Is soy really that bad for men?

plus, milk really isn't naturally supposed to be ingested beyond infancy. mammals lose the ability to break down lactose after a certain period, and it's only recent genetic mutation in humans that has allowed us to drink milk into later life stages.

Well but why would we have that ability? its not like we could instintually harvest animals for it to be a expected food source to adapt to it, we dont avoid milk by choice but because we lack the means acquire it (beyond pregnancies)
just like we are not quite able to properly digest grains, yet we built society around it due to its prevalence

>Well but why would we have that ability?
we have that ability because it's an evolutionary adaptation for providing a reliable source of nutrition for newly born and defenseless offspring who can't get food on it's own. there was a recent genetic mutation in our genetic history that prevented the normal loss of the ability to break down lactose, that is atypical of the normal development of mammals. those humans that were living in areas with animals that provide milk domesticated them and continued to drink them for their source of nutrition. it should be mentioned that not all humans universally have the ability to break down milk. most people of european decent have this ability, but to my knowledge, most asians don't.

Soy has never been shown to cause hormonal imblanaces in men. The idea of "soyboys" comes from the hippie movement, which has always been full of beta males. The fact that some of them enjoyed soy-based foods doesn't mean soy turns you into some beta hippie. Not eating soy wouldn't turn a beta hippie into a chad.

You’re a soyboy. That’s it, no meme.

of course not, now be a good soygoy and stop asking questions

...

Soy is lean protein. Nuts are fatty as fuck. 2 completely different kinds of food.

>being this retarded

Every mammal will drink cows milk if given the chance because they instinctively know how nutritious it is.

Also the stuff about milk containing mammal estrogen is bullshit. You think babies are getting dosed up with estrogen just by breastfeeding?

>declining test in young men
>increased use of soy
Pure (((coicidence))) keep eating soy goy

This is not what a male body is supposed to look like

There aren't any studies showing realistic amounts of soy having any significant effect on testosterone/estrogen levels.

>look mom! I posted it again!

It's the first time I've posted it, it's a frequently asked question I suppose.

>increased use of animal products post-WW2
>1950s is the era where wives became lazy
>10 years later hippies are born
Purely a coincidence goy purely a coincidence

what in the actual fuck
these guys make me seethe with anger, I should look at this picture b4 every set

>drinking soy and/or pasteurized cow milk
>not drinking based COCONUT milk

God you faggots need some M I N D S E T

>regions that drink lots of milk
>europe

>regions that eat lots of soy based foods
>east asia
>areas where average height and weight is highest
>europe

>areas where average height and weight is lowest
>east asia
we're done here

>asians drink lots of soy milk
>higher average intelligence.
we're done here.

Libs and hipsters love beer/bacon/feminism. None of that has to do with veganism. I'm vegan for my health and because I refuse to damage civilization. How long can you pretend meats and milk are good for you? The only reason you are invested in Carnism is because you base your identity off gluttony. Absolutely pathetic.

Milk has about 0.1 mcg of estrogen per 100 mL. 100g of cooked soybeans have 4000 mcg of Geinstein, a phytoestrogen that has 4% of normal estrogen's affinity for estrogen receptors that responsible for feminizing effects, or the equivalent of 160 mcg of regular estrogen. Soy has 1600 times the effect of milk.

meatneets spotted

>didn’t mention veganism at all
>vegan gets triggered and starts spouting off about bacon and veganism and gluttony

This is why no one likes you.

God you're a faggot. Is eating game meat unhealthy and ''damaging'' civilization too?

why are vegans so retarded? they use the same talking points over and over and over and over, jesus, repeating things doesn't make you any less wrong

Just dismisses the points by saying they're all retarded without explaining specifically why they're wrong.

Correction: Cooked soybeans have 7000 mcg of Genistein, or the equivalent of 280 mcg of regular estrogen. Tempeh has 36,000 mcg of Genistein and Tofu has 10,000 mcg of genistein.

>Blacks drink lots of grape soda
>Better athletes

Correlation =/= causation

Pol is worse for your health than soy

For about half a year I drank a daily protein shake made with soy milk and soy protein powder.
My ass got quite big, but maybe it's just my imagination. Maybe it was the low bar squats, fat gain and eating saturated fats every day. Maybe it was my body dysmorphia and depression.
I had (and still have, but less) cellulitis on glutes but maybe I had it since before, can't remember, and maybe it was not due to soy but due to eating fried food every day, fat gain, and stress.
Now I eat meat at least once every day, use whey instead of soy protein powder, use milk instead of soy milk, drink more water, control stress and do HIGH BAR squats. I actually feel my ass leaner and my whole body manlier.

Conclussion: I'm not sure if there is estrogen in soy, or if it can affect you, and if it does, in what quantities.
If you actually want to be manlier listen to me and eat meat every day, avoid trans and sathurated fats (which store in undesirable places), and get all your protein from eggs, milk and meat.

>saturated fats make me fat

Nibba plz.

(((stein)))

Obviously my post was meant to poke fun at the idiocy of the person I quoted who attributed a couple variables -- height and weight -- to a single factor.

