've no realised gainz, and so owe no tax

I keep hearing both and don't know which to believe. The guidelines by the IRS are really vague.

holy shit you dumbass

its only taxable when you go to fiat. do you really think the govt is gonna take your shitcoins as tihing?

Usually you would be right about the crypto-to-crypto capital gains - but check out the IRS website in regards to "like-kinded trades". Basically, if you trade one asset for another and they fall under the same "category", then you don't have to pay capital gains until you actually cash out into fiat.

Best advice would be to speak to an accountant who is familiar with cryptocurrency.

time to get yourself an accountant then. the advice might still be vague, but at least then you can claim you were advised poorly

The IRS has never said whether or not crypto is like kind.

how do you gain money by having more dogecoins for example? what do you think that Yellen will trace your wallets?
smfh you pussies
you didn't make any gains yet and you want to pay? what if you pay tax now and lose everything next year? will mr taxman be interested to help you then? don't be a fucking faggot for fucks sake

I don't think there is a strict definition of "like-kind", but I think most reasonable people including the IRS would have to say that all cryptocurrency's are like kind. But I am not American, so you should really talk to an accountant.

>paying taxes
What a cuck.

>what if you pay tax now and lose everything next year?

Then you can carry over your losses

Kek imagine trying to pay your taxes with DGB or some shit

>Best advice would be to speak to an accountant who is familiar with cryptocurrency.
fuck that
>hurr hire a professional acccountant
yea because paying taxes should be out of reach for regular people so the fucking lawyer mafia can benefit from it right? fuck them
they either simplify the rules and give proper guidlines or can go fuck themselves

...

Yeah I am sure you'll really be showing "the man" when you're in jail cunt. Everyone hates the tax man, but it's better than the ass rape of audit and jail time if you get caught with your pants down by the IRS.

>get email from paypal today
>CRA is auditing all business accounts in 45 days from 2014-2017
>filed no taxes for those 3 years despite doing freelance work online

literally shaking right now.

imagine those latino womn at IRS going through a 5inch thick book of your oder history including cryptopia and your purcheses of Niggercoin, Doge, Hitlercoin etc
>hurr mr jones, you didn't report yur hurr taxable event, we can clearly see you mad some serious gainz on dat hitlercoin trade
holy fuck, this shit is gonna be priceless

Looks like ROAD REPAIR is back on the menu, Boys!

and one more question
how the fuck do you owe any taxes if you don't cash out?
how do you even calculate your current net worth in cryptos? it's so volatile how do you do it?
is it a specific month day hour minute second? what if by the time you get your paperwork btc drops by 50%

are you all retarded? if someone tells you to pay taxes for every step you make while walking will you just stand in one place scared to move?
holy fuck you retards

kek, imagine being OP
>be wagie
>spend all wagebux on stupid shit
>have to withdraw monopoly money to pay taxes of wagebux
>must pay taxes on monopoly money to page taxes on wagebux

Just because something is a digital asset does not mean that it's like-kind. Some coins are securities, some aren't, for example.

Been wondering the same. It's confusing but ignoring it and saying shit like "le fuck taxjew" isn't the solution especially considering I'm planning on cashing out fairly large gains.

you pay 25% or whatever it is in your country when you cash out your large sum, like a good goy, that's it
in fact if you don't plan on buying a house/land you just cash out via localbitcoins/atm and keep your cash under your bed

bitcoin.tax/

I use this website. I put every transaction I do into here and it helps you work out capital gains. For coin to coin trades, I just do a "sell" event on the coin I am disposing of, and a "buy" on the coin I am gaining.

25 fucking percent? Is that some sort of sick joke?

that was just an example because I heard some cucked countries like sweden take 50% from you when it's a large amount
anyway, good luck to everyone who wants to pay his taxes without cashing out, kek

STOP FUCKING SPREADING THE "THERE'S ONLY TAXES IF YOU CASH OUT" MEME YOU PIECES OF SHIT.

It's wishful thinking and there's nothing to back that up. You're going to get anons v& when they finally do cash out and there's inconsistencies now in their financial records. In fact I fell for the meme and had to amend my tax returns for previous years.

Here's all you need to know:
irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
>1. For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.
>2. A taxpayer who receives virtual currency as payment for goods or services must, in computing gross income, include the fair market value of the virtual currency,
>3. Taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied. measured in U.S. dollars, as of the date that the virtual currency was received.

