We Need to Settle This NOW

Behold: exactly what I was fucking talking about in . Powerlifters. They don't give a shit what they look like as long as they can lift heavy shit.

Listen to this post.

Starting strength is designed to maximize novice gains. It helps you learn the lifts and put on enough strength to do another routine seriously.

You progress 5lbs on every lift per without MINIMUM and when you can no longer sustain this you move on. You should never be on the program for more than a few weeks to a couple months TOPS which is nothing in terms of your lifting career.

Anyone who talks about doing it for extended periods of time and ending up a t rex is either an idiot or trolling. Idk how some morons stay on this program for years at a time.

>without

Workout*

that makes no sense you retard, why would you simply stop from making linear progression, why would you willingly stop adding 5lbs to the bar every workout for no other reason than being unable to? fuck off

its a garbage cookie cutter routine for retarded amerifats

I disagree with this. Starting Strength is not the "couch to 5k" of lifting for mass.

Hey dipshit. The OP never fucking specified what his end goals are. Whether aesthetics or strength. I’m just letting him know that if he does SS he might end up enjoying it for the sake of it like many guys do.

I’m just covering the base of letting him know that Rippetoe is a very legitimate source of info, and I even SPECIFIED where he differs ideologically from Veeky Forums so the OP can suss out where the divide is and how he wants to proceed.

>should a newb do SS
Yes. There’s not a better lifting manual for the compound lifts that i’m aware of. Every newb should know how to squat/bench/etc in the safest manner possible and SS is the best way to learn. Literally the beginning of every work out is reestablishing the safest movement pattern for lifts.

Because you're not going to be able to do so for more than a few months at a time. If you're constantly deloading and re trying sets its no longer linear.

You've very clearly never read the program.

It’s a beginner program
Good for strength base but only do for max 8 months

It's shit. GSLP is miles better.

strength base is a meaningless buzzword.

SS is not a meme. I did SS, completely how it was written in SS:BBT3, from May until last week and I’m glad that I didn’t fall for the SS is a meme meme. My squat was the fastest thing to progress at first, but bench press became my strongest lift by the end of the program. If you’re considering doing SS, then I would only change it by adding more chins because they are the only thing I feel like lags behind my other lifts.

Well it’s better to be able to bench more than the bar when starting out
> it teaches good form too

good, why not progress towards a goal of benching more by following a good routine

I prefer Stronglifts.

Now I know what all of these are
But a beginner will not

he could spend 5 minutes looking them up. any program without a row variant is a travesty

Starting strength is fine just dont overdo it with the food.

Starting strength works fine for someone who is doing tons of volume elsewhere, like football players, or people who have done lots of volume before and just need a fatigue break to peak there lifts.

That's why you see so many people say " I got nowhere on a bro-split then my lifts exploded on SS!". Ss just let them utilize the strength they built from the bro-split

That's also why you see people stall at a 75 lb ohp, they have no muscle to peak strength with

>box squat

stopped reading

SS has a barbell row though
The thing that bothers about you pic is close grip bench only, like just do regular bench and dips
Also box squats

no it doesnt it has pc because rippetoe ripped the program from bill starr's book for football athletes. pc has little to no benefit to casual lifters.
whats the problem with box squats again?

The thread about SS is the real meme. Whether your goals are strength or aesthetics or whatever the fuck, you're will need to learn how to perform the lifts included in SS properly. So if you are a new lifter with little to no experience in the gym, it is a great place to start. Not stick with forever, but just as a start. As your mileage varies, you can add in all the accessory and isolation bullshit you want. But neglecting these big lifts will hinder your goals, whatever they may be, so you might as well give it a go. Don't waste time stressing about finding the perfect program, just start lifting.

Starting Strength is a routine for powerlifters, wrestlers, rugby players, and American football players.

It's a strength-only routine that considers aesthetic gains and hypertrophy nothing but unnecessary deadweight that should be avoided lest it work against your athletic performance.

If you are in its target audience its fantastic.

If you just want to stay healthy and look good, its a waste of time.

I've been doing SL 5x5 for 4 months now, what routine to switch to?

/thread

>Starting Strength is a routine for powerlifters, wrestlers, rugby players, and American football players.
No. It’s a routine for people who want to get stronger. It is not specific to sports or even sport specific.

