VEGAN GENERAL

go ahead and eat 200g protons from kale, Ill wait

fucking retard

The absolute state of vegans

I just came to laugh at vegan cucks.

updated discord link

discord.gg/8gAwnX

>the non-European majority of the world cannot digest milk
>this means milk is bad for everyone!

Lactase persistence master race reporting

>2/3 people in the world are non white and stop producing lactase

I live in Scotland. Whilst my country is mostly wild/managed countryside, the topology, inclination, climate and soil means that only a tiny portion of our land is suitable for agriculture. Our vast hills and mountains can't be used for crops, but can be used for grazing livestock. The vast majority of beef cattle in Scotland is pasture-raised & free-ranging. The use of growth hormones in animal livestock is also banned. How can you expect me to take comparisons of land use seriously when you say "if all the land used to grow animals was used for crops..." when this ignores that the majority of said land isn't suitable for crops?

Fuck off Tyrone

Humans aren't meant to live in this area then. There already are too many humans, so I don't mind when countries like Scotland, Norway, Sweden or Canada will have less than a million inhabitants if it means less harms for innocent animals.

Do you agree with the deliberate removal of apex predators to minimise the suffering of innocent prey animals?

>Talking about the ethics of eating an egg
The absolute state of western civilization soy boys should be gassed

Err, a high percentage of deaths from cancer and heart disease is a good thing for a country, it means people aren't dying from malnutrition or preventable diseases. This graph literally proves the opposite of what it's trying to.

>the logic of meatcucks

Veganism solves nothing. If you want to save the world then you gotta figure out pic related.

Literally stop giving any help to third world countries

India is the most vegetarian nation in the world and heart disease is still the leading cause of death

This must be some kind of false flag, nobody is this goddamn stupid

>buuuhuuuu I need to chew more ;-;
>kill others so I don't need to chew more ;-;

>not proving it wrong
Thanks for your "argument", meatcuck

>white people have different bodies than PoC
Meatcucks are fucking retarded.

If we finally start to kill meatcucks, we will solve this problem in no time.

Vegetarian is not vegan, dumb fucking meatcuck.

The meatcuck I replied to doesn't know how to interpret a statistic, so he is the one with the false logic.

Vegan diet kills a lot of people, so it’s fine

If it wasn't illegal I'd round up vegans and eat them up.

You're clearly just acting like a retard to provoke reactions. Not sure what you think this is going to achieve

I get gas from milk but I'll still eat meat so fuck off I guess?

>>white people have different bodies than PoC
>Meatcucks are fucking retarded
But different people developed differently, it’s been proved. Other example: ashkenazi are more prone to have Crohn’s disease

>>white people have different bodies than PoC
>Meatcucks are fucking retarded.

Vegan shill being anti-science as usual, you're literally denying the entire field of Population Genetics

>>white people have different bodies than PoC
>Meatcucks are fucking retarded.

It's verified by science

>The consumption of lactose has been shown to benefit humans with lactase persistence through adulthood. For example, the 2009 British Women's Heart and Health Study[35] investigated the effects on women's health of the alleles that coded for lactase persistence. Where the C allele indicated lactase nonpersistence and the T allele indicated lactase persistence, the study found that women who were homozygous for the C allele exhibited worse health than women with a C and a T allele and women with two T alleles. Women who were CC reported more hip and wrist fractures, more osteoporosis, and more cataracts than the other groups.[36] They also were on average 4–6mm shorter than the other women, as well as slightly lighter in weight.[36] In addition, factors such as metabolic traits, socioeconomic status, lifestyle, and fertility were found to be unrelated to the findings, thus it can be concluded that the lactase persistence benefited the health of these women who consumed dairy products and exhibited lactase persistence.

ITT: Vegans purposefully don't get biology

I'm fully vegan and in the best shape of my life. This is from a photo shoot I did this summer.

>humans aren't designed to eat meat!!!!!!
>can literally hunt, kill and digest meat

whew

I bet your 600 lbs fat ass didn't hunt a single thing with your bare hands even once in your life.

