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Were there any Polish politicians except for Dmowski that called for aliance with Czechoslovakia?
Ayden Parker
Brandon Green
Kind of irronic how ideas of aliance and union between two states, were created AFTER everything went to shit and both were occupied...
Czechoslovakia still had a chance of succesfully potect itself from nazi krauts even without western allies by the mountain fortification, but poles once again cucked the only slavic allie for their own greed.
>tfw no Polish–Czechoslovak confederation successfully protecting itself from nazis.
Levi Taylor
Pilsudski I think, but the alliance was impossible
>Poles wanted political alliance, because with their numbers they would dominate; but didn't wanted free trade because their economy could not compete
>Czechs wanted free-trade zone because their economy would dominate, but didn't wanted political alliance because they'll end up as Polish vassals
Juan Morgan
I dont know much about Pilsudski but he seems like a complete autist to me, he was obessed with creation of Miedzymorze that was complete nonsense taking in count that it wasnt supposed to be something like EU or NATO but actual state with one army, government etc.
Several sources claim that he was responsible for Polish annexion of Zaolzie shortly after the WW1. Experienced politician would know how important was that railway there.
Alexander Clark
>implying that there was a chance to survive without making alliance with Soviets or Germans
Alliance with Poland would get Czechs into conflict with Ruskies and maybe taking their Zakarpathia.
There was no chance to survive German blitzkrieg, we had too long border without good terrain for attacker
Only way for II RP was allying with the German s and dont try to change it slavic imperialists
Owen Rodriguez
Polish annexion of Zaolzie shortly after WW1?
Poland annexed Zaolzie when Pilsudski was dead in 1938
Shortly after WW1 Czechs took it from us when we were fighting Bolsheviks
James Adams
>for their own greed.
OY VEY!
en.wikipedia.org
Brody Baker
>wasnt supposed to be something like EU or NATO but actual state with one army, government etc.
BS.
>Polish annexion of Zaolzie shortly after the WW1.
LITERALLY WHAT?
Ayden Gray
>Experienced politician would know how important was that railway there.
Oh yes, our politicians should only care about Czech interests and ignore the Polish majority population in Zaolzie and leave them all alone.
Jackson Baker
>Alliance with Poland would get Czechs into conflict with Ruskies and maybe taking their Zakarpathia.
what?
>There was no chance to survive German blitzkrieg, we had too long border without good terrain for attacker
Again, what?
Holy shit this meme again.
Pilsudski was alive in 1918.
>Shortly after WW1 Czechs took it from us when we were fighting Bolsheviks
7 Days war ended 3 months before actual hostilities started between Bolsheviks and Poles, not to mention Poles were those that attacked first.
>when we were fighting Bolsheviks
Poles took it when Czechoslovakai was fighting Bolsheviks in Slovakia and Hungary and its only effective units were on Siberia fighting Russian Bolsheviks.
Cooper Cruz
>7 Days war ended 3 months before actual hostilities started between Bolsheviks and Poles, not to mention Poles were those that attacked first.
>Poles took it when Czechoslovakai was fighting Bolsheviks in Slovakia and Hungary and its only effective units were on Siberia fighting Russian Bolsheviks.
Ian Scott
>Oh yes, our politicians should only care about Czech interests and ignore the Polish majority population in Zaolzie and leave them all alone.
Why didnt they also gave third of Ukraine and half of Belarussia to USSR? And part of Wielkopolska to Germany? Do you understand that railway was the only connection between Eastern Slovakia and rest of Czechoslovakia? It would be like Canada giving Montreal and acces to Lake Ontario to French just because people here speak French.
Camden Ward
debunk any of those claims
Juan Rogers
There was no chance that Soviets would stay when Germans would attack Czechs and Poles.
They would attack too
I have no idea what is too hard for you to understand?
January 23–30, 1919
'The Polish side was given an ultimatum, that they evacuate the area to the Biała River in less than two hours. After the expiry of this period the Czechoslovak army started its operations'
Logan Robinson
>Pilsudski but he seems like a complete autist to me,
Pilsudski was a Polish speaking kresowiak, those are eastern ethnicities that were polonized and obsessed with Russia
Lucas Jenkins
>There was no chance that Soviets would stay when Germans would attack Czechs and Poles, they would attack too
citation needed
>January 23–30, 1919
Exactly, thats about half a month before 14 February 1919 which is the date Polish-Bolshevik war started. Trotsky would of course attack Poland soon or later but claiming that "You took it from us while we were protecting you from Bolsheviks" is childish.