>It's a strength-only routine that considers aesthetic gains and hypertrophy nothing but unnecessary deadweight that should be avoided
Really, faggot? Hypertrophy is unavoidable even in a strength routine that doesn’t focus on it. To claim that hypertrophy should be avoided in SS is fucking stupid. It’s a program built around strength not “avoiding hypertrophy.” What you’re saying is fundamentally a lie because the program is just that, a program. It does not give a shit if you gain hypertrophy and to say that it actively avoids it is extremely disingenuous.

also bear in mind those dudes did it for 6 months and you're not supposedto do SS for more than 3 or so. If SS Bro transitioned to some intermediate routine he probably would be ahead on bench too. I admit he has a smaller back and delts but I don't remember if he did all the accessory work.
I still prefer Greyskull btw

If you are lifting to gain strength and look good you have no business doing this program.

For strength any intermediate program from the sticky. For hypertrophy some PPL variation

I'm not a powerlifter. My only goal is aesthetics.

BUT I didn't start making appreciable aesthetic gains until I got stronger, which allowed me to attain a higher work volume, and I didn't get stronger until I did SS.

Having a good working knowledge of the major barbell lifts and increasing your strength capacity are both great early steps to take on the path to aesthetics. You don't have to be a powerlifter to learn from them. I wouldn't even describe SS as a power lifting program. Ripp is utterly disdainful of things like sumo deadlift, excessive arch in the bench press, etc. Training for strength and training for powerlifting have overlap, but they're not the same thing.

Doing SS for a couple months never killed anybody's goal of looking good. You're crying wolf.

If you read the book its pretty decent for starters. its a learning experience not some dogmatic lifting bible. After a while you should start to notice weak points and move on to more specific programs if your looking like shit or not progressing. I see people doing some retarded things in the gym, some people really should read this book just to get a foundation to build upon

Fuck I wish I had the book. I’ve been doing the same since around May but based on second hand knowledge that I gradually filled in. I lost a lot of time to shit like:

- not even knowing to do the same amount of weight for all three sets
- not knowing how to warm up
- not knowing how important it is to keep training when you get a cold
- basic form mistakes
- bad shit like upright rows fucking up my forearms

I’m still not doing 100% SS (can’t really do cleans in my gym) but my progress is still continuing.

>- not knowing how important it is to keep training when you get a cold
??

>you're not supposedto do SS for more than 3 or so

Total bullshit. Like, literally fucking made up, but let’s continue.

>SS sucks because some people do it longer than they’re supposed to and come out looking amazing

This is what you’re saying. Jesus Christ you people are so goddamn stupid.

squats and deadlifts are useless for building strength? got it. what should I be doing instead

>you're not supposedto do SS for more than 3 or so.
not true at all

barbell flies and bosu ball push-ups

I’d take a couple days off because I couldn’t face a new PR instead of just doing less volume at the same weight to slow down the retraining and avoid having to reset.

*detraining

What is your goal?

im literally supporting ss you fucking retard lmao do ss for as long as you fucking want but people usually do it for a short period of time and then switch to something with more volume

if you need to ask this question you are the meme.

It's a decent beginner program nothing more, most the people who shit on it are idiots expecting to look like zyzz after 6 months of SS and get pissed when they dont.

>its a garbage cookie cutter routine for retarded amerifats
It's really this.

Rippetoe also just copypasted it from Bill Starr and changed up some thing to make it worse.
Starr's program was called "The Strongest shall Survive" and it was originally devised for football players in the off season iirc.

Well, neither Starr nor Rippetoe ever produced any champions, so there you go.

It's a toy program for unathletic easily manipulated fucking losers who want to play around in a gym for a while and pretend that they are oh so superior to those curlbros and people who play stupid things like actual sports or have active hobbies.
And something to play around with for a month or two during the summer months/off season for athletes.

There's nothing quite as deeply fucking stupid as making a sport out of doing something that actual athletes do to get better at actual athletics.

They got that in six months...
That's what they're claiming?

kek
i love chloe posting

Yes, and they also posted progress pics through these 6 months circa 2014, these guys are legit. And even if they didn't achieve it in exactly 6 months, point still stands: SS is a viable routine.

>curl bro detected

The SS forums say that you're as shitfilled as those lying faggots in that pic.
That is years of work as a fucking natural.

SS is a good program to get your strength off the ground
Starting off you wont make as many gains short term, but as a natty lifter in the long term it will help tremendously to have some strength to build some muscle

>but as a natty lifter in the long term it will help tremendously to have some strength to build some muscle
You build strength while building mass.
Hopping on a program that speeds you through your "newb gains" and tells you to get fat is not optimal for the average person who just wants to look good and be a bit stronger.