"genistein" isn't converted to estrogen in the body, dude you honestly have no fucking idea and your numbers are completly wrong, like what the fuck? Also cowmilk does not have 0.1mcg of estrogen, human milk has 0.1mcg of estrogen, cows milk has 5mcg.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19496976

realisticly it probally makes a tiny difference in moderates amounts

there are more xenoestrogens in other things we should worry about, like plastic

>trans and sathurated fats
meat has a lot of these

I didn't say genistein gets converted to estrogen, I said it has 4% of the affinity for the estrogen receptors that cause feminizing effects as regular estrogen.

sathurated and trans fats are bad
if they weren't bad everybody would eat fried food (which is easier and quicker to do, and much more tasty) and large amounts of yogurt every day.
But if you do that you will get fat stored in hips, ass, legs and tits. Instead eat a steak with baked/boiled potatoes and you will feel (and look) healthier and leaner.

You can check isoflavone content of various foods here: ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Data/isoflav/Isoflav_R2.pdf

Genistein is the most potent phytoestrogen.

So then it would lower estrogen levels by binding to receptors that potent estrogen would otherwise bind to.

Also you're wrong about cow's milk. It has way, way less estrogen than that. Only 0.02-0.03 NANOgrams of estrogen per gram.Soy has literally hundreds of thousands of times more estrogenic compounds than cow's milk.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/

The easiest way to disprove the points of anti-milk lobbyists is to compare the populations that traditionally consume bovine milk.

You can call milk whatever you want, but it is full of bovine growth hormone which is likely absorbed by humans to some degree, and is also plausibly responsible for white Europeans being so much bigger and heavier than other ethnicities.

But fine, eat soy and disregard milk and you can grow up as big and strong as an (?) east Asian person.

You don't understand biology do you? Whether a phytoestrogen or a regular estrogen binds to the receptor is irrelevant; it will have the same effect. If you consumed 100 mcg of cow's milk, almost all of them would bind, whereas if you consumed 100 mcg of the phytoestrogen genistein, only 4 mcg would bind to the receptors. However, cow's milk has extremely low amounts of estrogen; soy has literally hundreds of thousands times more estrogenic compounds.

It's not like we adapted to consume bovine milk over thousands of years or anything and have developed specific enzymes to digest it.

Did your biology professor not teach you that the human body produces estrogen? A weak phytoestrogen blocking an estrogen receptor that estradiol would otherwise bind to would have a net lowering effect.

Did your biology professor not teach you that there isn't a compound called "estrogen", just as there is no compound called "androgen". Are you also implying that there aren't synthetic or otherwise exogenous hormone-like substances that have more potency than the hormones that the pody produces?

Which is produced in the body, testosterone or trenbolone acetate? Which is vastly more potent than the other.

>mfw exogenous non-human steroids are more potent than the test that the body produces

top kek

I said estradiol. Anyway, you're trying to argue as if your estrogen receptors aren't in use any other time than when you eat estrogen. You know that's not true. If you eat something that can bind to the estrogen receptor but doesn't have the effect of the estradiol that normally would, that would at best not increase your estrogen levels and likely lower them.

>estrogen
>estrogen
>estrogen
lmao

>Anyway, you're trying to argue as if your estrogen receptors aren't in use any other time than when you eat estrogen

No that's not at all what I am arguing, I was arguing that you can't simply say "hurr it's not estradiol durr so its weaker". All of the really potent steroid hormones aren't produced in the body, example being tren, which has way more potency than test. To say that exogenous hormones from plant sources (ie phytoestrogens) cannot be stronger than estradiol is just a lie.

>If you eat something that can bind to the estrogen receptor but doesn't have the effect of the estradiol that normally would, that would at best not increase your estrogen levels and likely lower them.

No, if you consume estrogenic compounds that are binding to the receptors then your actual estrogen that your body has aromatized is still floating around the bloodstream, waiting to bind to another receptor. The net result of consuming more estrogenic compounds is always going to be more free est, it doesn't just vanish because there's something else bound to a receptor.

I east 2 servings of special K cereal a nigh, which has 20g of soy protein in it...Am i gonna make it?

Estrogen is all-encompassing phrase, I said estradiol where appropriate. Don't know what you're trying to be autistic about.
Yes, that's what you were arguing, and yes estrogen does vanish because your body excretes it, you idiot. You can measure that in both your urine and your feces.

Man, don't answer to him anymore.
He's not here for discussion, he's here to distrupt the board. I had the same argument with him 18 hours ago, using your same talking points.
Consider 3 options.
1) he has a lower IQ than you. I suppose yours is higher than 120. He literally can't understand what you're saying, it's like if you were trying to demonstrate General Relativity mathematically to him.
B) He's so brainwashed into his cult that he can't doubt it
C) He's actively doing this on purpose, as a slogan to repeat ad infinutum until it stucks in the head of some retard.
This is a lost cause. The mods are not on our side. I suggest you go to 8ch. Veeky Forums

Really can't tell if cheeky or serious

Are you guys retarded?

pls i really can't tell

I'll make it easy for you. Post some peer-reviewed research that demonstrates what you claim.