Leo Allen
>Why didnt they also gave third of Ukraine
Galicia and Volhynia is not even Ukraine (proper).
Alexander Murphy
>And part of Wielkopolska to Germany?
That would be literally nothing.
Christian Nguyen
>Betray Lithuania and take Vilnius because "muh leaders birthplace and we wuz commonwealth"
>Betray Belarus and split it among Soviets just to gain more national clay, even tho soviets wanted to give whole independent belarus away.
>Betray Czechs by abandoning them in their darkest hour against krauts, but even worse participate in its partition like complete bastards.
...
>complain that german smartly collaborated with soviets, double tagged and split yournation
>complain that westerners betrayed and abandoned Poland in 1939
>complain that allies betrayed Poland by giving it up to Soviets, who gave them millions of acres of more historic land and even depopulated the krauts out of it
Out of all slavs, poles are the most distrusting greedy one, that's why they oppose any form of pan-slavism even today. Even krauts are more noble then poles sometimes.
No sympathy, maybe only to innocent polish civilians who suffered.
Owen Wilson
>needing citation for logic
thats obvious they would attack like they did in 39
>implying that our forces werent fighting with all of this bullshit on the east
Caleb Reed
checked
Josiah Wilson
>Do you understand that railway was the only connection between Eastern Slovakia and rest of Czechoslovakia?
Again, a railway going trough a mostly Polish territory. If your politicians had the political will they would have made a compromise, maybe even a deal in which Poland would keep its ethnic territories in return for allowing Czechoslovakian trains to pass trough its railsystem or even finance the building of a new Czechoslovakian connection. But no, you just invaded.
James Allen
Are you blind? Its like 3x more than size of Zaolzie
>what is Ribbentrop-Molotov
shut the fuck up Jew
Brody Collins
P A N S L A V I S M
>'muh birthplace
like 70% Polish population of Wilno
>spliting Belarus
I think that the population would vote to join Russia so we just saved some milions Belarussians from comunism for 20 years
>Germany>Czechs and P A N S L A V I S M
im only complaining about not allying Germans and destroying panslavic idiots
Brayden Cruz
>Again, a railway going trough a mostly Polish territory.
Only because you live somehwere doesnt mean it should belong to state according to your nationality. Polish government refused any compromise and started with conscription of Czechs into the Polish army which was forbidden by temporary treaty made during early talks.
Jonathan Rodriguez
Okay.
>not to mention Poles were those that attacked first.
Done
Jackson Robinson
>Are you blind? Its like 3x more than size of Zaolzie
And what could be said about East Prussia?
Cameron Reed
>miejsca mordow
stop this meme already, Šnajdárek had more sympathies toward Poles than Latinik
Blake Perez
Ribbentrop Molotov is just proof for that Soviets would attack with Germans if we would fight with Czechs
Dylan Long
Iam just trying to tell you that drawing borders according to the ethnicities living somehwere is stupid.
Ryan Campbell
We should have sided with White Russia really.They were ready to accept Poland as seperate state connected by military alliance and economic union.
Joseph Allen
Jaxson Reed
>>Betray Lithuania and take Vilnius because
Funny when you speak of betrayal and Liths. They betrayed Pilsudski's idea of restoring the Commonwealth. But no, Wilno was taken because of pic rel.
>>Betray Belarus and split it among Soviets just to gain more national clay, even tho soviets wanted to give whole independent belarus away.
Only mistake Poland did is not to accept Lenin's proposals of restoring Poland's pre-1772 borders.
>>Betray Czechs by abandoning them in their darkest hour against krauts,
Just like Czechs did (by blocking Hungarian ammunition shipments) when Poland was fighting off alone the Bolshevik invasion of Europe?
Kevin Walker
They were what?
Whites hated us so much if any of them mentioned about Independent Poland they claimed that only on Kingdom of Poland Borders+Austrians and German land
But they were quite clear they will not give anything else from the Russia
Thats why Pilsudski stopped offensive and let the Reds finnish the Whites
And i understand him
Jose Rivera
So you think that Soviets would do nothing while Germans were taking land in Poland and Czechoslovakia?