Not enough volume. Do stronglifts then transition to Texas method. Replace Olympic joint destroying lifts with speed deadlifts

Kek another faggot who's never read the book
Rip specifically says PCs can be swapped out for rows

>Starting Strength is ONLY for strength gains and leads to dismal - if any - hypertrophy gains PERIOD.
4archive.org/board/fit/thread/30146641/ss-vs-brosplit-again
Now shut the fuck up

post body

See

I'm 315 lb (5'9") morbidly obese man with the following stats
Squat 225
Deadlift 315
Bench 135
OHP 95
All lifts are 5x3, I don't know my 1RM

What program should I follow? I've been following Rippitoes Practical Programming for Strength Training. Getting good results, but I'm concerned primarily with losing fat.

SS is solid shit...... if you're trying to be a powerlifter.

There's a difference between powerlifting and bodybuilding. Powerlifters do not give a shit what they look like. They only want to move higher weights for the purpose of sport.

Bodybuilders don't give a shit how much weight they can actually move. They want to look sexy.

If you want to be a bodybuilder, SS is pants on head retarded because you want to gradually bulk with as little excess fat as possible, whereas SS makes you eat so fucking much that you're gaining as much fat as muscle, because they want you to maximize strength.

In conclusion, you will no look nearly as good as a guy who includes curls and tricep extensions to their lifts if you're only doing deadlifts and bent over rows, like SS would have you do. Mark Rippetoe explicitly says he doesn't want you to target biceps because it's "pointless" and "not important."

He is a powerlifting trainer, not someone who cares about looking good.

His major retardation is not bothering to explain this difference to the hordes of noob young guys who think they're gonna get a 6 pack from squats and deadlift.

It is effective if you do it correctly, namely, doing all 3 or so phases of the program instead of just one particular phase.

By phase 3 you should be doing Squats, bench, OHP, chin-ups, back extensions, deadlifts, and power cleans at least once every week, and the book says that while it may interfere with your recovery, you can program in what accessories you feel like having, so you could add your biceps curls and crunches if you really feel like it.

People regard it as a meme because it's popular and they haven't fully read the book and just bought into "muh t-rex mode" memes spouted by other idiots who haven't read the damn book.

In the end, however, it's a beginner program, nearly any beginner program will help you get gains by virtue of you being a beginner.

It's a program for 15 year old twinks who want to put on mass for high school football.

Very limited use outside that purpose.

Rip is a massive poser with a chip on his shoulder who spouts shit like "all men weigh over 200lbs". He's really invested in his personal image of fitness (high school football athlete) as the one true faith.

You see, THIS is what Veeky Forums should be about.

Somebody who actually has experience related to the OP question giving an honest answer, and to be honest the content of the post didn't matter, he could have said SS is shit and he'd still be right, because he's done it.

The rest of you cunts just regurgitate the same cancerous nonsense.

I've witnessed at least 3 skeletons become big and good looking with SS. It's just shit for fatties... I was skinny fat and started with GSLP, not regretting it for a moment.

Man, the massive amount of retards in the thread is truly enlightening.

Let me explain how SS works in a nutshell.

SS is fundamentally a STRENGTH training program. It does not concern itself with much of anything besides STRENGTH.

What Mark Rippetoe realized a long time ago is that for new and intermediate lifters (90% of Veeky Forums) the easiest way to increase strength is by manipulating ONE variable. That variable is WEIGHT lifted. He fixes the volume, he fixes the schedule, the exercises, the form, the intensity, and anything else you can think of. And then he has you add WEIGHT on each lift, every time you lift, so this is the only variable that changes from lift to lift. Your body only has to adapt to ONE variable from work out to work out. He then applies this logic to 4 or 5 main heavy compound lifts (depending on what you CHOOSE to do).

The other aspect of SS is SUGGESTIONS to keep that variable of WEIGHT increasing from work out to work out. The goal is not to stall. So sound advice is: get good sleep, eat healthy, eat ENOUGH CALORIES, etc. The program is designed to keep progressing, and one way not to stall is to make damn sure you are in caloric surplus. If you approach SS from the view that you will gain as much strength as possible without eating exessively, then you will never “get fat on SS.” Once progress stalls when you’ve done the program for awhile, and you refuse to eat a lot for negligible strength gains, then you can move on to a different more high volume work out if you are interested in aesthetics. If aesthetics don’t matter, go ahead and load up on calories and become a strong man with a little fat on him.

So once you move on from SS you can manipulate different variables. You can do higher volume, variations of exercises, and whatever else. The point being that you will be far better off doing higher volume bro splits pushing more weight, than a high volume bro split pushing less weight.

