How did pic related become so unfashionable on the internet that most posters of anything gym-related deny it was ever...

>running out of breath after 6 reps

isnt this because of the high intensity? switching to a low weight to do higher reps seems like it wouldn't be that hard of a transition.

Wait. What's the issue with the SS power clean?

SS is a beginner program, and beginners can't clean. Also many commercial gyms don't allow dropping of weight. So blame the program instead of themselves

Dyel brainlet psuedo oly lifters think they know what they are talking about because klokov does it differently.

im not sure if it was in SS or PP but didn't the book clearly state to start power cleans once reaching intermediate stages or when there is enough confidence in one's own skill to learn the lift properly? Im pretty sure it doesnt say you have to do switch them with deadlifts on a weekly basis.

Fpbp, also it's nothing revolutionary if you repeat a workout you'll get better at it and the routines could be higher intensity
Splits, not bro splits are the best way to get aesthetic symmetric strength. Lemme guess you look like shit.

Does Clarence look like shit, too? "Aesthetics" are purely a social construct, arbitrary and fleeting, while strength is objective and exists outside of social interpretation as something palpable. You advocate anti-athleticism, and and such have no valid opinion to share.

I dunno, but the book is an awesome reference for technical written descriptions and pictures of how to do the lifts. The diet advice is shit though.

The beauty of Starting Strength is also its downfall. It's so simple, and for the rank novice simple is the way to go. But people think the program and its methods will carry them all the way to their endgame, which is misguided to say the least.
SS gives the beginner some sound principles and teaches him the basic lifts very quickly. This is invaluable. But once the program has run its course, it's time to move on, and guess what, most people won't be insanely jacked yet at this point, and that's OKAY.

Rippetoe teachers a high hips version that isn't very specific to actual weightlifting where you must be able to catch the bar in a deep squat, and lift it again from that position.
But Rip's version is fine if you just want to power clean, and it's fine for athletic transfer. Not saying it's necessarily superior, but it FINE.
It's also relatively easy to learn, also for the beginner, and the starting position Rip advocates ensures good transfer from all the low bar squatting.

>especially with Stronglifts.
>It teaches someone that they're athletic if they do 5 reps and then sit on their ass for 5 minutes.

I dunno... I use the app and it pings me after 90 seconds if the set was easy, again at 3 if it was difficult. I've been pinged at 5 too, but I could have done the set at 3 but I just missed the alert.

>They're also taught that if they fail a set they should wait 10 more minutes or just skip it and end the workout altogether.

I've never been told to wait 10 minutes or stop the workout entirely. I had to finish the sets even if I could only get 1 rep per set.

>Even people on Veeky Forums are guilty of this by saying "Just lift to get stronger and then once you reach 1/2/3/4 just do hypertrophy routines".

I've definitely seen that though.

>Have fun trying to do high-rep isolations when you run out of breathe after 6 reps.

This is just a conditioning deficiency isn't it? If I don't actually rest longer than 3 minutes most of the time shouldn't I have adequate fatigue recovery to handle a minor jump in intra-set volume if intensity demand is lowered?

or what this user said.

D R U G S

You're welcome to attempt to not get stronger while bodybuilding, user. Please record your results weekly and present them to us.

>SS
>3x5
>3/4 lifts per session
>5 minute breaks
>"""""athletic"""""
LOL

>The majority of lifters are the opposite of athletic, and as such advocate against athleticism.

user, the people who whored SS EVERYWHERE on the net and treated it as lifting gospel are always the most unathletic fucking losers you'll ever meet.
They're entire understanding of physical fitness comes from that book or listening to rip and they always always look like shit, have piss poor numbers or are very injured or are on a bullet train to snapcity by way of dumbassville.

>Inbefore that picture of the crossfitgirl doing the SS variation of powercleans
>You know the one

I'm not on anabolics, but I could still kick your ass

Don't think so squatboi

>thinks bodybuilding builds strength as fast a pure strength training program

t. Underage dyel

Squats are the epitome of athleticism. Where is your prove of your athleticism? Might as well not even lift.