Alright? So they consider all "virtual currency" as property. That means alt coins too and general tax principles apply. If you do any transaction with crypto whatsoever, whether it's trading for USD, BCH, XMR, LINK, DGB, gold, a house, a car, chickens, or corn, or any other property at all that has monetary value, you have to pay capital gains in FIAT based on the "fair market value" (which they define in 3) minus the cost basis of the original asset. Where in all of this do you people get that you only have to report if you trade for fiat? Just because they don't specifically say the word "alts"? If you calculate your taxes using bitcoin.tax (which was created by a professional accountant) it's calculated in this very manner. If you buy BTC for $1000, and then trade it for $5000 worth of ETH, you generated a tax event and owe capital gains on the $4000 increase in value, the exact same as if you had sold your BTC for fiat right before buying ETH.

>B-but like-kind exchanges.

They don't apply by default. Also you don't get to not report just because you think it's "like-kind". You'd have to fill out this 2 page form for EVERY trade and get it approved. irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf

There's CPAs that say like-kind treatment doesn't apply to crypto. forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/08/15/cryptocurrency-traders-risk-irs-trouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/#6ba927ef26a8

>B-but where do I get the fiat to pay the taxes if I never cashed out.

The IRS doesn't care. That's why you can't escape the system by only bartering. You'd either have to get a second source of income to pay the taxes or liquidate a portion of your portfolio, calculating any taxes for converting to USD so you have money left over to pay your trading capital gains.

>C-can't I just report my final cash out on coinbase minus my original investment?

No, in fact that would be a good way to get audited because you'd be showing an inconsistency in your records. Which is the last thing you want to do. If you report that you bought 5 BTC and later cashed out 20 BTC, you can't just have the 15 BTC appearing out of thin air without making fraudulent claims. You'd have to report every step of how that 5 BTC turned into 20.

Yea, the answer to this is no. The taxable event is transferring back into fiat. If you haven't cashed out, you don't owe tax. Period.

I owe too the state audited me im sure the feds are next, i just turned 23 let me start my goddam life kikes

that's pretty much the standard on most first world countries

are you a neet?

Stop lying to him fucker, refute any of the points I made.

ok mr taxman
lets say I have 50 different coins that fluctuate in price every second making my usd net wrth going up and down 50% every hour
how do you pay taxes on that ?

inb4
>HURRR I DON'T KNOW BUT IRS DOESN'T CARE YOU HAVE TO PAY AND I HAVE TO PAY TOO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH BUT HURR WE HAVE TO PAY, YOU BETTER PAY

Grandpa gvies his grandkids shiny rocks he found by the lake
>le edgy Veeky Forums taxman appears
>HURRR DURRR TAXABLE EVENT, KID YOU BETTER PAY TAXES ON THAT EVENT BECAUSE THEY WILL KNOCK ON YOUR DOOR IN 15 YEARS AND CONFISCATE YOUR ENTIRE NET WORTH HURR DURRR

Use automated software like bitcoin.tax to import your trade history and calculate it for you, brainlet. Do you think that excuse applies to day-traders?

you are the brainlet, If i calculate that today it's gonna give me different resulats than if I calculate that tomorrow
maybe you're too dense to understand that tho

aicpa.org/advocacy/tax/downloadabledocuments/aicpa-comment-letter-on-notice-2014-21-virtual-currency-6-10-16.pdf

Addressed directly here. Tl;dr the IRS has left the door open for you to classify them as like-kind trades in good faith, WITHOUT THE FORM. Until they clarify, they can't enforce a regulation that doesn't exist. Ex poste facto laws, nigga

It's not hard retard, as long as you do not sell or trade any of those alt coins you ow no capital gains taxes. The moment you sell or trade them you do.

If you made 50% of a trade you have to convert 25% andp ut it your bankaccount. If you make losses you write those down on a slip of paper.

At the end of the year you substract all your losses from the money you put aside in your bank and send that money to the IRS with all the transactions you made.

That's literally fucking it.

>you are the brainlet, If i calculate that today it's gonna give me different resulats than if I calculate that tomorrow maybe you're too dense to understand that tho
Ok, look at the way you write, you're clearly the brainlet. You obviously calculate it based on the end of the tax year.

That's not a letter from the IRS. That's a letter from CPA's to the IRS because the IRS didn't say that alt-coin trades are like-kind. Where's the response letter?