(1/2)

The thing to remember if you are lifting for aesthetics is that bodybuilders are still strong guys. You can get stronger faster on a strength program than a bodybuilding program. So if being strong is an important part of being a bodybuilder, then it makes sense to expedite strength gains by doing a strength program.

Like I mentioned, if your ultimate goal is high volume and mass building, your better off pushing more weight doing high volume than less weight with the same volume.

You can always diet at any point of this training to get the body fat percentage you want once you feel you have sufficient mass to look good.

I think another thing people don’t realize is that SS is kind of high volume by virtue of the warm up structure.

Here’s the SS app which does all the calculations for warm up reps for you.

What app is this?

The Starting Strength app. It’s pretty good, imo. Keeps track of lifts and draws a graph of your gains over the course of weeks/months

Oh, and it’s unfortunately $8.99. But if you buy the app you get the lifting aspect of the app as well as a lot of Starting Strenfth info that is in the book for lifting correctly. Worth every penny so far

All these people misusing the word "hypertrophy"

this is what peak performance looks like

IDK but I'm going to do reg parks starting weight lifting thing so I don't turn into t-rex

>Presses 165 for reps
>Still on SS
Holy fuck what are you doing

great post

There is literally nothing wrong with taking time out of the gym when you have a cold. You're contagious. Don't spread that shit around.

Besides, the book does not address that at all. In two places, it mentions missing gym time due to illness. Be responsible, user.

If you're out of the gym for a week or less, you just repeat your last workout.

>Well, neither Starr nor Rippetoe ever produced any champions, so there you go.
This is such a dumb fucking argument. Football coaches won't adopt SS. They're not interested. So how are you shitting on the program for failing to do something that nobody is willing to try and accomplish? If a bunch of college football teams adopted SS and started sucking, you'd have an argument, but literally no team uses this method, so you can't point to a failure to produce champions as if it meant anything.

>survivorship bias

incoming long post

I'm doing GSLP right now after doing SS for a bit, but I'm wondering if I should just go back to SS.

Current stats (last best completed) (at 6ft):
163lb.

OHP: 100x3x5
Bench: 145 for 5/5/4
Squat: 180 for 5/5/10 (and then 190 for 5/5/7)
Deadlift: 225x10

Right now my routine is as follows:

Monday:

Bench/OHP (alternate)
Squat
Row/Weighted Neutral Grip Chins (alternate, row on bench days, chin on OHP days)
Abs
Hammer Curls 3x10
Calves

Wednesday:

OHP/Bench (alternate)
Deadlift
Weighted chins / row (alternate)
abs
lat raises 3x10
calves

Friday:

Bench/OHP
Squat
Row/Weighted Chin
abs
hammer curls 3x10
calves

Last sets on the 3x5s are AMRAP, doubling weight increase if it hits 10 reps

I add 2.5lbs./session for upper body and 5lbs./session for lower body

Thinking about adding incline bench to friday to work upper chest more.

In under a month, these are the gains I've seen on GSLP:

159 - 163 lbs.

Bench 135 5/5/6 -> 145 5/5/4
Squat 180 3x5 -> 190 5/5/7
OHP 90 3x5 -> 100 3x5
Deadlift 205 1x5 -> 225 1x10

Would I be better served by just doing SS for another couple months?

should note that this is ~3 weeks of progress

bump

OP didn't mention aesthetics or hypertrophy once. Go back to Facebook dyel

It's good guidance on form and the mechanical underpinnings thereof.

Depending on your situation it could be too advanced, i.e. if you're really weak or uncoordinated and need to to accessory work to get to a place where you can do SS, and/or it doesn't have nearly enough volume.

Larger volumes with manageable weights the allow you to go slow, practice a lot and perfect your form are a good thing.

SS is good for highschool football players who are already in a heavy anabolic mode, are relatively coordinated and conditioned and just need to put on some muscle.

>this guarded Obama

>, wrestlers, rugby players
they are pretty asetheitc imo

Incline DB bench its king of the lifts for a reason brah

How?

You use SS for half a year to get your compound lift numbers up

You are now stronger than you were 6 months before

Now any routine you do won't be held back by newb strength

hence strength base

This. SS will make you stronger. Much stronger. If you follow the routine correctly, getting stronger a guarantee.

Looking good is not guaranteed. IF your genetics are already good, it can help make you look better, but if you already look like shit it will just make you look chubby w/ muscle.

You tell me.

You did SS for two years? Did you even read the book?