Bentley Cox
>citation needed
You do know Stalin wanted to send million of troops to help Czechoslovakia if Britain and France decided to support Czechs and not apease Hitler, Soviets even publicly anouced its willingness to come to Czechoslovakia's assistance. Benes, however, refused to go to war without the support of the Western powers.
Strategy wise Stalin knew how that was the best position to oppose Hitler before they became more powerful was to stop them at Czechoslovakia.
Charles Flores
Exactly, because Stalin wasnt a type of person that would go in full scale war.
>Just like Czechs did (by blocking Hungarian ammunition shipments) when Poland was fighting off alone the Bolshevik invasion of Europe?
Stop the meme with Bolshevik invasion of Europe, there were still communist guerrillas in Hungary
Zachary Ross
So Stalin wanting to stop Hitler is proof that he wanted to team up with him and attack Poland and Czechoslovakia so UK and France can declare war on him?
Lucas Hill
You had your reasons to want Zaolzie, we had our reasons (in my opinion, more rightful) to keep Zaolzie. Not only was Zaolzie inhabited by a Polish majority, but historically Cieszyn Silesia was ruled by Polish Piasts.
Anthony Perry
>Stop the meme with Bolshevik invasion of Europe, there were still communist guerrillas in Hungary
????????????????????????????????????????????
Henry Reyes
>but historically Cieszyn Silesia was ruled by Polish Piasts.
that were vassals of the Bohemia for about 400 years.
Matthew King
Sure, but the population and rules were mostly Polish.
Jordan Edwards
No, after the West and Poland cucked Czech's, he understood that he would need to be just for himself and seek better positions with Hitler.
Stalin was a realist, and seeing that Germany was being surrounded, was better plan then abandoning your only neutral neighbor to the eternal enemy that will fuck you over one year later(oh wait...)
Christian Rogers
What's that pic supposed to show?
Alexander Thompson
>Preperaing to go for war for many years by builing heavy industry, investing in new technlogies etc.
>You are 100% sure you are going to be at war with Germans because both of you are willing to rule Cenrtal Europe
And dont give a fuck that there would be peace beetwen Germans and Soviets thats not possible. Even Hitler with his talk with Mannerheim said that war with Soviets were inevitable
>Not willing to make this war easier by taking some land and be closer to Berlin
Stalin wanted to take as much as he could to have more time to prepare to war
If they would join then im 100% sure Stalin would take much more than he did.
Maybe he even could make Slovakia his own puppet and take more Poland
Hunter Perry
UK and France declare war on Soviets like then they attacked Baltics, Finland and Romania yea?
Christopher Phillips
You cannot read? The beginning of the Bolshevik/Soviet invasion of Europe. Lenin wanted to reach Portugal and the Atlantic for the purpose of spreading communism.
Aaron Diaz
Do you actualy think that Hitler could beat Czechoslovakia and Poland combined?
completely irrelevant
Leo Rodriguez
You forget that Hungary after the war had entire revolution/civil war of their won going and it was in new Czechoslovak border, right?
That's why Czechs were so repulsed by idea of opening newly formed borders to hungarians.
en.wikipedia.org
Easton Green
>completely irrelevant
Jace Robinson
I think that would be possible but if not Soviets would help him by attacking Poland and Czechs
It would be much better for Stalin because he would have took more land than he did
Andrew Sanders
>You forget that Hungary after the war had entire revolution/civil war of their won going and it was in new Czechoslovak border, right?
That's why they supported Poland.
>their own abandoning and betrayal of Czechs.
If anything Czechs "betrayed" Poles first in 1919.
Angel Parker
>Do you actualy think that Hitler could beat Czechoslovakia and Poland combined?
Maybe not, but if the Soviets didn't invade as well.
Jackson Turner
I regreat making this thread.
This is supposed to be thread about Czechoslovakia-friendly politicians in Poland you niggers.
Jace Myers
Well, we need to iron out first our differences. I agree that a Polish-Czechoslovakian alliance would be preferable to what happened tho.
Isaiah Gutierrez
>Do you actualy think that Hitler could beat Czechoslovakia and Poland combined?
No, Hitler would have had much much more challange to deafeat Poles and fortified Czechs combined, that's why i started to trigger eternally butthurt poles about deciding to abandon and betray the Czechs their only hope, so that they would fuck themselves over a year later and complaint to allies about betrayal.(as you see, it workers)
>If anything Czechs "betrayed" Poles first in 1919.