>splits
>For beginners
Kek. Enjoy waiting 6 months for a 3pl8 squat

Natural bodybuilding? Yes.
You build strength and the far more important strength endurance as well.

Stop conflating the do a thousand sets of one exercise that the geared up idiots who's never actually done a single year of ungeared lifting does with natural bodybuilding.
It's bullshit.
Hell, people like you are the ones who'll post obviously geared up lifters who do bodybuilding type and true full body training complete with isolations and claim that they got it from basic powerlifting type training.

A million faggot 16 year olds invaded this board after zyzz died and the place was never the same.

Squats are good but over rated

Being an athlete is the epitome of being athletic.
Doing the thing that actual athletes occasionally do to prepare for actual athletic activity does not make you an athlete.
Thinking as such makes you a deluded fucking loser.

This. Just look at age threads - it's a bunch of children too young to even know who zyzz is

They are in fact underrated by the majority of DYEL lifters.
>athletes occasionally do
Are you retarded? Just shut up. From track cycling to weightlifting, all athletes squat, and they squat heavy.

Just as important and any other compound movement. That's the problem with you rippletit disciples you put the squat on a pedestal and neglect all other aspects and usually look like shit with underdeveloped upper bodies and guts

at what weight would one recommend i shift away from the stripped 5x5? still a 2 month beginner though

Do you understand what occasionally means?
They OCCASIONALLY squat to improve their strength.

>and neglect all other aspects
SS has more upper volume than lower. Just fuck off. And no athlete isn't doing SS. The program and OP thread is in question to beginners, and why they're shying away from athleticism and actual results.

The weight is irrelevant. Stay on it for as long as the weight is increasing steadily. Once you begin to struggle adding weight as intended, then it's time to make a switch.

This, you can use it until you die if you can keep increasing the weight.

I was unfortunate, i stalled like a motherfucker after 8 months of SS, feelsbad

>SS has more upper volume than lower.
1.You only have so much recovery to go around
2.Volume for upperbody =/= well distributed volume or enough volume. Even saying something like that just exposes how deeply fucking retarded you are.

Beginner routine
>No push-ups
>No pull ups
Smart

Push-ups don't make you objectively stronger and are in every way inferior to a bench press

Incorrect. Push-ups are more athletic aswell.

Not that user, but volume isn't important for a novice. Intensity is ramped up because the weight is relatively low and a novice can afford to recover and increase weight each session. Your argument might make sense for an intermediate lifter, but not here.

Once the novice builds a good baseline strength, then he can move onto volume-intensive intermediate programs

Not that guy, but you're very fucking wrong.

First of all, "stronger" is per definition a relative term. Depending on the starting point, it may not require that much resistance to make the individual stronger.

Secondly, there are many kinds of strength. While maximum strength may be the mother quality of strengths, it's not the only kind of strong.

Thirdly, push-ups are a closed chain exercise with free movement of the scapulae and complete core integration. This makes it therapeutic for the shoulder joints whereas the bench press is harmful in large doses.

Fourth, push-ups aren't nearly as easy as everybody thinks they are. It's not a problem to make push-ups quite challenging.

The only advantages of the bench press is that it's easy to perform low reps (if max strength is the goal), and that it's very simple to add weight from session to session.

So what are some good books for intermediate level people? Always thought SS was good.

>incorrect
Kek. How do you objectively measure strength increases from push-ups? 20 reps to 21 reps? You're NOT producing a larger force

And athleticism is a useless word here and only applies to genetics.

Google the bridge by barbell medicine. Make sure you've progressed passed the novice phase

What the fuck are you talking about? This is quite literally the number 1 suggested guide given to anyone and everyone who has any question about lifting anywhere.

>20 reps to 21 reps? You're NOT producing a larger force
That doesn't mean it won't enable you to do so, though.

Strength is the ability to perform a force against an external resistance. Pretty simple.

Read

>these are the retards that perpetuate “SS is a meme” bullshit
Have you even read the book?