So then if humans are naturally not meat eaters, why do we eat meat? When did meat eating get introduced? Why did only the aristocracy eat this unhealthy shit while all of the peasants got a rich and nutritious vegan meal? Why, if people don't need to eat meat, do we farm animals? It's much more efficient to farm plants yet people farmed animals? And why are we basically the smartest animal if all we had to do with our brains was forage and run from predators?

See, you're going loopy cause your brain wants protein

First time ever coming to a vegan thread. I always thought only vegans reply to vegan threads, because we (meat eaters) don't fucking care.
I understand vegans making vegan threads, because they want to convince you about something, which is not natural and not "normal' for other people. But I thought we don't give a shit. Why the fuck people argue with vegans? I really don't get it. Pic related.

>peta as a "source"
topkek soyboy

I doubt you would. You'd probably rape if it was legal though. If you had a slave would you fuck her nicely or would you make her life a living hell?

Fucking vegans being pussies as usual no wonder you bunch of faggots run low on test. Brb enjoying a bloody steak after deadlifts tonight while you munch on cummus and numale soy meat.

>eats 5 bowls of kale to fit 150g of daily prot
> doesn't get shredded because lacks essentials amino acids which kale doesn't have but meat does
>dies in the hospital because stomach got ripped from so much food ingested

It's simple, people don't like being condescended to, especially when it involves dismissing biology to do so, this is why people have problems with the transtrender bollocks as well

Do vegans like tigers?

Tigers have to eat meat. They don't survive otherwise.

Humans can live perfectly on a vegan diet.

Your argument is retarded.

You can live and still be malnourished, I don't mind animal death if I can live to my peak, whys it wrong to be fully nourished?

"live"

There are vegan scientists, bodybuilders, doctors, athletes, etc.

Do you skinnyfag fuckboys seriously think you know more about nutrition than all of these experts?

>If we are justified in denying direct moral status to animals then we are justified in denying direct moral status to the marginal cases.
>We are not justified in denying direct moral status to the marginal cases.
>Therefore we are not justified denying direct moral status to animals.
Why do animals deserve rights? There are many benefits that come from eating and killing them, but what benefits are there to doing the opposite?

Appeal to authority fallacy

>not presenting a single argument so far

Meatcucks are pathetic.

>meatcucks
Says small framed low T soyboy almond eating faggot

>You can live and still be malnourished, I don't mind animal death if I can live to my peak, whys it wrong to be fully nourished?
How isn't this an argument?

Stay a fat health care leech, meatcuck.

Popoff james

And you’re still a soyboy with abnormally low T levels

Yes look at all those rich people who can afford various supplements needed for a "healthy" vegan lifestyle

And how many beans have you prepared to be eaten with only your bare hands?

And you are sill a burden for society because of your unhealthy diet

>money is more important than health

You could turn that all around and apply it to marginal humans too but to answer your question, the main benefits would come from animals not having their rights violated and not suffering and dying on an unjustified basis. Since animals have direct moral status them not suffering and dying would be a good in itself. Another benefit, beyond indirect ones like health and the envioroment, would be that our moral systems would be more rubust since it would not be contradicting itself. A more rubust moral system is less likely to fail than a system where arbitrary exceptions are made. This offers better moral protection to all of us, and our descendents.

Soy boys should be gassed on sight

Meatcucks should be castrated. Oh wait, they'll be impotent by 40 anyway because off MMUUUH BAAACON

Because it's baseless. The scientific consensus is that humans can get all their nutrients without animal products. So by starting out with a false premise, no one wants to even respond to your follow up question.

>eat cancer inducing, carby, unhealthy shit filled with pesticides and chemicals
>call someone else a cuck

>vegetables
>unhealthy

Enjoy another cheese burger, cuck.

meatcuck dreamgirl

>how the average meatcuck reacts to a healthy diet

LMAO these are the people calling a vegan diet unnatural

I drink soy milk every day and eat some soy protein(tofu,TVP,tempeh) pretty much every day too, my test is unchanged(~26 nmol/L) after 2.5 years as a vegan. My test was actually higher when I tested after being vegan for 2 years but my doctor said it was still within natural variation. I'm a rock climber, only do supplementary lifting ~2 times/week but I am among the most muscular climbers I know. Not big but certainly don't have bitch tits or low T. Anecdote I know by still my experience.