Which provided the response they received directly from the IRS on this exact issue, at least take the time to review evidence before you dismiss it out of hand

>You obviously calculate it based on the end of the tax year.
like december 31, 11:59:59 pm?
how do you know the exact rates if every exchange has it slightly different? see you are the brainlet, it's impossible to do it unless you cash out to FIAT

>I trade 1 btc for a shitcoin
>shitcoin is now worth 1.5 btc
>hurrr you need to cash out 25% of that gain fucking ASAP to fiat to pay taxes
>meanwhile shitcoin drops to 0.9btc
>no, wait, it's a LOSS now, lets substract that
>oh, wait, shitcoin goes up again

do you see how retarded that is? fucking madness

you calculate it at the time of the trade, using a price from a reputable exchange. if you do this you can suggest the reputable exchange, if you don't do this the taxman will give you his price

see >at the time of the trade
man, at the exact time of the trade you don't gain or lose anything, if you buy a shitcoin for 50 sats, at the time of the trade your btc stack doesn't change, but you bet your ass it will change 1000000 times over the next weeks

you pay the tax at tax time on the total gain from the year. you keep the records for audit

What the fuck are you talking about? There's no response from the IRS included in your link. Copy and paste what you think the response is.

Oh you're right there's slight differences in exchanges so all taxes are off by default...

I've got taxes to pay because I moved money from a fund to crypto. I held the funds for over 10 years though, I think I heard somewhere that there is a lower tax, does that sound reasonable? I'm in Finland btw.

you bought coin feb 1, on that day a reputable exchange showed price $1, you sold nov 7, reputable exchange show $6, gain $ fucking 5

yea because every coin has a usd pair
>hurr reputable exchanges only, you're going to prison for using craptopia, burn in hell you evil motherfucker!!!!11111

then you fucking calculate the BTC - USD value at the time and you get that price from a reputable exchange meaning not one you fucking set up that shows the price as zero.

this is all pretty fucking straightforward. if you elect not to determine the price in a reasonable way the taxman will do it for you, do you understand what this means?

>if you don't do this the taxman will give you his price
>inb4 he gives you $10 million price on some etherdelta shitcoin and now you are forever in debt

The fact that I've never seen a tax thread without shit flinging like this leads me to believe were fucked. I'm not getting my money back.

fuck it you won't so i'll explain anyone for the benefit of the semi retards who give a shit

there is flexibility in determining the price, there will a most favourable price for you, a most unfavourable price for you and everywhere in between. you want the taxman to accept your suggestion at your most favourable price which is not fucking 0 because you made a fake exchange, if you fuck around he will find the most bullshit unfavourable price possible and tell you to go fuck yourself.

but anyway if the document is true then you really wont have to worry too much about tax on crypto - crypto trades, but you should still keep proper records because of shit like above

But you notice the people that say it's only when you cash out have no good arguments right?

...

yes, the taxman will investigate the hitlercoin price from 7 months ago exactly at 5:49 pm amongst thousands of swing trades done by botes
>hurr this hitlercoin was worth 13,2 niggercoins at the moment of the trade, not 12,9 like you reported. Take him to the car boys.

Yes in with you. There's nothing that states the IRS treats crypto as like kind.

Hurrdurr crypto to crypto might not be like kind!!!

Of course it fucking is

literally what he will do to a degree, he gets to fuck around, you dont
there isnt actually proper guidance, they have no idea, there are faggots who actually think shit like gifting it to yourself or saying you found it is feasible

Crypto is mess, too slow and unstable. I'd rather have cash.

for the fucking day fucknuts, which can either be in your favour, or in your ass

the what if you really mined all your btc as a kid and lost access to the records?
o well I know, we are all going to jail because muh mr taxman
nigger be serious, they will HAVE to simplify the rules, unless they want to build 10000 more prisons in every country to fit in all the neets trading shitcoins

and btw how will they know al the trades from exchanges not requiring verification?
inb4
>they will track your block eplorer down
well you pump your gains through some privacy coins hiding address/ips and you're on the "other side"
they can literally suck our dicks

ok look youre not going to jail for fucking around mining and once shit mooned and you took a bit of time to get up to speed and are able to demonstrate a clear effort to get shit in order, but having the records are in YOUR best interests so you can make the most favourable case for yourself. fucking hide the records if you need to until you realize this.

for exchanges not requiring verification think of it like him looking through your bank statements - oh you sent this money to CME, where are those records?

Hell would freeze over before I'd pay taxes on unrealized gains. Then again, I'm not an americuck. Just move to a fucking Denmark and cash out faggots.

LOLLLLLL

i'm legit scared, no joke.