Maybe, but you're not measuring and therefore guessing. Bench presses showcase strength increases which you can measure

Don't try arguing with ss guy he's either trolling or retarted. My problem with its followers is they look at powerlifting like it is the end all off fitness. Powerlifting is decent but so is calisthenics or sprinting or sport. Find me someone that's an elite sprinter or can do handstand push-ups and compare there overall athletic ability to someone that only does the big 3 and they would all be strong in their domain

So are we talking about training or showcasing strength? It's not really the same thing.
Say a guy built his strength using bodyweight exercises and did a 1RM attempt on the bench press every 2nd week to gauge his progress. Would that make the bench press superior? Hardly.

I'm not hating on the bench press, user. All I'm saying is that most exercises have their uses, and it's silly to be emotionally attached to some of them. Just pick the best tool for the job.
Obviously if I want to increase my maximal strength, the bench press is an excellent choice. But that doesn't make push-ups suck in every imaginable scenario (which I know isn't really what you said, but still)

The single biggest lie the fitness industry has managed to spawn is that strength does not matter for a natty lifter, when, in fact, strength has a direct correlation to physique in natties. A natty lifter cannot get big on a split or on SS because there is simply not enough time. A split would have you progress at a fraction of the rate a full body routine would and SS is meant for beginners and no beginner is big. It is only through lifting increasingly heavy weights (either in regards to volume, intensity, or just plain load), adapting to the stimulus, eating and recovering that a natural lifter will grow big. The second you stop moving forward is the second you stop growing as a natty. No one is going to hit a sickening physique while benching 205 or deadlifting 325.

Practical Programming for Strength Training

So should or shouldn't I be following SS? I've just recently started going to the gym again and had grown considerably weaker than when I stopped. I've been doing SS and doubled the weight I could do in a week going every weekday. Is it fine because I'm rusty? Or should I look into another beginner program?

If your'e trying to teach them the basics and build strength and strength endurance...then higher rep lower weight is more important.

A beyond barebones lifting program is something you give to people who are relatively active and will understand how it helps them in an activity and know enough about their body to do what they need.
Not untrained naifs who know fuck and all about lifting.
It just sets them up for failure.

I mean, there is no good reason to maximize strength gains as quickly as possible by adding to the bar every single time.
There is no actual benefit in doing this.
It's just an ego stroke that will end when they hit the wall. And they will physically and psychologically hit that wall hard as fuck and not be able to or have any idea of how to continue.

do you want to be only good at low bar squats? do SS. do you want literally anything else? do literally anything else.

[spoiler]But I like doing squats[/spoiler]

So I should just look into another beginners program instead? Would one of the other two recommended beginner programs in the sticky suffice?

Relative strength and intensity matters a bit more then volume overload in regards to weight lifted.
If you understand my meaning.

It was revealed months ago that lifting to near or complete failure in a 3-5x 8-12 setxrep range gave you greater mass gains, equal strength gains, and strength endurance.

5x5 is optional and not really needed.

alphadetiny's novice program, replace box squats with standard squats. jonnie candito's novice routines are fine as well.

The Starting Strength program was designed mostly to get highschool football players big and brutally strong, and for this purpose it works very effectively. Rippetoe's form advice is also excellent.

I personally ran SS as a novice and became one of the strongest guys in my gym, but my lower body was overdeveloped. Plenty of women loved my massive legs though.

Now I run an intermediate powerbuilding program with equal volume for each of these 5 lifts - squat/deadlift/bench/press/chins and have a very balanced physique.

I also have a suspicion Rippetoe is gay and loves to train young boys to be power bottoms. There is not much point listening to anything he has said recently because he let the fame go to his head and has a massive god complex.

>thrice a week will have much more effect than benching once or twice a week.
Why do people ignore the fact that bench + OHP essentially use all the same muscles and compliment each other?

Cool thanks. I'll have to try one of them when I go tomorrow.

because they fucking dont. there are weeks where you do a total of 15 fucking reps of bench on SS. a lift that more than any loves volume. thats why you see newfags on SS squatting 350 yet with sub 2 plate bench.