Your morality case falls flat the second you answer the question would the animal hesitate to kill you in a situation it required nutrition.

Also research has shown that plants can feel pain.

there are more meat eater versions of all of those things faggit

>The scientific consensus is that humans can get all their nutrients without animal products
Prove it

Watch the last 1000 Vegan Generals. You meatcucks will not accept no matter what amount of evidence we provide because BUT MUH BACON

Most people would kill other humans if their lives depended on it, does that mean anyone should just be allowed to walk outside with a rifle and gun down random people for dinner?

jandonline.org/article/S0002-8223(03)00294-3/abstract
"Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence"

Instead of me showing you every single study on different nutrients, how about you find one that shows that any essential nutrient can't be found outside of animal producs. That way you can poke a hole in my argument with just one nutrient, instead of me going through every single essential nutrient.

>any essential nutrient can't be found outside of animal producs
B12

>arguments that have been disproven a million times but meatcucks cannot shut up about for 500$

no, that's why we don't do it to people, people are valuable and part of our society as well as part of the social contract, we have rights and for those rights we have responsibilities (don't kill people) Animals can't have responsibilities, so they shouldn't just get all the rights. A human is smart enough and has enough in common with us to not be killed for his meat, those are the reasons we don't eat people.

A pig a cow or a chicken, they're all fair game i'm afraid

That makes no sense, should I not treat a mentally handicapped people with respect and avoid harming/killing them just because they might not be able to return the favor. Also, as the other user said, most people woud kill other humans if their life or the life of their family hinged on it, just like animals.

And no, research does not show plants feel pain. Pain is a subjective experience that requires some kind of central information processing, like a brain. If you remove the brain of a person, they can't feel pain, but they could still react to getting their hand burned(through the spinal cord), or to electrical shocks. But there is no one "home" to feel the pain, the same principe goes for plants. Plants have no nervous system but can through chemical processes react intelligently to some kind of stimuli.

AAANnnnnddd even if we go with that plants feel pain, we should still eat plants instead of animals because of two reasons:

1. Animals feel more pain
2. Because of trophic levels, 90% more plants need to die for equivalent amount of animal calories. 90% of energy is lost between primary producers and secondary consumers.

Is nutrient deficiency the primary reason why so many vegans are so fucking delusional?

Can i still eat monkeys if im vegan?

Is meatcuckoldry the primary reason for the obesity crisis in the US?

so then how do u get B12 without using supplements or animal products?

Oh really? Show me how you get B12 from eating plants. Not from supplements, or from eating unwashed vegetables or whatever the fuck it is you freaks do. How do you get B12 from plants alone? Go ahead.

lmgtfy.com/?q=vegan b12 sources

I think it's the overabundance of food in general and carbs more specifically, It's hard to overeat fat or protein but carbs are easy, and they don't contribute to a good diet. try a 1950s diet, full fat everything, butter, milk, meat, all these things were popular and yet obesity is bad today, where people eat chocolate and sweets and "diet cola". It's the sugar.

Ignore the other rude people here. Okay let's deal with B12. Let's first understand where B12 comes from. B12 is produced by bacteria that usually lives in soil or fresh water. Bacteria are one celled organisms, and do not belong to the animal kingdom, meaning bacteria and any product that is derived from them is vegan. The animals people eat from factory farms, and often smaller farms as well, are supplemented with B12(cobolamin) through injections or their feed. Othewise the animals gets them from dirty water they drink or soil on the plants they eat. In the animal nothing happens to the B12, it's not changed in any way, the B12 you get from a steak is the same B12 that the cow ate/got injected with. This is because B12 is also an essential nutrient for all other animals(meaning they can't produce it themselves). In ruminant animals, such as cows, some of the bacteria survives the consumption and continues to produce B12 in their gut. This can also happen in humans, but it's too far down the digestive tract to be absorbed in any meaningful quantity.