I was talking about exchanges not allowing fiat deposits of course

actually getting rid of all the tax issues is pretty simple
>You create a legit account with verification
>make fiat deposit
>buy btc
>buy privacy coin with btc
>withdraw privacy coin to a wallet
>create an account on binance/whatever
>deposit privacy coins, buy whatever you want
>you started with buying 5 btc for fiat
>you have now 20 btc because of trading shitcoins that noone will be able to prove because of the privacy coin thing
>you tell them you bought 5 btc and mined the remaining 15 5 years ago
>profit
>taxman sucks your dick

Pretty much this

See an accountant now and do it now. Government would prefer that you go ahead and pay them by your own accord rather than waiting for them to catch you.

you're lucky the CRA is slow, I worked for the CRA for 8 months this year :-)

Meet up with an accountant and sort your shit out.

Well the other problem is i overstayed my visa and I never paid taxes to begin with because i came as an international student. I got married here and we are just filing for my PR now (all the work I did only via paypal was freelance stuff for USA). I tried to enter the SIN on the CRA site and it said it was invalid since mine expired in 2014.

Shit i dont know, maybe i'll go back to my home country instead of filing PR here.

It doesn't matter if it's a bank account a BTC wallet or your mattress, if you're being audited you might have to show.

Your plan for hiding the money is fine, hiding the money actually isn't that fucking hard but you will have to keep it hidden forever which means no lambos.

oh and if you want to hide it don't connect it with a fucking account in your name, at least start off properly and buy it for cash off some fucknut on the street

Sell everything then buy back in. Claim your losses against tax.
Why is evryone so stupid.

I don't want to live in fucking Denmark

of course to live comfy with lambos you have to pay to the jews but I was only saying how to avoid taxing every single trade by hiding behind monero/verge/whatever
I'm not against paying taxes, I'm against complicating things unnecesserily
at the end of the day what fucking difference does it make if you pay 25% of what you cash out or 25% of each gain miexed with losses?

>move to Denmark
>cash out
>move out of Denmark
>???

how much time do you have to spend in denmark in order to cash out tax-free do you need a resident status or some shit?
and then how long untill you can go back to your country without getting fucked by the jews again?

How much do they tax your crypto? I don't know shit about this

If you're a US citizen you owe taxes to the US no matter where you are in the world. So you'd be double-taxed unless you renounce citizenship.

What country you in?

You'll just need a Danish bank account to cash out, so a residence permit it is. You can get everything set up in under 2 months. But I've no idea about visa, so dyor on that.
>then how long untill you can go back to your country without getting fucked by the jews again?
Depends. Do they know you have crypto?

well its completely different. Really all you goys need to be doing for now is keeping the proper records, its a fucking pain in the ass getting it all sorted out initially but its easy to stay on top of and is valuable information for yourself and your accountant if you're in those figures.

Whether or not you want or intend to ever pay taxes you need to fully understand your position so you can either minimize your tax or not get caught evading, for most people on this board it will be a lot less of a fuckaround to just pay, if you don't put the effort into not getting caught evading you run a real risk of being fucked in the ass.

>the united states of cucks

>Other countries don't have absurd tax laws

Cash out your BTC. After tonight it will be worthless anyway

This guy gets it.

Unfortunately.

>tfw burger

Exactly. For all the fucking bitching and moaning about the big boys paying no tax it's no fucking surprise that so few people can actually be fucked putting in the effort needed to get a good deal on it, it borders fucking nigger mentality.

Anons optimizing your tax is the same as making money, it takes some work and effort either all by yourself or to delegate the hard stuff out to a professional. If you want to actually get somewhere by purely evading and staying free it's going to be even more work.

This shit is a fucking mini game in running a business and if it's really this fucking difficult for you then you must know you will forever cuck. Get the shit done and get it done right anons

>This shit is a fucking mini game in running a business and if it's really this fucking difficult for you then you must know you will forever cuck. Get the shit done and get it done right anons

I'm trying. Investing is the first time I've ever looked at tax shit, it's a whole new world.

>I'm trying

That is levels ahead of most anons, you'll be fine, pick a software upload your histories clean it all up and use the reports to get the numbers you need

Enjoy prison

where is this pic from roger from?
he looks mad af boiiiiiiiiii

Im reporting a loss on cryptos and already pay taxes out the ass in miami. Im just claiming that if they want more they can ask me for it its all in trades anyway. Not worried in the SLIGHTEST. Luckily i have maybe 80k dumped into coinbase and have only taken out maybe 15k over 3 months. All were bank transfers of 500-1500.