They didn't. It's a myth poles spam to justify in participating in Czechoslovakia partition and annexing Zaolzie.
Hunter Thompson
>eternally butthurt Poles
>oooo Poles betrayed Czechs ooooo momy
Brandon Ortiz
>They didn't. It's a myth poles spam to justify in participating in Czechoslovakia partition and annexing Zaolzie.
Yeah yeah, blablabla.
Gabriel Gray
>mommy, mommy look, i posted it again! haha epic lulz xdddd
Jonathan Peterson
You're pathetic.
Dominic Sanders
Is it that hard to understand that Poland annexed it in 1918 when Czechoslovak army did not existed?
Isaiah Rodriguez
And you're retarded.
Isaac Young
Yes, Poland proclaimed it as its own in 1918 when Poland was reestablished, no shit, it had a Polish majority.
Says the retard.
Brayden Price
>January 1919
Remind me, when did Polish-Soviet war started?
Cameron Reed
>Poland proclaimed it as its own
fucking Zimbabwe could do that
Liam Adams
Our troops were fighting on the East since November 1918
But before the real Soviet-Polish war we were fighting Soviets, Germans, Ukrainians and Russians
Soviet-Polish needed just some time to begin
Kayden Parker
First incidences and skirmishes started in February 1919, but Poland was at war with Ukraine before that.
You're truly retarded.
Kevin Rodriguez
>West is about to abandon Czechoslovakia
>Poland interweens and supports Czechoslovakia
>Now Czech don't lose hope and don't give up sudetenland no matter what
>Nazi krauts and Hitler about to declare war, but Oster conspiracy kicks in against the war and overthrows Nazis
>The entire war and ww2 is avoided and world is saved
Brainlets think jews caused the WW2
Smart people know, it was the krauts
Enlightenned people realise that poles once again fucked the world for greed of land.
Logan Cook
>poles once again fucked the world for greed of land.
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Jacob Bell
>i posted i again xdddddddddddddd
You're pathetic
Jaxon Reyes
Says the butthurt pathetic cunt.
Luke Powell
Oh wait, so Czechoslovakia didn't "backstabed Poland while Poles were fighting Bolsheviks". Turns out those "Bolsheviks" were ragtag Ukrainian forces fighting for independance.
Brayden Martin
>so Czechoslovakia didn't "backstabed Poland while Poles were fighting Bolsheviks".
Czechs backstabbed Poles while they were in a war with Ukraine over Galicia. Later Poles and Ukrainians united against the Bolsheviks.
Robert Harris
>You had your reasons to want Zaolzie, we had our reasons
Doesn't mean you should abandon and partisapte in partition of THE ONLY land neigbhor that had a chance of defying germans together instead of facing alone, losing everyhing and complaine 70 years later about western betrayal and "mean germans massacred 5-6 millions of us n'shiet".
At least you got that little Piast clay which was technically in polish territory 400 years ago, for about few month before being roughly fucked by germans ;)
I understand what Czech poster are saying here, Poles always complain about being "betrayed" but in reality, poles themselves are petty backstabbers... fucking your own chances for survival just to regain a small city that you didn't obtain 20 years ago before being invaded yourself. It's fucking ironic.
Daniel Campbell
>Whites hated us so much
Denikin and others were ready to accept independant Poland.
Evan Harris
>they claimed that only on Kingdom of Poland Borders+Austrians and German land
This is very reasonable and quite advantageous to Poland, Kresy were a drain on Polish state and society, with single exception of Lviv.
Giving them back to Russia would be a fair price to pay for independence and alliance to protect both countries from German aggression.
Luke Turner
>not irrelevant
>German Saxon Dynasty and othe german nobles once rulled Polish-Lithuania commonwealth
>That means Poland is rightfully German hitlerdidnothingwrong14/88gasthepoles
You see how retarted your logic is?
Christopher Reyes
How about the Czechs backstabbing us in 1919 and betraying us when Hungarians tried to send us ammunitions but Czechs blocked it while the Bolsheviks were invading?
Robert Rivera
>>German Saxon Dynasty and othe german nobles once rulled Polish-Lithuania commonwealth
You mean two Wettins were elected as kings of the PLC, but in reality nobles aka magnates ruled Poland as they voted for kings and had more money.