So what vegans do is, we either fortify our food with it or/and we supplement it directly. It's the exact same B12, is absorbed the same way and used by our body the same way. B12 used to be a problem for vegans before it was known to be essential, it used to be believed that the B12 produced in out gut was enought, but today B12 is no longer an issue for vegans.

Any other nutrients you think vegans can't get?

>coconut milk fortified with b12
>almond milk fortified with b12
>cereal fortified with b12

So supplements are the only way then?

Read: If you still think supplementation/fortification is somehow inferior, please explain why.

I think you are way off. It's easy to over eat fat, it's twice as calorie dense as protein/carbs and rarely accompanied by water or fiber like carbs are. You seem to be confusing refined sugar with "carbs", that would be like confusing trans fats with omega 3's. I also don't think you have a correct understanding of the "1950's", neither in diet composition or disease rates. I also think you underestimate the amount of fats in unhealthy foods.

Because if you have to fortify every goddamn food you eat with all the nutrients you're missing out from eating meat, and all i have to do is eat a bit of meat to get those nutrients, then something is evidently wrong with veganism, supplement B12 = animal B12 i know but
1. All the fortifications and supplements are too much for most people to buy and or care about
2. in a thread that tries to make the case of natural veganism, the fact you have to supplement out the arse, lest you get nutrient deficiencies, kind of disproves that doesn't it?

Try eating steak
if you eat too much of the lean meat (protein) you get filled up
too much fat and you feel you're going to throw up
Too much bread, you keep eating bread
Granted, it's probably more due to refined sugary goods being a thing (sweets and chocolate etc) than carbs (although they still arent the best), but the obesity epidemic isn't something that can be blamed on meat, that's just as prevalent as it was before

>Veeky Forums advocates for whey protein powder
>nobody gives a shit
>vegan sometimes needs to drink fortified almond milk
>OY VEY, VEGANISM IS SOOOOO UNHEALTHY *rubs hands*

Not my fault you're both as nutty as each other

We need 2.4 MICROgrams of B12/day and we can store B12, in our liver mainly, for about 3-24 months depending on quantity/duration of consumption. So it's not like if a vegan doesn't eat a supplement or fortified foods every day/week/month they will get deficient. And just a correction, it's not "every goddamn food you eat with all the nutrients you're missing out from eating meat" it's just B12, in some foods like plant milks.

1. If you are going vegan, most people will replace milk/dairy products with vegan versions, no extra work beyond the switch. They can continue as usual.

2.I don't try to make a case for anythings "naturalness". I don't care about what is natural. I only argue about relevant things. If I were to make the case for veganism being natural(which I am not sure why it's relevant, or what it even means) I would probably point to our close primate relatives that also need B12 and that eat insignificant amounts of no animal producs containing B12. They get it from fecal matter on food and dirty water, I don't want to eat shit or die from dirty water so I go with fortified plant food(you eat fortified animal foods) or supplements. Don't see the issue.

The issue is that you are willing to go the extra mile and spend more money to get a product which is readily available for a much lower price just because you believe that the natural way of getting that something is "morally wrong".

Tl;Dr the issue is vegans being elitist sheep.

Please elaborate how lentils, beans or other vegetables are more expensive than meat.

Try eating beans, lentils, vegetables or fruit They are all very filling, I think it's safe to say obese people do no overconsume these foods, they overconsume fatty and sugary processed foods, not healthy whole food fats or carbs.

I think it's unfair to say "lean" meat since I specifically said fats are easy to over eat COMPARED TO protein/carbs. It's also next lever unfair to compare LEAN meat with WHITE bread, I can just turn it around and say whole grain dark bread vs fatty deep fried meat.

According to wikipedia, 46% of calories in milk chocolate is from fats and 20% from carbs. You can check other sources but I think wikipedia is good enough. This I think further shows the point I make about you underestimating the amount of fats in junk food. You are also wrong about meat consumption being the same, meat consumption has increased, and continues to increase per person/year.