I'd say absolute intensity matters more than relative unless you're using some sort of periodization. Can you link the study you're talking about that says lifting to failure in the 8-12 range is better? I highly doubt someone working to failure in that range is going to progress as quickly as someone doing 5s, assuming all other variables are the same and reps are the only thing being manipulated.

OHP is a front delt limited movement that doesn't stress the triceps as much (because lol front delt limited, cannot be loaded as heavy) and only hits the clavicular head of the chest slightly

so when you bench 4.5 sets a week on average, that's 4.5 working sets for your fucking chest in a low rep range - next stop benchletville, population (You), and things are only marginally better for your triceps

this

365/205/485 end of SS

>assuming all other variables are the same and reps are the only thing being manipulated.
what...?

>365/205/485 end of SS
Jesus user I'm sorry.

your squat should be much higher than bench

Only redeeming quality from this book is being flammable.

>485 DL in 3-6 months
Hello orangutan

>thats why you see newfags on SS squatting 350 yet with sub 2 plate bench.
except this doesn't happen. I was benching 3x5x108kg at the end of SS, and squatting 3x5x148kg. only internet warriors who never tried the routine say SS doesn't work for bench

because they were too retarded to do accessories lul

It does happen but here is how it actually goes.
>Some 6'0 60-70 kg starts the program
>He starts making gains on the squat probably also quarter repping left and right
>Deadlift with catback
>Bench even the biggest idiot knows you have to touch the chest and you can actually feel your chest being touched rather than squat depth
>You end up with a kid sub 2pl8 bench, 3pl8 quarter squat and 3-4pl8 catback deadlift

because people did it without reading the book and: got injured, did gomad while fat and got fatter, didn't do any accessories and got a t-rex body, expected too much in a short time and got mad
don't obsess too much over a routine that will last maximum 9 months, it takes years to be strong and look good

Name a better introduction to training book for beginners

Second month of SS and I have already torn two pants and rest barely fit anymore

i can give myself a reach around
didn't look as t-rex as you might imagine

you can follow clarence' his lifting career on his youtube channel he pretty much always looked the same hes just bigger now

unless you think he was taking something since he was a kid lmao

are you actually suggesting clarence kennedy is natural

if so wew lad you need to lift for a few more years before you post here again

why do you retards think SS is a program

its just basic compounds with LP are you guys fkin retarded

Strongest Shall Survive: Bill Starr

I am saying that he used to be natural, probally only took something the last couple of years

you can literally follow his progress on youtube once he came back from the knee injury his lifts exploded i think he started taking something then

Naturally Enhanced (TM)

>only took something the last couple of years
lol
awww
and the easter bunny and goes to santa's workshop every year on new years for tea and cookies.

ok at what point did he start taking something then tell me, are you telling me he was on steroids when he was squatting 170kg for a 1rm?

list your lifts you must be a dyel

Well before 2011 from what I'm seeing. Probably a bit of tren or something.
Not on heavy ass doses of test and probably some growth like he is now,

SS is inspired by Bill Star, isn't based on Football and is geared towards novice lifters. Try again

this was in 2010

>youtube.com/watch?v=9Uuw7Kyyi9M
for sure dude he was on doses of tren and test for this 170kg squat ahah

so youre one of those /fraud/ weaklings how do you feel when the're natty guys stronger than ye

It's a direct rip off of the strongest shall survive and it's aimed at highschool football players.

SS is a short term peaking program for already athletic football playing highschool boys.
Not a general weight lifting program.

Oh, well he started after 2010 then.

By the way, I could squat 315 the first time I ever tried at 16 and I only did bodyweight squats running and dicking around in da woods

But she isn't doing the SS version. There is no resting half way in the SS version. You accelerate from the floor all the way up.

What? You know SS is strength training, right user? If you DO want to strength train, it's great.

Is that really what the fucking problem is?

>Here's how you prepare a good steak.
>YEAH WELL NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO EAT STEAK, SHITLORD!

That sums up 99% of complaints about SS. If you faggots don't want to eat steak, don't go to a steak house. If you go to a steak house, don't complain about steak being on the menu and not pizza.