Anthony Johnson
Then why did Poland broke the treaty over administration of Zaolzie during a war with such dangerous opponent? It's like they backstabbed themselves only to cry about it.
James Martin
>Why wouldn't they let enemy transport military materiel over your territory?
Hmm...
Josiah Nelson
You didn't get it yet?
>Czechs need it for crucial railway line connecting Czech Silesia with Slovakia which was only one of two railroads that linked the Czech provinces to Slovakia at that time. It was extremely important since the new state was in complete shit at the time, Poland too tbqh. Was it a dick move? Surely, but an actual survival move instead of "Muh ethnic border".
>Hungary was in even more shit and complete communist revolution, opening borders and risking communist support in your country was also very fucking risky for your own national sovereignty.
So yeah, i and many other sane people consider Czech to have been more justified in 1919 amids the whole post-ww1 chaos then Poles fucking over their only potention land ally in 1938 over some shitty ethno city and aiding you "eternal krautniger nemesis" just to be invaded by them few month later and lose everything.
Poles did have a legitimate reason, but it was very pity and pathetic and it shows in 1939 1st september.
Jaxson Garcia
>tfw no United States of Poland
Logan Phillips
Just a reminder for all the Wehrboos ITT.
Nazi Germany was weak as fuck before they swallowed Czech industry and Czech tanks. There is simply no way Nazi Germany would win against both Czechs and Poland.
Parker Collins
>So yeah, i and many other sane people consider Czech to have been more justified in 1919
Of course, I don't care.
>Poles did have a legitimate reason, but it was very pity and pathetic
Oh right, not more pathetic than the Czech one.
Luke Diaz
>Dmowski was vocal anti-semite and extreme anti-german, had italian fascist sympathy and advocated to be allies with slavic brothers of Czechoslovakia to counter kraut autism
>Literally counterpart of Radola "no difference between kraut and the jew" Gajda
>TFW NO GAJDA RULED CZECHOSLOVAKIA ALLIED WITH DMOWSKI RULED POLAND
What could've been.... fuck the 1938-1939 polish government.
Leo Peterson
>thread when Czechs and Poles admit to doing wrong to each other and thinking how good the alliance would be for both of them
>g*Rmans star divide n conquer with muh zaolzie n shit
Typical. Fucking Krauts.
Asher Turner
>>Literally counterpart of Radola "no difference between kraut and the jew" Gajda
That's based. What was Gajda's stance on Poles?
youtube.com
Luke White
>i need the city because there are manny poles living in it
over
>i need the city because for literally survival because there are only two railways connecting my border at this time when hungarian-slovak communists are raging all over the fucking southern country
oh yeah, it's so much more pathetic then killing some hohols in galicia at the time... Nice one, Gzegor... such a fucking shame that we have to be fucking massacred by krauts for your autistic fucking ethno border...
Bentley Clark
>for literally survival because there are only two railways connecting my border
Literally overblown to justify the 1919 annexation.
Oliver Long
Not known, but its known that Gajda was pan-slavist(not a slavic ethnostate type but friendly brother relations) and extreme anti-communist, so i guess he liked poles and other slavs.
Anthony Johnson
This very much.
Slavs are retarted.
Eli Lewis
>Literally overblown to justify the 1919 annexation.
Nah, the justification for invasion was Poles breaking the treaty about administration of those areas.
Also stop being butthurt, France saved Poland week after the fighting started.
Christian Smith
Top kek... This is actually true, but should be the other way around, Germans are like Jews:
>ubermensch = God's chosen people
>untermensch = goyim, slaves of Jews
>liebensraum = God given land - Israel
Jackson Garcia
Jews got the whole shit from Germans though, so Gajda wasn't wrong.
Yddish is a Germanic language after all. And it was German Jew that started Zionism, Theodor Herzl.
Dylan Long
>Jews got the whole shit from Germans though, so Gajda wasn't wrong.
Nah, Germans got it from the Jews, read the Talmud.
>German Jew that started Zionism, Theodor Herzl.
Zionism started way before Herzl, and was always present in the Jewish mind as it was prophesied in Jewish religious tradition that they would return to Israel after being scattered all over the world.
Carter Wood
Dmowski>>>Pilsudski
Nathan Torres
Jason Allen
ITT: Poles and their diaspora butthurting everywhere.
Logan Rodriguez
U mad? This thead is a Polano-Czech condominium.