Based /pol/ spreading disinformation, as always.

>fat makes you fat

>quoting something said by nobody

all of what you're saying has been refuted countless times. Can you see how we get a bit sick of it?

holy fuck that's dumb

How so?

Med school fag here, you're wrong on so many levels that I can't even comprehend why are you still posting.
>Whether a phytoestrogen or a regular estrogen binds to the receptor is irrelevant; it will have the same effect.
Exactly why Beta blockers actually have beta adrenergic effects right?
You should start reading some biology yourself before spouting shit on the interwebs

>To say that exogenous hormones from plant sources (ie phytoestrogens) cannot be stronger than estradiol is just a lie
If this was the case birth control pills would have been made from soy a long time ago

>soy is bad
>dairy is ok

the logic of brainlets on Veeky Forums

youtube.com/watch?v=ztlfeL5O2fc

>The net result of consuming more estrogenic compounds is always going to be more free est, it doesn't just vanish because there's something else bound to a receptor.
Again demonstrating your lack of knowledge about the endocrine system. Hormones don't stay in the bloodstream forever, they have a half-life, usually minutes or hours (with a few exceptions such as T4 or T3).

Haha, my friend grew up on soy shit and he has shoulders barely wider than his hips, he's about 1/3 finished through puberty and his dick is still about 3 inches. He was self conscious about stuff like this before and would cry about it alot but after seeing stuff like this he really took a good look in the mirror and realized there is no way going through the rest of puberty can save him and made a face similar to pic related while taking a shower for 30 minutes lamenting on his shitty parents doing this to him, realizing he has no control over this, that his voice is already too deep to throw in the towel and become a trap, that suicide is his real option. Does Veeky Forums know any ways to fix so he doesn't have to kill himself even though he has very few reasons to live. asking for my friend of course haha. (Hey if you've seen this elsewhere I'm copy pasting things around so I can tell my friend any ways to fix anything haha)

Roids

Estradiol has to make it's way to the live to be converted to estriol before it gets pissed out m8. Estradiol can also be esterified and stored in fat for long periods. The amount of receptors the body has makes the "you'll piss out all of the estrogen if the phytoestrogens are bound to the receptors :DDD", even if that were the case, a healthy person would not want to be replacing the estrogen that their body is using with weaker, fake phytoestrogens that serve very important functions in the body, even in males.

>Estradiol has to make it's way to the live to be converted to estriol before it gets pissed out m8
It will usually make its way to the liver pretty quickly the speed at which blood circulates in the body
>Estradiol can also be esterified and stored in fat for long periods.
AFAIK estrogens can be produced by fat, but I've not head of them being stored. Assuming this is true, it would still lead to a net decrease in available estrogen.
>The amount of receptors the body has makes the "you'll piss out all of the estrogen if the phytoestrogens are bound to the receptors :DDD"
You fucked up this sentence m8. Still, I never said that you will literally piss all the estrogen if you take phytoestrogens, I was just pointing out that the other user was correct about phyoestrogens leading to a net decrease in estrogen "utlization" assuming they bind to the same receptors AND have a weaker effect (as of today there is no proof that phytoestrogens are stronger than estrogens in the body)
>a healthy person would not want to be replacing the estrogen that their body is using with weaker, fake phytoestrogens
This is a fair point, but there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case. If phytoestrogens really had the impact on metabolism that all the "soyboy" haters claim to have, there would be solid evidence of it. I have not found any meaningful study to this date, but if you have, please enlighten me.

thats what it is though

Ignore all the grammar mistakes im a fuck up

>t. shitskin

Fuck this shit.
Just consume everything in moderation goddamn it. You don't get all or even half of your protons from soy because you understand that the studies are inconclusive on the topic, and you are not retarded.
Also fuck you people demonizing milk, you are even more retarded.
comfy pic not related

fuck off and do some research before posting you faggot. soy shrinks your balls until they swell up with cancer.

Wheres that comfy pic from?

>like do some research it's 2017 like come on :P

most Asians don't eat a huge amount of tofu
and having some tofu won't turn you into a shemale
besides soy is common in European cuisine as well
its more that vegetarians who use it as their main dietary protein get into trouble, and the fact that since the USA grows so much soy they put it into everything just like corn

>Leave Veeky Forums for a week
>Come back
>"Soy" meme is in full force
Really makes you think

>Don't eat saturated fats
>get your protein from a source that is 50 percent saturated fat

My comfy folder. No idea where it was taken.

drinking milk right now ama

use an all copper bullets for pistols and rifles, steel shot for shotguns. now what faggot?

>using lead bullets
>current year

>isn't naturally supposed to be
and putting various minerals and fossil planktonic polymers into chip form and using it to post on a peruvian alpaca meat curing site is perfectly natural. fucking tard.

Soy itself contains fat, tvp soy has not.

Anyone who isnt eating a whole beating heart ripped of a chest a day is at risk for massive gyno.
Just do test also it really makes you a stallion in bed because more testosterone and stuff.

was pointing out how retarded reasoning is, he's actually agreeing with you.